Removing Talons Silence in PBE

King Odin·Sep 22, 2014·1 votes·999 views

Yes as the title suggests this is a possibility that is currently being done in the PBE Server.

Cutthroat [ E ] Now slows the target by 99% for 0.25 seconds No longer silences.

Now I think this will kill Talon dead in lane as his 1 second silence is his only safety when going into a fight or attacking a single target. Without his silence he will be killed in lane so badly by counter burst champions like Syndra or Annie. He needs some safety especially as the majority of mid laners have some sort of cc of their own. Also don't think I have forgotten about his ultimate. Which unfortunately would be countered like Akali simply by a pink ward of upgraded sweeping lens. Do you think Riot should remove his silence?

18 Comments

WheatloafSep 22, 20143 votes

Similar to LeBlanc, the silence has to go. If he absolutely needs more safety (something which assassins aren't usually known for), then they should find a better way to give it too him. So long as he remains playable, though, it's probably best to wait until he gets reworked.

Wildfire GoGSep 22, 20141 votes

Bullshit if he cutthroats and get's CCD because hes trying to pick off a squishy hero with a stun, then he'd be unviable as an assasin because he couldnt assasinate people. he would have to use his ult RIGHT as he hit cuttrhoat, making his standard kill combo broken

WheatloafSep 22, 20142 votes

There are ways to give him more safety other than making his target incapable of acting.

King OdinSep 22, 20141 votes

Leblanc was high mobility and high burst damage that's why her longgggggg silence had to go. She was way to safe. Giving her target no chance at all.

WheatloafSep 22, 20142 votes

They did mention Talon around that time, though, saying something about getting rid of patterns with no counter play. I'm not saying Talon has none, killing a melee assassin is mostly a matter of CC, but it feels pretty bad to have your spells made unusable because someone hit a button on you. Especially since he will immediately proceed to burst your face off. The fact that your allies can do something about it is small consolation.

Wildfire GoGSep 22, 20142 votes

While i do agree that talon could use a small nerf, its not the silence that needs to be gone. Noxian diplomacy has a 6 second bleed time. that's pretty long, and i found some builds that make his Q more powerful than ignite. Your basic abilities being as strong as a summoner spell is a bad thing.

While i do see it being ok with champs like tristy and shaco, it's because they need it, because tristy doesnt have the best movement speed and shaco is pretty squishy. For talon's Mini-flash, its all part of the assasin playstyle, like kat's shunpo or shaco's decieve.

WheatloafSep 22, 20141 votes

The long bleed time actually tones it down a bit, because it gives extra time for heals and regen to come in. It doesn't apply Grievous Wounds, so those can more easily negate it. Summoner Spells aren't really supposed to be all-powerful. They're just a little extra something when you need it. A good example of something outclassing a Summoner by miles is Cho'Gath's Feast. 1k true damage to monsters, plus AP scaling, right from level 6? It's worse than trying to outsmite Nunu.

Wildfire GoGSep 22, 20141 votes

Well, keep in mind that its on a 10 second cooldown.

Wildfire GoGSep 22, 20141 votes

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WheatloafSep 22, 20141 votes

Okay, I see what you're getting at, now. I usually play low-mobility champs, so I can understand losing that 10% damage hurts. Only suggestion I can really give, then, because I still agree with removing the silence, is to try to space out casts of Rake and Cutthroat, for maximum slow duration. I don't know if that would be long enough to get the same combo off, and it would definitely leave more time for your target to react, but I imagine it's the best we can hope for, right now.

But, given he's in line for a rework somewhere down the line, what would you, as a Talon main, be looking for in such?

Wildfire GoGSep 22, 20141 votes

For his rework, I want his passive to be better. I like his passive, dont get me wrong, but i would really like it if it was something like "talon does +20% damage against targets with no allies of their type (champ, minion, monster) near them" it would compliment his single-target focus style. for his ult, i would really like it to retain his stealth, but again, have a more 1-man takedown style.

ValyrianBladeSep 22, 20141 votes

Isn't the whole identity of talon that he is an assassin that damages everyone around his target? Don't you rush tiamat? If they change a champion they typically focus on their identity, and talons is that he has the burst to down a squishy, but also do considerable damage to the whole enemy team while doing so. Your goal isn't to get 1 kill then get out alive, it's to get 1 kill and damage the rest of their team sufficiently so that even though you get picked off after the kill your team can just clean up the fight afterwards easily.

I think that's a really niche playstyle and what makes talon a huge team asset...

Wildfire GoGSep 22, 20141 votes

My playstyle is very different from yours. I play bot talon, asking for a support with some form of hard CC, so i can easily get kills with my high burst. once my level is high enough, i rotate getting tons of kills, allowing me to assist in fights late, although not really getting alot fo direct kills.

Wildfire GoGSep 22, 20141 votes

I'm a talon main, and let me tell you something. Getting hit by CC after cutthroat isn't the reason i dislike this change. His passive, mercy deals +10% more damage if the target is under crowd control. The combo is-- Cutthroat, apply silence Rake, apply slow 1 basic attack Noxian diplomacy to get that reset and maxamize damage Shadow assault

those two attacks and Q are going to do 10% less damage unless we apply another bit of CC via an item, but u wouldnt want to build an item that applies that because u would waste one slot.

That's the big reason why talon players hate this change.

One more thing-- silence is considered soft CC, so its a miniscule buff because of the silence itself. I dont really care if the silence is removed, it's still good for taking down most targets, asside from heavy peelers and mages, i just want my kill combo to be broken ;-; The assasin role is dying, i dont know why riot is doing it.

King OdinSep 22, 20142 votes

They are applying a 99% Slow instead of the Silence.

Wildfire GoGSep 22, 20141 votes

That doesn't fix the problem. No matter how slow ezreal is, he can always press E and immediatley disengage. Here's a list of all the champs who can disengage with a direct dash, not counting inderect dashes like satchel charge