@Riot What exactly do you want Teemo to do now?

SlyTactician ·11/11/2016, 2:33:27 AM·49 votes·3,287 views

Yes, we get it - Teemo is Satan and is annoying to lane against. Also it's a common thing for folks to tilt whenever they see a Teemo either on the enemy team or even one's own team. However, the biggest reason for this is due to the fact that Teemo is losing more and more of his kit every year with the biggest nerf being the addition of the new item 2055 control ward. This item not only reveals traps, but also DISABLES traps for the range it covers.

Even in your own official preaseason video, you make a big mention of this as well: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=177&v=DZC_Zvo5HUI) (@2:57). For those unaware, this item works like a Pink Ward, but can also cause traps to become completely useless and enemy players can even walk over Teemo shrooms/Jhin traps/etc without taking any effects while the ward is active. It has the same price as the pink (75 g) and up to 3 can be carried by EACH member of the team.

In addition to item 3341 and item 3364 , the new active for item 3147 also provides true vision of wards and traps including Teemo shrooms as well. Altogether, combine this with the nerfs Teemo's shrooms received in Patch 5.15 where his shrooms were shortened to having a duration of 5 minutes with the compensation of bouncing his mushrooms - Teemo has heavily lost his map control pressure he once had in the game and AP Teemo in general has taken a big hit as his shrooms are even more unreliable than ever before.

Additionally, on-hit Teemo also took a hit this preaseason with the changes of the Fervor of Battle mastery. As quoted from another Teemo player of the TeemoTalk subreddit:

> Old Fervor of Battle (@lv 18): 8 stacks, (max of) 112 bonus on-hit dmg > New Fervor of Battle (@lv 18): 10 stacks, (max of) 60 bonus AD

On-hit damage has also been reduced and Teemo's already low scaling AD damage makes this build also nerfed as well.

While Teemo's passive (Guerrilla Warfare - formerly Camouflage) got a change so he cannot be detected by Control Wards while invisible, he is still revealed by any skill shots that hit him briefly by showing a shimmer of where he is. While a buff to his passive, it's also not reliable to use when in combat when he can slightly revealed. Regardless, this is the only part of his kit that can be considered a buff if anything.

Altogether, TL; DR - Teemo in general has pretty much lost his ult thanks to the control wards which both reveal and disable any shrooms it spots along with the already existing sweepers/oracles and now the duskblade active as well. On-hit Teemo has also taken a hit with fervor changes as well.

So what we Teemo players are wondering is how do we exactly adapt to this? If Teemo's shrooms are so toxic to the game, why not give him a mini rework to actually give him more utility in his kit? His Blind has always been consistent along with his E, but Teemo's W has been a very unreliable tool in escaping ganks considering how Teemo is meant to be a lane bully. A small movement speed buff which while cannot be lost when attacked, Teemo's passive movement speed from W is lost if hit by any attack. With his ult being more unreliable than ever, it's difficult to see what Teemo can now provide for any team really. As a Swift Scout, even take a look at Teemo's mobility on his profile page and notice how low it is compared to many other champs.

This is a discussion many of us Teemo players have had in the TeemoTalk subreddit, and something we really hope to get some insight about Teemo from Riot if anything. Many joke about how useless Teemo is in the game, but this trend is only going to continue with how easily countered Teemo is at this point of time. If Teemo's kit is so toxic, can we expect to see some changes to at least be done so some more utility can be added to the rest of his kit other than his ult? Teemo feels extremely lackluster when compared to many of the newer champs, and is truly a relic of the past with how outdated his kit is becoming by this point of time. Low teamfighting ability which only is furthered hampered by his ult losing even more relevancy (oracles and sweepers were already a big blow, but these new vision tools go all out to disabling them altogether) while Teemo's dueling aspects are getting even more nerfed.

Yes, we Teemo players know that Teemo has a lot of hate; however, this is why we'd truly appreciate a response from any Rioter in regards to what plans you have for Teemo at this point of time. He's considered even more of a joke pick in recent days and that's no surprise considering how much of his kit has become so nerfed over the years. Is there anything coming up for Teemo? He's an odd hybrid of a marskmen/mage/assassin which pretty much excel at none of them due to the nature of his kit and really has little identity in any team comp at this point of time. Perhaps he needs a VGU; however, the swift scout could use some form of changes to at least be considered more of a serious pick than being a pick that is only going to get more and more unreliable as time goes on.

For those that read this, thanks again. I'm expecting Teemo hate comments as a result of his status, but that's to be expected from his character. There's no denial that he's an annoying champ to deal with. However, the aspect of seeing any champ being left to literally have a portion of their kit be almost useless and countered so easily is just saddening to watch and I (along with other Teemo players) due hope to get some word in regards to Riot's thoughts about Teemo in the upcoming preseason.

Teemo

51 Comments

Pupel11/11/2016, 3:00:58 AM10 votes

Teemo deffinatly needs some quality of life love with how easy it is to sweep these days it makes sense to revert the shroom duration change or allow him to throw his shrooms the max distance at rank 1 so he can actualy be a scout

Great Ozymandius11/11/2016, 7:17:38 PM7 votes

They should allow him to retain invisibility for 2 seconds after moving. And if he stops moving, he does not get revealed, thus allowing him to creep up on his enemy.

LemurMonster11/11/2016, 10:36:48 AM6 votes

This is getting frustrating... I dont know what they are thinking tbh really. I simply wish they gave him a big rework now. He really needs it. a full VGU & more. why havent they did so with him? Out of all the champs out there. he needs it the most.

It sucks.. all my champs I main, had gotten hit this coming season..

Truly Prideful11/11/2016, 5:41:24 PM6 votes

Yeah they need to give Teemo a little love after all of the changes. I would revert the duration changes to his shrooms to start off because there are so many things countering them now. I've been wondering if it would be interesting if he could attack his shrooms to blow them up like GP does. It would let him even use his disabled shrooms as bait. Other than that maybe some ratio buffs since his keystone is gone.

Impish Yordle11/11/2016, 3:06:05 AM5 votes

Not to mention Hextech Revolver got nerfed and AD champions get yet another aggressive MR item. Shrooms have basically neither map-control nor combat effectiveness anymore. Oracles and Duskblade along with control wards will clear the map even more and reactive control wards will counter Teemo's ult in combat situations harder than they countered Akali's W. They cannot even serve as a distraction that enemies have to walk around anymore.

Can Riot please answer us what the deal is with Teemo? Are there changes planned? Are there potential reworks planned? Is there something going on that we don't know about? This is getting frustrating...

Bellows11/11/2016, 5:34:48 PM5 votes

Riot's Business Strategem: *Release Long Desired Satan Skin for Teemo

*Nerf Teemo

*Everyone Plays Teemo in Flex Que to Lose Placements

*Keep the Same Pros In Professional Play

*Shake Hands with Leader of the Illuminati

fcukteemo11/11/2016, 10:16:42 PM4 votes

As the person with prolly the most teemo games played....forrestwhitaker. all of this.....^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Is the best question? With over 8k games on the light side, ive done every build ever. I wanna know riot. What do we do?

GarthBrooksXD11/11/2016, 5:42:33 PM4 votes

I think control wards and plants just need to be removed and smite restored to its previous state. All these anti-vision tools have just made it easier to be an assassin and exacerbate the problem of assassins having no counter-play because you have no idea when they are coming since it is so bloody easy to make the map grey now.

MagikarpIsBoss11/11/2016, 11:05:09 PM4 votes

Being an Ex-Teemo main (I still play him, but not as much as I used to) I really think he should get some sort of rework. His W and Ulti should be changed. However, when ever people talk about changing his ult, people always say that "this changes his identity".

People dont understand that people who actually play teemo WANT his shrooms to be changed. Whether they buff it in some way or just out right remove it for more utility, that is something that Teemo players actually to happen. As you said, his shrooms are getting even more useless each season. I wish they would just fix Teemo's kit and make it more closer to his real theme. One thing I hope that they keep with him if he does get a VGU is the ability to build anyway he wants. Pretty much every build is possible, and thats what people love about teemo. Riot just needs to make him more useful.

rho5711/13/2016, 12:36:24 PM3 votes

Aaaand still not a single comment from Riot.

FL4MEB4N11/12/2016, 8:48:52 PM3 votes

Riot ??? Where or u???

Skullion12311/11/2016, 6:05:03 PM2 votes

I think that the new jungle changes are better than anticipated, but the item 2055, item 3147, and item 3364 trap-disabling need to be reworked.

What if they revealed traps and disabled vision but not the effect of the item? So they wouldn't give vision but if you blindly walked over one, it would detonate and give vision of whoever is being hit by the DoT like normal, but the shrooms themselves didn't give vision while under oracle's or control ward?

ThiloughNA11/15/2016, 3:37:40 PM2 votes

I play a lot of Teemo, mosty jungle but also top. I try all kind of builds, and I believe Teemo's identity must be strengthened as a swift scout and an occasional camper. Being quick and elusive, giving vision, forcing the enemy to sweep every bush, that's his thing. Some suggestions to achieve that:

  • Nearby wards and visible champions are revealed when Guerrilla Warfare kicks in.
  • Noxious Trap vision range doubles over its 5 minutes lifetime.
  • Teemo enters camouflage for Move Quick duration if it was cast while invisible.
  • Active component on Toxic Shot: hop and bounce on a nearby armed Noxious Trap, much like Gnar on units. Short range, long jump, short cooldown.
  • Passive component on Noxious Trap: every 3000/2000/1000 units travelled, Teemo's bag overflows and drops a visible mushroom with 1 HP and 250 unit radius vision. After 4/3/2 minutes it grows into a regular invisible Noxious Trap which lasts 1/2/3 minutes.
Teemo Shroom11/12/2016, 9:53:28 AM2 votes

PLS PLS PLS Riot! take a look at teemo now!item 3070 item 3151 He got hit so hard with the nerf hammer that he is almost unplayable in the new season. I know its Teemo but i really love the little dude and really, i am thinking, maby it is time for a new main :( Give him a new Ultimate or give him some buff. Anything so he can be played semi ok.

A Basic Island11/12/2016, 2:50:06 AM2 votes

they want him to sit in a brush stealth for forever

not in game ofc, in spirit

Shadow Hazard11/11/2016, 3:57:23 PM2 votes

I think a great change that would make teemo much better is to make the shrooms arm instantly upon cast, so at least it can be used reactively in a fight at least after all the nerfs that have come into place that ruin their ability to be trap mines.

sobi99912/4/2016, 6:55:54 AM1 votes

Teemo = Shrooms. it is his signature move. It's been reduced to nothing and the excuse people make is " just build AD teemo". No you retards, that way all of his abilities become useless except W, which is pretty useless anyway. He can't 1v1 effectively for a prolonged period nor can he team fight. His sole purpose is to scout and provide vision and use element of surprise using his mushrooms/stealth. Does anyone disagree? Also ,he does not have a strong laning phase. It's just because he is played top where champs are mostly meele and rely on AA alot for damage which his blind negates. Play him mid and get wrecked.

Lastly people, he doesn't need rework, the trinkets need rework. I don't want rito to fk him over again with a rework and then say " we buffed him" but in reality it was a nerf. I am just waiting for them to release a new skin for him maybe then we'll see rito help teemo.

The Blue Rajah11/11/2016, 6:03:56 PM1 votes

Duskblade doesn't give truesight, that got changed. Now it just disables wards (without revealing them) and has no effect on traps.

Requiemsfire11/11/2016, 11:50:57 PM1 votes

Here's the thing, While teemo might be countered easily by trinkets, control wards and other revealing effects but if those effects weren't in place Teemo would pretty much run rampant, players would be effectively left to guess where teemos traps are which are basically invisible and deal instant damage while delivering a slow CC. Essentially his kit needs changing and is very unhealthy in many ways but I doubt Riot will because of his popularity and iconic value.

fcukteemo11/12/2016, 4:26:38 AM1 votes

NOT A RIOT COMMENT YET!?!?!?

Sozan511/12/2016, 2:02:09 PM1 votes

I feel like this is not about changing Teemo, but about changing vision.

I already wrote my opinion here, as well as proposed changes, so read up if you are interested (the topic also got 20 views, which is nice xD).

Irelia Bot11/12/2016, 2:05:08 PM1 votes

Clearly they want him to take Fresh Blood and Greenfather's and poke the enemy top every 9 seconds and make them completely useless and oppressed.

abbbez11/13/2016, 12:50:49 PM1 votes

Just remove the "disabling nearby enemy traps" all together, it suffices enough that you can see them. Like why do they even disable wards to begin with. they should also increase the cost to 100g while they are at it.

Terozu11/13/2016, 1:21:07 PM1 votes

I build him as an anti tank lane pusher, item 3115 , item 3085 , item 3146 , item 3124 , item 3153 item 3020 not in that order

fcukteemo11/24/2016, 2:42:50 PM1 votes

@RIOT

Handy Sandy 11/11/2016, 2:52:03 AM1 votes

Then stop building teemo to rely 100% on his shrooms using half if your inventory just for your ult while splitpushing with a zzrot, build him to make more use of toxic shot. Use his ult for either self peel, waveclear, or just zoning. Yea he has a bunch of those counter items, but if you're clever they aren't going to catch them all. Don't clump them up in one big area where they'll be easily taken out, spread em out in the entrances of the jungle, near enemy towers, etc where people wouldn't expect.