This Game has way to much Damage

Swain On CoKayn·Jan 8, 2020·93 votes·19,422 views

Everybody in this community know, that a fed Assassin can kill you in a blink of an Eye. Sometimes or rather Often under a Second. The average Person has a reaction time from 0,2 too 0,4 seconds. And your expected to make a Button Press in this time window. It was possible, way earlier (looking at you season 5 Crit Rengar), but it wasnt the norm. Champs like Rengar or Syndra got famous for their 1shots, because it was very Rare to see such a Fast Kill. Not today. You get halve healthed, before you even think about the enemys engage. Even the players, that are delievering the Combo are suprised how fast they killed the enemy. This should definitly be Changed. Every Base Value, Scaling, Rune or any Kind of number should be reduced. It would prolong the Games longer and would provide the Game a way calmer flow.

I want to hear some Thoughts..

173 Comments

deathninja2004Jan 8, 202038 votes

yup riot knows everybody likes urf so they r slowly transitioning the actual normal game mode into urf but the loyal players who didnt like urf are now getting urf shoved up they ass and they need to like it or not because riot knows cry baby never leave the game or quit

Exodus247Jan 8, 20203 votes

Thats not the reason, i could tell you the real main reason but id most likely be banned because 'cant say anything bad against big brother' That should give you a hint

The thigh guyJan 8, 202022 votes

I find it extremely annoying that riot is killing off a huge portion of its original loyal player base to appease the Internet cafe market.

While I do see that they are going to make more money this way, I think it will kill the game. That demographic swaps games so insanely frequently that death is almost certain.

Of course this coming from someone who used to play ALOT of jinx, back when hyperscaling was a thing and late game was minute 35 not minute 12.

Exodus247Jan 9, 20203 votes

Oh it will, people are already furious over some patch changes, and if they keep doing this, people are just gonna hemorage out because they (and frankly I) wont stand for another year of this bullshit and ignorinng everyone for $$$

KnightLakegaJan 9, 20206 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8eknrpmP,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2020-01-08T23:40:49.553+0000)

I find it extremely annoying that riot is killing off a huge portion of its original loyal player base to appease the Internet cafe market.

While I do see that they are going to make more money this way, I think it will kill the game. That demographic swaps games so insanely frequently that death is almost certain.

Of course this coming from someone who used to play ALOT of jinx, back when hyperscaling was a thing and late game was minute 35 not minute 12.

Problem is that still these game devs don't get it that the internet cafe players are the ones who barely buy skins as well.. yes there's mroe of them, but most of them dont buy skins they're just looking for a free game to waste time on...

Yes they are killing league.

AdononJan 9, 202010 votes

Longer games with longer fights would certainly allow more talent to shine; if the game was longer we could see some really fancy plays.

Josh SandJan 8, 20209 votes

One thing that I really hate is that, from the opponent's point of view, there's almost literally no strategic nuance between the assassins, when defending against them.

Before it used to make sense that you would want to know about the assassins ans when their burst windows were.

Like I remember laning against Zed when i used to Mid, and paying really close attention to his cooldowns, making sure I was keeping myself protected.

Nowadays it literally doesnt fucking matter what state his cooldowns are in, because Im just dead in a single rotation.

So why do I even need to bother keeping up with assassin kits and changes? Because if an assassin gets into range and decides they want to kill me, then Im just fucking dead, and then its in the hands of my teammates.

There used to be a legitimate art in gaining kill threat on your opponent without them realizing it, but that part of the game is one of the many forgotten ghosts of LoL's past fun.

GigglesOJan 8, 20207 votes

This thread should actually get more discussion than it currently is. Its currently a very sad state of affairs.

Stróc DúnmharúJan 8, 20206 votes

See, here's the thing. You want to prolong the games with this change, which I agree would be better.

The problem is that Riot DOESN'T want longer games. Look at the changes introduced this off season:

Possibility of getting 2 rift heralds, which can help take out more turrets faster, and thus end the game faster
Dragon Soul, which gives a huge power spike to the entire team that get's it, helping them to close out the game
Elder Dragon, which is just flat out bullshit in its execute function and causes the team with it to have a massive advantage in team fights to, guess what, finish games off... and also crowds out champions who are SUPPOSED to want to fight at lower health values, like Olaf for example, but that's just a problem of shortsightedness Riot's part

They literally just added a bunch of additional "objectives" to the game that help end the game faster. Baron was already a huge advantage for the team that get's it, since they basically get to push each lane with impunity and the other team can't push back. Now you've got even more power that can just straight up end the game, and before anyone tries to say that Dragon Soul or Elder Dragon are "late game objectives", no, they aren't. They can be claimed before the 30 minute mark, and make comebacks even harder to achieve than they already were in Riot's enforced snowball meta.

Now yes, obviously none of those additions just automatically end the game when someone gets them, but the team who is ahead when they become available has a huge advantage in claiming them, which favors snowballing.

The BEST change they made this pre-season? Well, actually it was removing item 3161 ... but the NEXT best change this pre-season was turret plates giving less gold. Now, personally, I think turret plates should give NO gold at all, and should simply exist to make taking turrets harder in the early portion of the game. But then again, that's because I think the lane pressure and wave control of taking a turret is reward enough for claiming that "objective"

tl;dr - Riot wants games to end faster, which is easily proven by how many additional rewards there are to be had for the team that get's a lead. As if having more items and more levels for more base stats wasn't enough of an advantage.

ZullarJan 9, 20206 votes

I don't get it. Damage Burst and Mobility are way out of control. There hasn't been much effort to bring it under control either.

Garson211Jan 9, 20205 votes

DrMundo Sion Malphite Maokai Shen ATM are useless as a tank compare to season 1-8 version.Now they die in max 10 sec so they swap to dmg builds.Its all about selling game for china market where ppls like this fast one shot bullshiet.

Runes: Why so many of them are focused only at dmg? Why just not more slow maybe root ar heal runes insted of only "after 3 aa you deal extra dmg" jzs

ProphetOfDravenJan 10, 20202 votes

Mundo can't build damage though, he has no scalings except for health scalings and an insanely low AP scaling on a single ability.

Düff McWhalenJan 8, 20204 votes

"Game has too much damage!"

Laughs in DrMundo Chogath Galio Malphite Sion Shen

The thigh guyJan 8, 202017 votes

[{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8eknrpmP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2020-01-08T23:38:31.034+0000)

"Game has too much damage!"

Laughs in

*laughs even harder in Vayne Fiora item 3153 item 3035 item 3071 item 3135 *

wolviusJan 9, 20202 votes

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8eknrpmP,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2020-01-08T23:41:53.652+0000)

*laughs even harder in *

you forgot the item 3151 with item 3135 7.5% of target's maximum health as magic damage over 3 seconds as there is probably some slow or cc applied on the target.

LordGeovanniJan 9, 20201 votes

item 3089 item 1018 item 3031 too

The thigh guyJan 9, 20201 votes

{quoted}

too

Rabadons is meh now. It’s just a stat stick. Cloak of agility is also meh. And infinity isn’t even close to as strong as it used it be.

LordGeovanniJan 9, 20201 votes

Penetration items are also just stats sticks so are crit items Cloak of Agility represents crit items Crit is just a stat doubling a another stat. THe game is stats so just a stat stick is really powerful. they increase the overall damage to make tanking less effective its the same result as Penetration but going about it a diffrent way.

The thigh guyJan 9, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Penetration items are also just stats sticks so are crit items Cloak of Agility represents crit items Crit is just a stat doubling a another stat. THe game is stats so just a stat stick is really powerful. they increase the overall damage to make tanking less effective its the same result as Penetration but going about it a diffrent way.

Penetration items aren’t just stat sticks. They flat out remove stats.

LordGeovanniJan 9, 20201 votes

so the stat is -xx stats to target STAT STICK

The thigh guyJan 10, 20201 votes

{quoted}

so the stat is -xx stats to target STAT STICK

Except it’s not just a stat stick. They lose a percentage that changes. -.- A stat stick is a static value that never changes. The percentage itself never changes, but the amount it reduces does change.

LordGeovanniJan 12, 20201 votes

Its just a stat stick writing it a different way doesnt change the fact of what it does. Rabadon's % itself doesnt change But the amount of extra ap it has does. (until mages cry enough to get it buffed.) As you your self called Rabadons a stat stick It does the exact same thing as Infinity edge void staff and black cleaver its just written a different way for a different stat,

[{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8eknrpmP,comment-id=0004000000010000,timestamp=2020-01-09T20:20:59.699+0000)

Rabadons is meh now. It’s just a stat stick. Cloak of agility is also meh. And infinity isn’t even close to as strong as it used it be.

HorseProofBaconJan 8, 20208 votes

[{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8eknrpmP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2020-01-08T23:38:31.034+0000)

"Game has too much damage!"

Laughs in

Umm...even mundo blows up with full armor stack and R activated against pretty much any ADC with a cookie cutter full build. Armor is little better than paper in the games current form.

Starcraft243verJan 9, 20201 votes

{quoted}

Umm...even mundo blows up with full armor stack and R activated against pretty much any ADC with a cookie cutter full build. Armor is little better than paper in the games current form.

So you mean Adc who are meant to deal with tanks melt tanks when they are full build. That's absolutely a nightmare, riot why are you doing things the right way ?

HorseProofBaconJan 9, 20204 votes

{quoted}

So you mean Adc who are meant to deal with tanks melt tanks when they are full build. That's absolutely a nightmare, riot why are you doing things the right way ?

The actual point was that no matter what a tank has, armor or not, early game or late, they blow up much faster than they should or used to. Not sure how long you've been playing, but there was a time when a tank could actually tank and take a few hits before they exploded.

consensuaI clownJan 10, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=Düff McWhalen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8eknrpmP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2020-01-08T23:38:31.034+0000)

"Game has too much damage!"

Laughs in

What was the last time you saw full tank Cho'gath, Malphite or Sion in your gamesx and there is obvious reason why people playing them as damage dealers.

HorseProofBaconJan 10, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=consensuaI clown,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8eknrpmP,comment-id=00040004,timestamp=2020-01-10T10:35:52.309+0000)

What was the last time you saw full tank Cho'gath, Malphite or Sion in your gamesx and there is obvious reason why people playing them as damage dealers.

It is very rare. I often feel I'm the only one that goes full tank with those champs anymore. Even though they fall apart in fights now, I still build them as tanky as I can.

spookdegraceJan 10, 20201 votes

How do they fall apart in fights? My mundos and shens are basically unkillable when they're full tank, maybe you're just playing them incorrectly and inefficiently?

HorseProofBaconJan 11, 20201 votes

{quoted}

How do they fall apart in fights? My mundos and shens are basically unkillable when they're full tank, maybe you're just playing them incorrectly and inefficiently?

Or you're playing against bad players perhaps?

spookdegraceJan 10, 20201 votes

Mundo Shen and Malph are the ones I usually seeing going full tank. Some Shens and Mundos go Steraks for the shield and titanic for the HP and extra damage it gives but even that's rare. Malphite, since the ult nerfs, pretty much has to go full armor now, and he still deals tons of damage. It's not uncommon for tank malphite building zero ap items to lead a game in damage, since his E and W scale armor and damage with armor percentage, and he's almost impossible to kill, and can just keep chunking damage out on peopleover time. Shen is also very hard to kill. I keep telling people tanks are stronger than ever but no one listens

Starcraft243verJan 14, 20201 votes

[{quoted}](name=consensuaI clown,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8eknrpmP,comment-id=00040004,timestamp=2020-01-10T10:35:52.309+0000)

What was the last time you saw full tank Cho'gath, Malphite or Sion in your gamesx and there is obvious reason why people playing them as damage dealers.

Almost always for malphite except when he's picked at low elo (because malphite ap is a low elo stomper and a high elo feeder) or in jungle:

https://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/Malphite

And for Sion I havent seen an AD sion in a while :

https://www.probuilds.net/champions/details/14

RyzeReworkJan 9, 20203 votes

I think you should go to another post about this theme because the boards has become saturated with this specific topic. As in terms of damage you say it's crazy that an assassin deletes somone. That's what assassins do?

3TWarriorJan 9, 20208 votes

assassins are opportunists, not guaranteed kills, though Riot has swayed that way for years now

Assassins are supposed to wait for the right moment to strike a weakened target to give a sudden death

instead, we get assassins ko'ing people almost instantaneously from 100% and able to pick and choose their target at leisure

RyzeReworkJan 9, 20201 votes

Only 3 assassins are in the top winrates for midlane the rest are mages as of last patch and the only one at the top is nocturne the other two barely make it by. In the new patch theres only 1 assassin in the top 10 winrates but it's too early to even use that information

3TWarriorJan 9, 20203 votes

win rates mean nothing without taking pick rate and ban rate into account

who are you better prepared to play against, the opponent you see 1 in 50 matches, or the opponent you see 1 in 10 matches? sometimes these figures get down to 1 in 100 matches or less...

There is a huge difference between a karthus and a cassiopeia after all, or a mordekaiser and a darius, despite these champions sharing classes

furthermore, i'm not sure which data or site you are using as things look even wackier than usual by checking u.gg

GigglesOJan 9, 20201 votes

I’d also think it’s worth mentioning, damage level is set by the class with highest damage. You can’t just have one class auto win on a dash dash dead basis...

They would be fine if there was better counterplay than just stay out of range.

I played ornn mid into talon yesterday, lane should have been a wash. He damn near nuked me several times. When he got close to death it was bye flips over wall...

RyzeReworkJan 9, 20201 votes

I mean the highest damage assassin ranks 22 and that's below a ton of mages twitch and illaoi

GigglesOJan 9, 20201 votes

I’m not even so sure that assassins win/pick rate is why these threads get made anymore. It surely should be part of the discussion. However I think that the reason why they get made are that it just isn’t fun playing against them.

I know I hate: 1)Getting nuked 2)High Mobility (aka low punishablity)

What do assassins do?

Screen wide gap close, nuke, get out... I mean they don’t all do that, but it sure seems like most of them do. Was fighting talon yesterday, won the game, still felt like shit that every time I was about to kill him, flip, and he was gone. Meanwhile, could I just leave if I was about to lose? Nope, sure couldn’t...

I personally may get a lot of hate for my view on assassins, but I think they in their current ultra safe, ultra high damage they have no place in this or any game.

I would like a disclaimer that I don’t think unkillable tanks, burst mages and blah blah blah is healthy either. I just want to promote actual middle ground balance.

RyzeReworkJan 10, 20203 votes

I feel like that's respectable. Noone likes being bad at league. Assassins capitalize on bad plays harder then any other class. In lane assassins dont just level three walk up to you and your dead. But if you miss a cc or use a defensive cooldown then your most likely going to die. Nobody likes dieing.

GigglesOJan 10, 20201 votes

Thats 100% it. Against a tank, especially levels 1-5 you can kite them, you can probably duel them, you might even just be able to walk/run away. Against an assassin it just feels like you die. It doesn't even matter if you do every time. We are all wired to remember the worst things about a champ.

I hate ezreal so much that if I get support with an ez as adc I have like a 95% loss rate I may as well dodge I have so many bad memories of teammates playing him that I mentally check out.

MasterDCloneJan 10, 20201 votes

Then it follows that tanks play in lanes where you don't lane against assassin's which is a common reason tanks go top and assassins mid because it leads to more fun matchups for all parties. Tanks vs an assassin is pretty rare unless the assassin goes top which is unlikely since less roaming, or the tank goes mid which is again weird considering their weak early

GigglesOJan 10, 20202 votes

no no no no

You completely misread into that. I think anything that can 100-0 you is toxic to the games, and assassins exemplify that. I picked ornn mid into talon because I knew I could turn it into a wash and not feed. I hate the current damage and feel it is toxic. It has nothing to do with the early vs late vs anything. Anything that 100-0s you in 1s or less is toxic.

Burst mages that do this are. Tanks that do this are. ADC's that do this are.

Stop thinking I'm only talking about assassins. The assassin concept is just flawed. to get in, get a kill, leave with impunity.

LordGeovanniJan 9, 20202 votes

As a supposedly risky class assassins shouldnt be in top winrates period or else it shows that they arent risky and are overtuned

RyzeReworkJan 9, 20201 votes

the top one is nocturne and why shouldnt they be balanced for a 50 percent winrate? that would be unfair?

LordGeovanniJan 9, 20202 votes

If your class is labled risky you should not be balanced for a 50% winrate whats risky about being able to win just as much as everyone else. at the same time you people say balanced for 50% win rate you will call a 48% win rate garbage but say a 52% winrate is fine.

AZ FrostJan 9, 20208 votes

Assassins' shouldn't delete someone from 0-100 in a blink of a eye. They were meant to have good positioning, wait for the time to strike the back-line in a fight, hit the target and get out. Usually when the target was AT LEAST 70% hp or less. Not this run at ur face, hit all the buttons and insta-kill. That makes the game a auto 4v5 and no room for counter-play. Stale as hell mate.

RyzeReworkJan 9, 20202 votes

Not really assassins use their burst to kill a target which would make the fight a 4v4. Not to mention the countless items that cause assassins to not one shot somone then they are stuck in the open item 3157 item 3047 item 3026 item 3046 . These items stop the assassinations in their tracks. And if an assassian is so far ahead/ your so far behind then they should 1 shot you. Assassins dont walk around with 0 items insta nuking people. As a level 6 zed I need almost 2k worth of ad before I can 100-0 a level 4 velkoz (this example is just a game a couple months ago)

3TWarriorJan 9, 20204 votes

ninja tabi may give armor but it is not an anti-assassin item. Neither is phantom dancer for that matter as it only reduces damage from a target you are able to auto attack

on to zhonya's and guardian angel

zhonya's has a cooldown of is it 90 seconds now? most assassin abilities have 10 to 20 seconds and allow the assassin to back away from a fight if things go wrong. Unless your team is composed of several hard crowd control characters with players that have good reflexes, the assassin can be in and out

guardian angel has a cooldown of 5 minutes. It may be superior to zhonya's in that its is activated automatically, but in both cases of protection, unless perfection occurs, the target will die anyway

by the way, how does 5(-1) v 5(-0) translate into 4v4 ? Most assassins have several methods of damage even after they've spent their largest cooldowns

spookdegraceJan 10, 20201 votes

Neither is phantom dancer for that matter as it only reduces damage from a target you are able to auto attack

How long has it been since you played league? Phantom dancer changed a year ago, it now grants a shield when you get low or bursted down.

3TWarriorJan 11, 20201 votes

yes and I mentioned that in another comment further down in this box's responses but did not edit the original. It is a detail among a deluge of constant changes...

our ISP abandoned our area, so if you want precision, around 4 years ago during season six. I recently logged in and wondered if there were some bugs as it looked like my champion roster had changed