What to do during a mid hard counter?

I am a Feminist··1 votes·710 views

This might be a nub question but here's the story; I was playing classic as Zed mid. I had Kat top, an afk top, tristana bot, and a jinx bot. So when we first join, I notice Lissandra, and I know that Liss counters Zed, so about the fourth level, I ask in team chat for a quick gank. Trist asks who to which I reply, "anyone who has gotten their trade done, so anyone who isn't busy please." Anyway no one comes till about level 6-ish, where kat finally decides to look at chat and come over to help me with the gank. At this point, I've barely hit like 40 cs and have my boots and the doran's blade... So I end up with like a 1/4 at level 8 and Trist assumes I'm feeding. Come level 10, My team is destroying towers while I farm because all I had was like a last whisper and un-enchanted boots of mobility. Anyway I point out in chat that we would have already had nexus if someone helped gank early game, as it wouldn't be a 3v5. Kat says that mid should be the one ganking and that top and bot aren't supposed to come down and help gank for mid. In agreement, Trist says stop lashing at your team because you suck at LoL so I just left at that point... Anyway, my question: should bot and top not help gank for mid like Kat said, even when facing counter champs? I mean I've helped gank for mid a lot and no one ever corrected my actions. Thanks in advance and sorry if I put this in the wrong board...

BTW: I didn't go afk I just shut off the laptop and fell asleep.

13 Comments

Wonderlands3 votes

There's no problems for top and bot to gank mid and they should if they can, it's a lot harder though due to the risk of their tower dying. Honestly, when you're countered like that, just try to do your best to farm and wait for the laning phase to be over. Also I disagree with your method of dealing with toxic people by AFKing.

Be Kind Rewind3 votes

Is everyone ignoring the fact that this guy quit the game after going 1-4 because his bot/toplaners didn't save him?

So Zed has a strong counterpick. Now you have to play the way Zed makes 90% of other mage midlaners play against him: hide back and farm under tower.

But instead, you feed Liss 1-4, blame your teammates, quit and go to sleep - then wake up and post on the forums about how you would have already won the game if your teammates won your lane for you? ...

Drunkèn Master2 votes

Seriously, i have to agree with this reply.

Kowe The Ewok2 votes

1.) Zed can ALWAYS farm savely due to being near ressourceless with spammable abilities. 2.) Being counterpicked in mid is no problem. The lane is too short to be completely denied (top however...) 3.) If you can't do anythign at lane consider roaming, or ganking the enemy jungler.

360D3GR3SS1 votes

Lissandra can counter zed, still a skill match up here but in Zed's favor IMO. I personally think the only champion in the entire game that blatantly counters Zed is Fizz, even then that is debatable. Honestly you should be beating Lissandra pre 6 because her long range is reliant on pushing and hitting creeps and she has bad mana problems early. Post 6 you can easily get her low and push her out of lane or all in her if she is low and you know you can survive the burst (even though her burst is small). Later don't even bother with her in team fights unless you KNOW she does not have her ultimate or Zhonyas (and maybe flash) and remember to save your ultimate till after you think she will use her escape E. Keep in mind her E's cooldown in lane and use it to your advantage if possible.

Fizz counters zed pretty easy because if he Ultis you and you try to dodge his fish with your ultimate he will just troll pole and land with more damage while dodging your ultimate. Fizz countering Zed is debatable because you can zone him super hard levels 1 and 2 and you can dodge fizz's initial ulti projectile with your ulti or flash.

It is not your fellow lanners responsibility to help you, although they do help sometimes, do not expect them to leave their lane to help you. Your jungler is really the only one who can help you if he is not preoccupied or wants to focus on getting you ahead.

Main Was Nerfed1 votes

Vlad counters him too.

I am a Feminist1 votes

That sounds all fine and dandy man but I bought Zed like two days ago and only got the time to play with him today, hell I'm still trying to master lining. Even so, I let them know before the match started that I was still learning Zed and that I'd prob need a gank if Lissandra is decent, she's the one champion I can't seem to get past unless I'm playing Panth or the player doesn't know the champion. Anyway, thanks for the advice.

ValyrianBlade1 votes

In general, you'd only really be able to ask for a remotely early gank from a jungler. You're not going to get one from a Lane, especially from a Lane other than mid, any time early because they don't have the waveclear to finish their wave then go help you and then return to Lane without missing too much cs or losing their tower.

On the other hand, in a bad mid matchup (with no jungler or a jungler that won't/can't gank) you can just play really defensively and farm, possibly even let her have your tower early (basically start mid game early) or alternatively just roam yourself and snowball another Lane. In general, if bot/top struggles then mid can roam to help, if mid struggles then mid can roam to help. Think of twisted fate playstyle (he'll loselosejust about every Lane matchup, but his ult let's him roam really well and snowball his teammates).

maikokk1 votes

kayle is the ultimate zed counter. zed just tower hugs and cries

360D3GR3SS1 votes

And he happily farms...You buy an early hex drinker you can beat her pretty easily.

Sow1 votes

tl;dr

But to answer the title, roam.

FarRockBF1 votes

I am an interesting bloke as I lane on a platinum level but play the game at a silver level. If you look at my match history you will see my KDA is almost always solid EVEN when I lose games. So I can offer some laining rules I follow very strictly:

  1. If I feel like I was counter-picked I NEVER try to trade. I farm from as far as I can.
  2. Once enemy is 1-2 kills up on me I ONLY farm by tower; yes even if it means losing 20 CS, that is hell-of-a-lot better than giving another 4 kills. Also, your team won't flame you.
  3. When/if the lane is totally lost and enemy can tower dive you; GO ROAM, Make other lanes win. But still, make sure to ping MIA whenever Liss is missing - that is STILL your responsibility!
Sow1 votes

{quoted}

I am an interesting bloke as I lane on a platinum level but play the game at a silver level. If you look at my match history you will see my KDA is almost always solid EVEN when I lose games. So I can offer some laining rules I follow very strictly:

  1. If I feel like I was counter-picked I NEVER try to trade. I farm from as far as I can.
  2. Once enemy is 1-2 kills up on me I ONLY farm by tower; yes even if it means losing 20 CS, that is hell-of-a-lot better than giving another 4 kills. Also, your team won't flame you.
  3. When/if the lane is totally lost and enemy can tower dive you; GO ROAM, Make other lanes win. But still, make sure to ping MIA whenever Liss is missing - that is STILL your responsibility!

I'm really tired of people overvaluing KDA.

  1. This is bad advice. You can outplay a counter. There are sometimes you don't want to try to trade, but to say that you should NEVER isn't right. It really depends on the situation. Being able to judge things on the fly is one thing that seperates silver from gold/platinum+

  2. Again, Depends on the situation.

  3. You shouldn't be waiting until you've lost lane to roam. Roam before you lose the lane, come back with gold advantage and win the lane.

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