And yet current malzahar is weaker than old malzahar. He was pretty busted right afterwards but now he is mediocre. A rework is supposed to make a champion more viable right? Yet I have no inclination to play malzahar now where I played old Malz quite a bit because he doesn't feel worth a pick.
Lugg4 votesWeaker?! He is the second most banned champ in the game right now and that's after the nerfs! I would hardly call that weaker since he was almost never banned before.
Arkale3 votesHe isn't being banned because he's strong, he's being banned because people don't know how to face his new kit.
Dehitay3 votes[{quoted}](name=Shadow Hawk2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8VMwreXy,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-06-25T01:34:08.104+0000)
He isn't being banned because he's strong, he's being banned because people don't know how to face his new kit.
He's being banned because his passive is more powerful than a banshee's veil and he gets it at level one, and a lot of mid lane champs rely on CC and quick burst to do their combos.
Arkale3 votesIt's like a powerful banshee's, but it is easier to break. Like I said, people just don't know how to face him/ don't want to learn.
Plus he has nearly no burst of his own, so it's not like that one second will kill you if you haven't broken it already.
The Great Divide2 votesWeaker?! He is the second most banned champ in the game right now and that's after the nerfs! I would hardly call that weaker since he was almost never banned before.
Honestly he is. He's just more frustrating to play against now than he was before (Which was like the opposite of Riot's goal). In terms of damage output it's much lower, in favor of sustained damage. Which is not the best, because malzahar is immobile and squishier, so he didn't want to have to sit in the fray for a sustained period of time.
Lugg1 votesHe doesn't have the same burst as before, but his overall damage is higher. Plus his survivability is insane now with that passive. Added together he is MUCH stronger than he was before.
I don't even like playing him now, pretty much zero challenge to win games on him.
L0ve Is Blue4 votesOh! I didn't knew old malzahar had over 55% winrate! Coz new malzahar does.
Railios3 votesHes weaker for sure. He can do some damage 1 on 1 against a stationary target with his voidlings but he cant siege and poke or push while roaming like he could before and its really hard to beat some champions he used to counter now because his burst is weak sauce.
A little Peepo2 votesHes weaker for sure. He can do some damage 1 on 1 against a stationary target with his voidlings but he cant siege and poke or push while roaming like he could before and its really hard to beat some champions he used to counter now because his burst is weak sauce.
That's because malz was meant to be a DoT mage not burst, poke, siege mage. Over all his upfront burst went down a bit but his overall damage was increased.
Have a Nice Game3 votesHow in the world do you justify trying to define Malzahar as a DoT mage in two thousand and fucking sixteen when for the past 5-6 years people have played him as a "burst, poke, siege mage" as you so call it.
Just cause the support main (according to what I saw on lolking) who led the update for malz said he is?
I call bs
A little Peepo1 votes[{quoted}](name=Weeaboo Sword,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8VMwreXy,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-06-25T05:45:44.742+0000)
How in the world do you justify trying to define Malzahar as a DoT mage in two thousand and fucking sixteen when for the past 5-6 years people have played him as a "burst, poke, siege mage" as you so call it.
Just cause the support main (according to what I saw on lolking) who led the update for malz said he is?
I call bs
Tbh most of his abilities are DoT and with the fact that he has his voidlings, we'll that should ring a bell that Riot wanted him as a DoT mage rather than another anime like burst. Even before the rework malz wouldn't exactly 100-0 you but would burn your hp with the aids and voidlings. I mean why else would people build liandries on him? You wouldn't exactly build liandries on annie, syndra or Veigar now would you? He had pretty strong DoT and he still has that but with a more reliable safety net and the ability to prolong his DoT if anything. Thing about malz before was that he was balanced around the fact that QSS or crucible existed but if those items didn't then malz would have been that one champion that would be pick or ban, he is still strong regardless.
Have a Nice Game3 votesHis voidlings were less numerous but stronger before the update. It actually gave ad malzahar purpose lane-wise because he could rip through towers. Now his voidlings not only do not multiply when hitting towers, but they are also one shotted by towers. The only use his voidlings are for now is for giving aoe champions gold and getting dragon/rift harald if the enemy team is stupid due to the 50% damage reduction on monsters.
Pre-rework malzahar wouldn't 100-0 people? Please. They reduced the burst on him BECAUSE he was pretty much insta killing people and they didn't like how it wasn't fun for the receiving party. The only people surviving were the tanky champions, which leads to the next point.
Malzahar's build was power and penetration. Liandry's added to pen you got from Sorcerer's Shoes and Runes to add up to over 30 to deal with squishy champions. The DoT portion of Liandry's synergized with Rylai's for double damage, which was used to deal with the tanky champions who actually stood a chance against Malzahar's combo. Basically Liandry's happened to have the right stats (Synergy with Rylai's, pen and ap) which allowed Malzahar to have the ability to deal with both squishy and tanky champions as a side bonus. If Liandry's didn't have pen or ap, I wouldn't buy it because it only does damage based off of current health, not max health like Null Zone.
That "reliable" safety net prevents you from seeing how much damage that could be done to you. People are scared of what they don't know or understand. It actually makes me more scared in the laning phase when I'm against champions who can easily pop his passive because the "prolonging" ability he has is only a 650 range spell. If your shield is down and you don't know how much damage is being done to you with it down, why would you go into striking distance of the enemy laner who could potentially out trade you? And before you make the "well you can bounce malefic visions off of minions" argument, it doesn't reliably kill minions anymore and voidlings will end up either running out of time or get killed for gold. using call of the void to extend the duration on the minion wave to try and make it spread through the minion wave only wastes your mana because malefic gives back % mana instead of flat mana like it used to.
Even if the enemy had QSS, it only stopped the suppress or slow (Rylai's) back then. Not the damage. So it was perfectly fine for Malz even if they built it. Now-a-days Malzahar's ult damage is completely based on the former w he makes, which means they can use QSS and simply walk off the fucking pool. Basically Malzahar is countered by QSS more now than he was before the update.
P.S. There is a difference between "A lot of damage" and "Meaningful damage" for all you people who use stats to say "he does more damage now"
Anyways gotta go to work :/
Have a nice day.
A little Peepo1 votes[{quoted}](name=Weeaboo Sword,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8VMwreXy,comment-id=00040000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-25T12:18:30.150+0000)
His voidlings were less numerous but stronger before the update. It was actually gave ad malzahar purpose lane-wise because he could rip through towers. Now his voidlings not only do not multiply when hitting towers, but they also one shotted by towers. The only use his voidlings are for now is for giving aoe champions gold and getting dragon/rift harald if the enemy team is stupid due to the 50% damage reduction on monsters.
Pre-rework malzahar wouldn't 100-0 people? Please. They reduced the burst on him BECAUSE he was pretty much insta killing people and they didn't like how it wasn't fun for the receiving party. The only people surviving were the tanky champions, which leads to the next point.
Malzahar's build was power and penetration. Liandry's added to pen you got from Sorcerer's Shoes and Runes to add up to over 30 to deal with squishy champions. The DoT portion of Liandry's synergized with Rylai's for double damage, which was used to deal with the tanky champions who actually stood a chance against Malzahar's combo. Basically Liandry's happened to have the right stats (Synergy with Rylai's, pen and ap) which allowed Malzahar to have the ability to deal with both squishy and tanky champions as a side bonus. If Liandry's didn't have pen or ap, I wouldn't buy it because it only does damage based off of current health, not max health like Null Zone.
That "reliable" safety net prevents you from seeing how much damage that could be done to you. People are scared of what they don't know or understand. It actually makes me more scared in the laning phase when I'm against champions who can easily pop his passive because the "prolonging" ability he has is only a 650 range spell. If your shield is down and you don't know how much damage is being done to you with it down, why would you go into striking distance of the enemy laner who could potentially out trade you? And before you make the "well you can bounce malefic visions off of minions" argument, it doesn't reliably kill minions anymore and voidlings will end up either running out of time or get killed for gold. using call of the void to extend the duration on the minion wave to try and make it spread through the minion wave only wastes your mana because malefic gives back % mana instead of flat mana like it used to.
Even if the enemy had QSS, it only stopped the suppress or slow (Rylai's) back then. Not the damage. So it was perfectly fine for Malz even if they built it. Now-a-days Malzahar's ult damage is completely based on the former w he makes, which means they can use QSS and simply walk off the fucking pool. Basically Malzahar is countered by QSS more now than he was before the update.
P.S. There is a difference between "A lot of damage" and "Meaningful damage" for all you people who use stats to say "he does more damage now"
Anyways gotta go to work :/
Have a nice day.
If he wasn't meant to be a DoT mage then answer me this question, why did 80% of his kit was based of DoT damage and not instant burst? (Passive, W, E, R) If he was meant to be burst then I'm pretty sure his Q wouldn't be his only instant burst ability.
The spell penetration on liandries hardly justifies you building it or champions like Leblanc would be building that shit. If you didn't know liandries is a core item on DoT champs or consistent damage per second champions (swain, zyra, malz, azir) which is why you rarely see liandries at all on any champions (except the mentioned)
His voidlings are freaking strong, especially in lane. It's a good thing his voidlings get 1 shot by towers just like zyra plants and zzrot, that would be problematic if anything. You just want malz stupid op don't you? It's a shame his voidlings cant solo towers, poor malz.
I'm not sure about ad malz since most people saw that as a troll build rather than a serious one, same with Muramana syndra when the item procced the bonus damage on her ult per sphere. So I'll give you this one.
You can look at it however you want but it's pretty obvious that Riot designed him to be a DoT or damage per second type of mage rather than a veigar/annie burst type mage because even a fed malz wasn't able to burst you as quickly as an annie or Veigar at any point in the game. Also this isn't my opinion this is something riot said in the past already and they even categorized malz under DoT mage rather than annie burst mage.
Even then why are you complaining? Malz is still strong and if anything he can still kill a target relatively quicker now. Seriously if you are sitting here crying that malz sucks now then we aren't playing the same game or you just really SUCK at malzahar in general because malz is really strong right now that he's banned worthy and has been for a LONG time.
Have a Nice Game1 votesI answered your points in order with my reasoning.
Of course I'm not happy about losing my Prophet of The Void buddy but...
Please don't assume I'm crying or whining about this new summoner champion.
It is Riot's game. They can do what they want with it.
And now...
E and R were DoT. W was an aoe with DoT properties. Q was a one cast, one damage spell. But don't you lump Voidlings in there as a DoT ability. If that were the case, all auto attacking champions would be considered DoT.
That aside, if we're answering questions or points with more questions, then answer me this: "Why does a champion (In this case Malzahar) have to be one thing (i.e. Specializing in DoT)?"
What was wrong with Malzahar being multiple things?
He used to be played as a "burst, poke, siege mage"
Now his burst is gone. (He can do more damage over a longer period of time though, I will admit)
Now his poke is dependent on combos (WE or EQ) and in some cases just not worth doing (Shield down or Voidling Timers running out or Wanting to get Mana back from the minion wave instead)
Now he doesn't siege as well because whats to fear from a mage in a quick fight if his damage is only big over a period of time? (You used to be able to time a Q and watch each enemy caught by it lose 30-45% of their health each time. Now if you want Q to be effective you have to get within the 650 range that his E is to do the reset combo that you may even miss)
He lost a lot of what he was just to fill in that sick dream of becoming super specialized in one category because god knows lee sin is played because he is the master of one thing right? /sarcasm.
You are telling me that if Liandry's didn't have the AP or the Pen, you'd still buy it on Malzahar who can do more MAX HEALTH PERCENTAGE damage scaling with AP AND MAGIC PENETRATION FOR EACH TICK simply because it has "current" health percentage based DoT properties.
I'm gonna call bullshit on that one.
As I stated before: "I" buy it because it happened to synergize with Rylai's while providing the AP and Pen I needed. I'm not going to buy it for the passive alone if it didn't have the two stats Malzahar needs for damage.
If you read what I typed last time, you'd realize that even if you think those voidlings are strong in lane, a strong aoe will grant the enemy laner a lot of gold. if they gave 5 gold each for the amount you can spam out, maybe it'd be fine. But they don't. They give 12 or so gold each, which is what the old voidlings gave. They can watch you build up a wave just for more gold. How bout them apples?
"You can look at it however you want but it's pretty obvious that Riot designed him to be a DoT or damage per second type of mage"
Being a DoT mage is cool. But that doesn't mean he has to be purely DoT. He is primarily a mage and his secondary is assassin Last I checked, assassins tend to be... rather bursty.
"even a fed malz wasn't able to burst you as quickly as an annie or Veigar at any point in the game"
Were we playing the same game? Or did you not play Malzahar a lot before his update? Because on my end, I was usually the one bursting Annie or Veigar down, not the other way around.
"Even then why are you complaining?"
Loss of theme.
Malzahar, Prophet of The Void As a prophet he foretells the coming of the Void Kit-wise the passive signaled the eventual coming of The Void While his spells showed his victim(s) glimpses of the Void.
Pressing a button to insta summon a Voidling is not foretelling.
that would actually be considered being the reason for their coming
In other words, he should be called "Bringer of The Void"
Loss of Freedom
Old Malz allowed you to use your spells in any order you wanted, however the fuck you wanted.
This Malz Forces you to combo (EQ) Forces you to use Voidlings when before they were a nice to have thing Forces your pool to spawn ONLY in a certain area (His ult target)
If I had to complain about anything, it wouldn't be about how strong he is.
It would be about how much my companion for so many years has lost just because every champion had to have a niche.
Like I said above, Riot can do what they want. Its their game.
But as far as I'm concerned...
Malzahar was deleted from the game in 6.9 in favor of Valzahar.
So I get to spend time hunting for a new champion that clicks with me.
Have a nice day.
420 grams1 votesNah, it just means different. I like malzahar, but the problem is I like him jungle and his ult does a lot of damage, but people always wait to last hit and take your kill. Then as an ap champ with no kills, you don't do a lot of damage.
zlumpy1 votesHave you seen the voidling swarm jungle? He can solo dragon when no one expects it early game. Thats pretty damn op in my book.
Arkale2 votesHe could kill the drag at level 3 easily before the rework, it's just that nobody thought of him jungling.
zlumpy1 votesDid voidling work the same pre rework? I took like a year and a half off. Last malz I remember prior to rework didn't have the W making them but the putting the disc on the ground instead.
Arkale1 votesNo, the voidlings were still his passive, but they tanked way more damage and scaled with 100% of his AD
Have a Nice Game1 votes100% of his bonus ad
rtbf2023292061 votesMalzahar is stronger than ever before. Broken IMO.
