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PSA: If your jungler ganks and you're not very low, engage first.

TheThundersRoar··97 votes·4,942 views

I did not come to 1v1 your laner(s). I did not come to chase him and take minion aggro. I did not come to waste my time.

Engage him, get him committed, draw out his CC/mobility, distract him from looking at the map, fight him 2v1, and he'll die.

Not every jungler is a Sejuani coming to dash-ult your enemy. It makes everyone's job so much easier if you go in first.

Understandable response:

Really? Because if I see my enemy laner with half health jumping me when I'm full and I'm a full level ahead of them, I'm going the fuck back to my tower because I know something's up. Or you know, just kill him and then take his jungler when they arrive.

Engage doesn't necessarily mean ult him. It means bait him, get in position, make him think you're a free kill.

Think of it this way. If the laner doesn't engage, it's free damage on the enemy. In the fight, and in the chase. If they do engage, it's a kill because (no attention to gank, wasted abilities in fight, 2v1).

And it's MUCH easier for the laner to get in range because, if the enemy is in position to get ganked (pushing, winning lane, etc.), chances are he's trying to get in range anyway, either because he's winning or because he's being a moron very oblivious.

Either way, people get greedy 9/10 times and try to fight back, and even desperately chase/towerdive for the kill when I'm literally right behind them ready to stick it up their ass.

As for getting double killed,_ I'm not going to say it never happens,_ but whenever it does, it's because the enemy was **unexpectedly ** strong. If the enemy was a Zed with an ult and you were half-HP, or a farmed Nasus, or a 15/0 Pantheon by 5 minutes, I'm not going to gank unless I was very confident in the kill (ex. Vi gank for Orianna, both with ults).

If I decide the lane is too strong to be ganked, I'm not going to gank, no matter how much you beg (or talk shit). That dragon contest needs me more than you do. But that's a jungler PSA for another day. For today, when you see the green ping and a jungler about to enter the warded zone, GO IN.

EDIT: Okay, people can have bad judgement, even those with a generally good one. A jungler CAN ask you to go into the 500-stacks-by-20-mins Nasus. At the end of the day, do use your judgement. Don't blindly follow other players, especially at lower Elos. All I'm saying is, if it isn't suicide, your engage can make a successful gank.

59 Comments

disregardable12 votes

Actually, it makes everyone's job easier if you go in first. You are the surprise. They do not know that you're there, so it's easier for you to land your CC. If you're playing a jungler without CC, then the laner engaging first is understandable, but otherwise nah.

BluePolarizer18 votes

no, it is almost always better for the laner to engage because as the jungler you have no idea where the laner will be if he doesn't engage and you have no idea what the laner is thinking if he doesn't engage. This is especially important if your CC is unreliable and the laner's is reliable. Also, you are penalized for waiting as the jungler, the laner is not. Communicate clearly what you are going to do, let the laner engage and swoop in right then to help finish them off quickly.

OperationDEEZ122 votes

Really? Because if I see my enemy laner with half health jumping me when I'm full and I'm a full level ahead of them, I'm going the fuck back to my tower because I know something's up. Or you know, just kill him and then take his jungler when they arrive.

TheThundersRoar4 votes

Think of it this way. If the laner doesn't engage, it's free damage on the enemy. In the fight, and in the chase. If they do engage, it's a kill because (no attention to gank, wasted abilities in fight, 2v1).

And it's MUCH easier for the laner to get in range because, if the enemy is in position to get ganked (pushing, winning lane, etc.), chances are he's trying to get in range anyway, either because he's winning or because he's being a moron very oblivious.

Either way, people get greedy 9/10 times and try to fight back, and even desperately chase/towerdive for the kill when I'm literally right behind them ready to stick it up their ass.

As for getting double killed, I'm not going to say it never happens, but whenever it does, it's because the enemy was unexpectedly strong. If the enemy was a Zed with an ult and you were half, or a farmed Nasus, or a 15/0 Pantheon by 5 minutes, I'm not going to gank unless I was very confident in the kill (ex. Vi gank for Orianna, both with ults).

If I decide the lane is too strong to be ganked, I'm not going to gank, no matter how much you beg. That dragon contest needs me more than you do. But that's a jungler PSA for another day. For today, when you see the green ping and a jungler about to enter the warded zone, GO IN.

EDIT: Okay, people can have bad judgement, even those with a generally good one. A jungler CAN ask you to go into the 500-stacks-by-20-mins Nasus. At the end of the day, do use your judgement. Don't blindly follow other players, especially at lower Elos. All I'm saying is, if it isn't suicide, your engage can make a successful gank.

Vegas Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Connor Davenport,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8NEUQ6Ea,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2015-12-28T05:47:50.164+0000)

Think of it this way. If the laner doesn't engage, it's free damage on the enemy. In the fight, and in the chase. If they do engage, it's a kill because (no attention to gank, wasted abilities in fight, 2v1).

And it's MUCH easier for the laner to get in range because, if the enemy is in position to get ganked (pushing, winning lane, etc.), chances are he's trying to get in range anyway, either because he's winning or because he's being a moron very oblivious.

Either way, people get greedy 9/10 times and try to fight back, and even desperately chase/towerdive for the kill when I'm literally right behind them ready to stick it up their ass.

As for getting double killed, I'm not going to say it never happens, but whenever it does, it's because the enemy was unexpectedly strong. If the enemy was a Zed with an ult and you were half, or a farmed Nasus, or a 15/0 Pantheon by 5 minutes, I'm not going to gank unless I was very confident in the kill (ex. Vi gank for Orianna, both with ults).

If I decide the lane is too strong to be ganked, I'm not going to gank, no matter how much you beg. That dragon contest needs me more than you do. But that's a jungler PSA for another day. For today, when you see the green ping and a jungler about to enter the warded zone, GO IN.

EDIT: Okay, people can have bad judgement, even those with a generally good one. A jungler CAN ask you to go into the 500-stacks-by-20-mins Nasus. At the end of the day, do use your judgement. Don't blindly follow other players, especially at lower Elos. All I'm saying is, if it isn't suicide, your engage can make a successful gank.

Guy you are a turbo noob. you are literally 100% wrong. It goes one way and one way only unless you are a scrub. You must wait for your jungle to get into position and have junge engage/ cut off the escape. You cannot engage as lane because anyone with sense will know it means a gank is inc and they will back off. So either it is warded they see you coming and back off, or it isnt and you come from behind/side and engage with your laner joining in split second later. You must be that trahs jungler who uses lanes for bait to get yourself kills. Pretty much polar opposite of the purpose of the jungler. Junlger job is to get lanes ahead nott o have a laner sacrifice themselves so you can get a kill.

3ofGot40ve1 votes

Personally, when I see my jungler waiting to go in for a gank, I ping that I am on my way, but still wait fro him to engage just so he knows I'm ready.

Vegas Dad1 votes

{quoted}

no, it is almost always better for the laner to engage because as the jungler you have no idea where the laner will be if he doesn't engage and you have no idea what the laner is thinking if he doesn't engage. This is especially important if your CC is unreliable and the laner's is reliable. Also, you are penalized for waiting as the jungler, the laner is not. Communicate clearly what you are going to do, let the laner engage and swoop in right then to help finish them off quickly.

You are an idiot, that is what looking at the map is for an pings. God this game no wonder matches feel like cancer you guys really have no clue how to play this game lol. Almost every circumstance you want the junlger to initiate first with the laner following up. LIKE ALWAYS if not for the simple reason you want the jungler to eat some dmg then they can leave the fight and have the laner finish off the gank getting the kill.

Support Evelynn12 votes

Diamond jungler here. It's typically better to bait the enemy with intentionally poor positioning than to engage (unless you have easy to hit hard cc). An engage is usually suspicious, especially if the laner was previously passive.

Also when the jungler is flanking, it's typically better for the jungler to engage first and have the laner follow up.

RyzeRework2 votes

I just end up running through the lane because my mid laner won't stop farming to follow up

Birefringence2 votes

Agreed, I normally try to give the enemy reason to engage so that the jungler has a nice lead going in. Though sometimes It wrecks me since I'm playing a squishy healer. Though I would like to add that the duo on the same team as the jungler need some sort of CC for the most success unless they're low.

TotalJerk1 votes

This, especially if you're playing against champion like Zed who would be tempted to blow their escapes and counter engages to punish you for your "poor" positioning.

EndlessSorcerer11 votes

However, if your laner is not in a position to engage (i.e. doing so would make them miss 2-3 waves of minions under their tower in the early levels), then don't be surprised if they don't follow up on the gank (or if they ping you away).

Missing that much experience early-game is crippling, even if you get the kill.

TeCoolMage4 votes

This is especially important with low CC junglers like Yi or Kindred

Kuroi864 votes

Depends on the situation. What type of champ you're playing, your jungler, the enemy laner, the enemy jungler. Do you know if they have a specific ability up? How much chance do you stand if you go ahead and engage but your jungler is slow to respond? There are a lot of factors to consider, but you do have a point. The point of a gank is a 2v1 in your favor to try and secure a quick kill, waiting on the jungler to do all the work while you wait to snipe the enemy is a bad gank and is likely to put your jungler behind and risk feeding your lane.

KimchiFryRiceGG3 votes

I hate when i go to gank bot or mid and they are more than half health left and they just watch me go in blow my kit and continue farming, then push up a bit and complain about NA ganks...item 2043

The Whamboozler3 votes

I know that feel, bro. No no Lucian, keep farming. I just came into lane to say hi.

ForgiveColour3 votes

yeah except everyone thats not shit will know your lane pattern and if you suddenly commit they'll know whats up

Beldair2 votes

I fully agree. Especially for Evelynn. I need them commited so i can come in and burst them with a ton of damage. Evelynn is a champ needs a distraction so she can get in close and spam her abilities.

LilQuacker2 votes

So true,i ganked a lane as eve b4 and then died because lee sin was sitting at tower eating noodles then he saids im feeding his laner

GankLord2 votes

PSA: If I gank for you unleash my full kit and you don't get the kill don't blame me for the failed gank.

Malix Farwin2 votes

PSA: if i have low mana, dont expect much of a follow-up.

Gregor Gysi2 votes

It's situational. You can't say the laner should always engage first, because there situations in which this is the wrong choice.

[{quoted}](name=Connor Davenport,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8NEUQ6Ea,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-12-28T05:00:38.830+0000)

All I'm saying is, if it isn't suicide, your engage can make a successful gank.

However, it could also fail an otherwise succesfull gank. How to react to your own jungler ganking depends on which lane it is, whether you can fight your opponent, how your behaviour was in the past lane (if you never tried to trade aggressively then it's going to be really suspicious), everyones HP, the enemy laner(s), the respective champions etc etc.

Cosnirak2 votes

All too often being aggressive at all (including even just moving towards them to get in range to do anything) causes the enemy laner to back off. Unless the jungler gets behind them somehow it doesn't work for the laner to engage first. Often I do the exact opposite in fact and back up to get them to feel safe coming closer and thus in range of the jungler.

As Maya Fey said below: "It's typically better to bait the enemy with intentionally poor positioning than to engage (unless you have easy to hit hard cc). An engage is usually suspicious, especially if the laner was previously passive.

Also when the jungler is flanking, it's typically better for the jungler to engage first and have the laner follow up."

Occams Raiser1 votes

elo dependent.

Cosnirak1 votes

From unranked to gold 4 I've seen that be true. The person I quoted said they're in diamond. I've seen it be that way in the LCS. How is it elo dependent?

Occams Raiser1 votes

I agree with the whole scaring them from the gank. But anytime I see high elo tactics proclaimed as gospel for every elo I counter with: not everyone plays like a plat so different ranks need different play styles though emulation of higher up should be sought as much as possible.

Cosnirak1 votes

Nothing is gospel at any rank. You adapt to the situation, that's what makes pvp so fun and challenging. And that's why I used the term "All too often" and Maya Fey used "It's typically better." Others might come across as more hard line about something but usually that's just for the sake of brevity or is simply poor communication, not them actually believing in a 100% rule for how to play.

MLDzXnRRR2 votes

Engaging for no reason smells like a gank. You are gonna waste your time vs skilled players who will disengage. There is no reason to fight in the game outside of objective fights.

Chrono1112 votes

As a jg main, I wish I can upvote this 1000 times!

Ryùuzaki1 votes

sometimes when i gank some lane and both the enemy and my ally are low and i go for the enemy they decide to step back and not help and once i'm about to kill him they decide to take the kill... humm

Occams Raiser2 votes

That actually sounds right. Did you not mean for them to have the kill or are you just resentful of how much work you did for an assist?Just who are you trying to get fed?

Morticianjohn1 votes

You wouldn't be wasting your abilities to gank without getting the kill. Sometimes a successful gank is simply pushing the opposition out, using their flash etc.... These are successful and should not be downplayed. It is important to have a jungle presence in lane even if your laner doesn't engage and/or you aren't getting kills by doing so.

Oh No! I just wasted half my mana and health and all of my abilities are on cooldown for the next 8 seconds..... Goes and takes one jungle camp back at full health and nothing on cooldown.

As others are saying it's mostly champ and situation dependent not really a clear cut thing as the OP is suggesting.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Seems like you know a thing or two. I almost never hear someone describe success as anything less than a kill.

Partholonian2 votes

There are even some laners who describe the jungler getting the kill as a "failed" gank. Take your assist and free farm and stop whining.

elon wątroba1 votes

It's depends on minions too, when you are shoved under turret with champion that have little to no mobility it's hard to engage first.

S H A Y C 01 votes

FFS at least participate a little!

Pretty please?[zombie-nunu-tears]

Kairya1 votes

And please, please don't play sarcrifical lamb, when you are already low and your jungler comes for a gank.

Spacesuit Spiff1 votes

So true. In low elo i pretty much just play junglers that can 1v1 so i can get the kill without waiting for the laner to finish lasthitting and then waddle over

Shroom Junkie1 votes

Unless your jungler is Shaco/Rengar. Back. The. Fuck. Up.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Elo subjectivity. It depends on the champs, timing, and positioning. I Support main. Support tries to engage to draw out the CC or escapes. If the jungler has a stealth... we all dog pile with the adc last to engage. I am assuming everyone wants the adc fed first not the jungler.

3ofGot40ve1 votes

Unless your kat.

Redpuggoo1 votes

Ok, but I can't count the times where my jg comes in at low hp and just dies to my lane opponent. I've had jugglers lose lane for me and blame me.

Sozan51 votes

I would say it's rather situational who should engage first, but I would have to say that it's usually jungler who should. There are only a few situations in which engaging as a laner first is better, namely:

  • Laner having better/more reliable CC than the jungler.
  • Enemy laner has wards.

Of course, there is another, best way of starting ganks and that's: Laner being engaged on. A bait like this usually ends with enemy laner burning all his abilities - including his escape and makes for an easy gank. Unfortunately it does carry some risk as the laner can die in some circumstances.

Anyway, it all goes down to: Use your own judgement on whether bait an enemy, engage on him or wait for the jungler to engage.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

One thing though is that the jungler often engages when they shouldn't. It happens alot when I'm playing Nasus, if there is a huge wave at my turret I want to stack it, not try to kill the Darius with ignite at level 3 and just end up trading and losing a bunch of stacks.

Vegas Dad1 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Big Piece,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8NEUQ6Ea,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2015-12-29T01:37:27.638+0000)

One thing though is that the jungler often engages when they shouldn't. It happens alot when I'm playing Nasus, if there is a huge wave at my turret I want to stack it, not try to kill the Darius with ignite at level 3 and just end up trading and losing a bunch of stacks.

Then you should be spam pinging him off and typing for him not to gank, I wont even discuss the concept you have let a huge wave reach your turret by level 3.... you need to learn to control your lane better.

KVbqbFsC8e1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vegas Dad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8NEUQ6Ea,comment-id=001e0000,timestamp=2015-12-29T02:41:30.472+0000)

Then you should be spam pinging him off and typing for him not to gank, I wont even discuss the concept you have let a huge wave reach your turret by level 3.... you need to learn to control your lane better.

Well, I can't really freeze at level 3 vs an Ignite Thunderlords Darius.

RattleKnight1 votes

No, to be fair, as a jungler, you should wait until chance come. Sometime the enemy know you are there. Usually if your laner begin to be aggressive all of a sudden, the enemy will know that a jungler is near. I usually try to bait them out, not hitting minions so that he can push further over the river. Whoever attk first doesnt matter. It always depends on your skill set. (say malphite R/ lee sin/ ....)

LOL Spammer1 votes

Engage? No I throw w and continue to farm. Nasus

LiziLOL1 votes

i hate when my jungler come to gank when there're 30minions hitting my tower

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