@Riot, When You Get There, Could You Make Alistar's W>Q Combo Smoother To Use?

Solideus·Jan 14, 2015·38 votes·3,143 views

You seem to support it as a feature it still. If you will continue to, it should probably be tweaked to be less awkward to execute.

Here are two examples. A) Similar to s E>Q, s **Headbutt **could have a clearer telegraph where the window to cast **Pulverize ** in W>Q was longer and clearer. B) The opposite could work, where **Pulverize **has a telegraph, like Mega's Wallop. Then you could cast **Headbutt **during Pulverize's "windup" to execute Headbutt-into-Pulverize.

These are just two examples. I hope you can explore these and other options once you get to gameplay tweaks for .

34 Comments

MrBuffingtonJan 14, 20159 votes

IIRC his WQ combo was never meant to be a combo; it's kind of a bug that Riot thought was kind of cool so they never got rid of it (same thing with his W + AA, though that was pretty unhealthy for trading in top lane so they got rid of it). I don't think they'll make it easier to execute, though they probably won't delete it in the future.

SolideusJan 14, 20153 votes

It would be weird if it was to be left in some kind of limbo between allowed but awkward and unrefined. Maybe it will though, I'ts been around for a while already.

MrBuffingtonJan 14, 20153 votes

Meddler commented that Alistar likely won't have any skill changes this year, only balance changes as necessary. Though if they do get through all their reworks ahead of schedule, Alistar might see some changes, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

SolideusJan 14, 20153 votes

There's a lot of things on his kit that could use an update, like his passive and E. So yeah, they'd need a lot of iteration and they'll probably not have the time this year.

KalarepaJan 14, 20151 votes

Well then either make it easier to land or disable it and buff something else about cow. It's stupid, that there is a champion, whose main mechanic can be used only if you have low enough ping.

PhoenixSlayer13Jan 14, 20155 votes

There's also been talk that they don't like the WQ combo much anymore, since it's effectively a Malphite ult. We just have to wait and see what happens really.

MrBuffingtonJan 14, 20152 votes

I guess that's always an option, he might get a full rework sometime in the future

GG BeersJan 14, 20152 votes

That's not really a valid argument. When Ali does his combo he literally has 0 abilities left to use minus a really, really shitty heal. Not to mention most of the time it's better to pop up then knock back.

PhoenixSlayer13Jan 14, 20152 votes

I'm aware. I've just seen that Riot has been on the fence about it.

AbodyHUN666Jan 14, 20153 votes

Still it's targeted which doesn't allow much counterplay.

Sightless66Jan 14, 20151 votes

Well, you can technically flash the W. That's about all you can do to keep out of Malphite's ult, so it seems cool to me.

MeesterMooJan 15, 20151 votes

uh ult?

FHMarshyJan 14, 20156 votes

But but but :( that is what distinguishes a good and a bad ali player tho

SolideusJan 14, 20155 votes

That might be a fair argument.

I've had very low fps for a little while now, making W>Q impossible to execute most of the time, which is why I was thinking about it; that may or may not be a good enough argument though.

Do you think blowing both your CC's at once for a stronger initiation might be a fair tradeoff on its own, or not? Even if it was easier to execute?

FHMarshyJan 14, 20152 votes

Ah, i didn't take into consideration of the lags .... hmmm :(

Entheos GeonJan 14, 20153 votes

{quoted}

But but but :( that is what distinguishes a good and a bad ali player tho

This isn't a fighting game. Trivial combo timings isn't something that should distinguish a good player from a bad player in a strategy game. Positioning and the decision-making on when to use a combo should.

FHMarshyJan 14, 20152 votes

TBH i really disagree with that comment. I agree that positioning and decision making is the crucial part, but up to a certain level, I'd say around mid gold, everyone has a good concept of those.

To go further from gold, a big part is the mechanics. For example, if someone goes into item 3157 , it makes a HUGE difference if one can time it right to case a spell right when the active of fades. This will mean survive or death in a lot of situations.

or Lee, even as op a champion he is, if you time your kick just a few seconds late, it could very well differ in a kill or saving the enemy.

Timing, although not as important as positioning and decision making, is still a big part of this game.

imonly4noobcakesJan 14, 20153 votes

It used to be really smooth when LoL first started, but they changed him somewhere down the line.

FDruJan 14, 20151 votes

When they nerfed Headbutt range it became a lot harder to pull off. The timing is really tight and I'm not sure it's possible with >140 ping. Oh, and if the target is walking directly away from you it can flat out miss...

junglerboy16Jan 14, 20151 votes

It is soooo simple to use already. Just HOLD Q while you are charging towards the target and your pulverize queues up automatically. If you aren't holding it down, it won't queue, but if you wait and try to time it for when the dash ends, you usually miss. It only takes about one bot game worth of practice to get it every time. My first game as Alistar against real people, everyone thought he was my main because I hit the combo every single time I wanted to.

EDIT: I can also pull it off with +90% reliability at an average of 100 Ping and up, since I am about as East Coast as East Coast gets here in New England.

RogueWillJan 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

It is soooo simple to use already. Just HOLD Q while you are charging towards the target and your pulverize queues up automatically. If you aren't holding it down, it won't queue, but if you wait and try to time it for when the dash ends, you usually miss. It only takes about one bot game worth of practice to get it every time. My first game as Alistar against real people, everyone thought he was my main because I hit the combo every single time I wanted to.

EDIT: I can also pull it off with +90% reliability at an average of 100 Ping and up, since I am about as East Coast as East Coast gets here in New England.

I use smart cast, so normally what that makes is a Pulverize on nothing followed by a headbutt and a lot of frustration. Now a days what I do is as soon as I see the animation for headbutt I hit the Q key. It works around 70% of the time.

junglerboy16Jan 14, 20152 votes

I always use smart cast as well. I said to do exactly what you said, you HOLD Q, while CHARGING (as in, already moving towards the target). If you aren't already moving, then yes you tend to pulverize the ground around you. Maybe I'm just lucky and hit it more by chance, but it never seems that hard to me.

Rinky DinkyJan 14, 20152 votes

So you hold q and dont let go until when?

When do you release the q key?

junglerboy16Jan 15, 20151 votes

I hold it until my target is flailing around in the air above my head. Basically, you hold it until pulverize actually activates (watch for his arms to come up into the air, that is about when it is safe to let go). I just got Alistar recently, and kept hearing about this mythically hard combo, and then saw somebody on LoL Wiki Who said Hold Q after the W animation starts, and let go once they are knocked up. It works almost every time unless you try to time it while standing right next to them (at which point you should just pulverize anyway). If you still have trouble with it I would recommend head butting a nearby minion instead and then pulverizing. It is less damaging and not always possible, but it is very reliable.

Rinky DinkyJan 15, 20152 votes

Wow your right dude. Just hold down q and it will land every time.

Cant wait for the upgrade tomorrow.

RogueWillJan 14, 20151 votes

perhaps. I just don't hold the Q, I tap them quick succession.

I misunderstood as you clicking the player to headbutt and then holding the Q. With the smartcast the ranges aren't as clear (specially at max range) I would pulverize before headbutting. I still miss one from time to time but since I use to initiate and not mid skirmish I can just fall back and try again.

Kobila2000Jan 15, 20151 votes

In my first Ali game I also almost always hit the combo AT MAX RANGE. If I do it closer, it's impossible to get it right. I've tried against bots and it doesn't work.

junglerboy16Jan 15, 20151 votes

Headbut a minion a bit behind the enemy champion if possible, and then pulverize them if they are standing close enough to mess with your aim but not close enough to just pulverize anyway.

Kobila2000Jan 15, 20151 votes

That would be brilliant if every place in the map had minions.

asdbnmrtyJan 14, 20151 votes

The way I see it, you can only reliable way to Pulverize after a Headbutt is if Headbutt was casted at or nearly at its literal max range. This gives enough time for the game to register the Pulverize while in flight from Headbutt.

cFlameJan 14, 20151 votes

Just do it Riot, Alistars are getting reported for saving enemy assassins.

GandalfthegheyJan 15, 20151 votes

They made it harder to do cause before it was WAY to easy. Still is to be honest

llamasxJan 15, 20151 votes

If they allow for the WQ combo to stay, they should make it easier to execute. Admittedly I almost never fail it, but when I do fail it I don't even know what I did wrong. Couple that with the fact that pros occasionally mess it up and you know that if should be made to at least to more consistently executable.

If not for anything, then for the adc who has the noob alistar support helping the enemy escape while simultaneously dying.

Bronze ProphetJan 15, 20151 votes

that moment when the tip shows up saying something like "You can do a fancy combo with Alistars Q and W" and all I can think about was all those bronze players trying that combo and failing.