Kayle's new splash: that's not a boobplate

Solideus·Oct 29, 2014·83 votes·14,804 views

Boobplate is criticized for sacrificing functionality for sexualization. It does go against realism and functional design, but it's not inherently bad. Sometimes sexy-fun is appropriate; there are seductive archetypes like Ahri and Miss Fortune. Even chainmail-bras can be appropriate in the right context. (Although it's used a lot more than it should.)

Now, boobplate is not appropriate for a character like Kayle. However, Kayle's new splash doesn't have a boobplate in the sense that it is sometimes accused of. It is stylized, but obviously functional. The "breast" shapes are extra plating for a female shape-language. Notice how no one is leaping to tear down Pantheon's choice of abs-plate, where functionality also can be in question. Women have breasts, and they can be non-sexual icons of womanhood.

The design choice was in all probability done to make her gender more obvious, like Samus' design has evolved to a more feminine shape-language; *not *a sexualized one. (Well, sadly there's also Zero-Suit...) These strong, female warriors shouldn't have to "hide" behind a "male design" to be taken seriously.

TLDR: Feminine =/= sexualized. It's unfair to by default equal feminine traits to sexualization. It can easily approach shaming if that's the default mindset.

238 Comments

Stars ShaperOct 29, 201424 votes

One word about Pantheon. Abs armor were used by ancient greeks and romans

junglerboy16Oct 29, 201449 votes

That was mostly for show. Really, in actual combat Greeks would wear armor made of laminated linen and metal scales called Linothorax (literally "Linen Body"). The use of ab armor was basically a fad and was only used by very ancient greek armies and was quickly phased out. Romans never used it. Sometimes gladiators would use it, but their armor wasn't supposed to be all that practical, it was supposed to be distinctive so that crowds in the stands could identify their favorite fighters in the arena. Real roman soldiers used metal sheet armor called Lorica Segmentata (Segmented Cuirass), or if they lacked the steel necessary for that, used the Linothorax armor that they copied from the Greeks.

BigfootNamedYetiOct 29, 20144 votes

Greatest history lesson ever Mr.Junglerboy teach my history 140

Final GirIOct 29, 201421 votes

Riot has time and time again disappointed me in their decision that it's necessary to, or that it's even okay to, push tits on every single female character in a franchise. I made this complaint with , who is in no way built enough to be the tough girl she claims to be and manage those giant fists. I made this complaint with , who is a fish and yet is bursting out of her own skin (into her other, mammal-mammaried skin?). I'm going to make the complaint with now, because she's better than this.

is using Hextech gauntlets, so obviously they have the technology to make it so she can hold them up without them being heavy. She is obviously a woman, you don't have to be an obviously butch lesbian to be a fighter, you can be strong and still have feminine qualities.

Nami is not just a fish, she is a mermaid, go back through any movie about Mermaids, they all have tits. Obviously Nami is a more stylized mermaid so her fish aspects continue up to her torso and so on, but it's not like Mermaids have to be exactly 50-50 when it comes to the fish human ratio.

Now let's talk about a none sexualized champions for a moment.

Jinx Flat chest, crazy personality, weird face, not sexualized. Obviously they can make champions who are not for the point of being sexy, i.e. Yordles, Jinx, the children Champs (If you find the children champs sexy, please get help)

Now, I see everyone always talking about the sexualized female champions. Yes, most of the bodies the women in this game have are very sexualized and unobtainable in real life normally. Everyone always seems to forget that the Male Champions are just as sexualized as the women in this game.

Jayce Jayce, hot. Yasuo Look at that smolder, hot. Braum Look at those muscles, those are obviously sexy and unobtainable for men in real life. JarvanIV Those cheek bones, I would never be able to get those without cosmetic surgery. Garen Everything about Garen, that heavy armor, that sleek hair, that face that looks carved out of perfect stone.

So yes, there are sexy women in this game, there are sexy men. You guys can't let that outweigh everything though, everyone is always talking about how the women are to sexy. Look at the men! They are equally as sexy as the women are! Of course there are always the ugly people as well.

Evelynn Cassiopeia Urgot Shaco

Start looking at the good and diversity in this game, rather than nitpicking about Kayle's breasts!

XulsigaeOct 29, 201411 votes

Riot has time and time again disappointed me in their decision that it's necessary to, or that it's even okay to, push tits on every single female character in a franchise. I made this complaint with , who is in no way built enough to be the tough girl she claims to be and manage those giant fists. I made this complaint with , who is a fish and yet is bursting out of her own skin (into her other, mammal-mammaried skin?). I'm going to make the complaint with now, because she's better than this.

is using Hextech gauntlets, so obviously they have the technology to make it so she can hold them up without them being heavy. She is obviously a woman, you don't have to be an obviously butch lesbian to be a fighter, you can be strong and still have feminine qualities.

is not just a fish, she is a mermaid, go back through any movie about Mermaids, they all have tits. Obviously Nami is a more stylized mermaid so her fish aspects continue up to her torso and so on, but it's not like Mermaids have to be exactly 50-50 when it comes to the fish human ratio.

Now let's talk about a none sexualized champions for a moment.

Flat chest, crazy personality, weird face, not sexualized. Obviously they can make champions who are not for the point of being sexy, i.e. Yordles, Jinx, the children Champs (If you find the children champs sexy, please get help)

Now, I see everyone always talking about the sexualized female champions. Yes, most of the bodies the women in this game have are very sexualized and unobtainable in real life normally. Everyone always seems to forget that the Male Champions are just as sexualized as the women in this game.

Jayce, hot. Look at that smolder, hot. Look at those muscles, those are obviously sexy and unobtainable for men in real life. Those cheek bones, I would never be able to get those without cosmetic surgery. Everything about Garen, that heavy armor, that sleek hair, that face that looks carved out of perfect stone.

So yes, there are sexy women in this game, there are sexy men. You guys can't let that outweigh everything though, everyone is always talking about how the women are to sexy. Look at the men! They are equally as sexy as the women are! Of course there are always the ugly people as well.

Start looking at the good and diversity in this game, rather than nitpicking about Kayle's breasts!

We can look at both the over sexualized aspects and enjoy the good aspects of the game too. It doesn't have to be so binary. I like this game plenty, but I will say the female body types need more variety and practicality (not so fanservicy). Being feminine certainly doesn't mean 'slutty' or anything bad, but it also doesn't mean that's all most of the females should be. Being female shouldn't mean they should be impractical in what they wear for the sake of showing off. Kayle is a warrior first and foremost. The men are not nearly as sexualized as the women are. Different fantasies. The men are usually portrayed as powerful, doers, highly masculine (which in our society is usually viewed as an ideal aspect). It's not primarily for a sexual aspect. Of course some women and men will find it sexually attractive, and that's fine, but it's still not the primary purpose. Claiming that some of the women being overly sexualized is not a problem because some of the men are sorta sexualized is not a good argument. The history of depiction in media doesn't support that. Also the fact that this is a fantasy setting doesn't mean that characters have to be inherently impractical or wear silly things. Magic doesn't mean physics no longer apply or are all moot. Many fantasy settings have realistic physics in some ways and not others.

SionideCNOct 29, 20142 votes

We can look at both the over sexualized aspects and enjoy the good aspects of the game too. It doesn't have to be so binary. I like this game plenty, but I will say the female body types need more variety and practicality (not so fanservicy). Being feminine certainly doesn't mean 'slutty' or anything bad, but it also doesn't mean that's all most of the females should be. Being female shouldn't mean they should be impractical in what they wear for the sake of showing off. Kayle is a warrior first and foremost. The men are not nearly as sexualized as the women are. Different fantasies. The men are usually portrayed as powerful, doers, highly masculine (which in our society is usually viewed as an ideal aspect). It's not primarily for a sexual aspect. Of course some women and men will find it sexually attractive, and that's fine, but it's still not the primary purpose. Claiming that some of the women being overly sexualized is not a problem because some of the men are sorta sexualized is not a good argument. The history of depiction in media doesn't support that. Also the fact that this is a fantasy setting doesn't mean that characters have to be inherently impractical or wear silly things. Magic doesn't mean physics no longer apply or are all moot. Many fantasy settings have realistic physics in some ways and not others.

What makes them over-sexualized; and is that really that bad a thing? people don' play video games to watch an average looking character do average things, they play video games to see a cool looking character do cool things!. And you're completely missing the point; the men ARE sexualized, you don't think that the 'powerful man' aspect isn't an idealization of men as the 'hot and powerful' female is an idealization of women?

I'll even list all the male sexualized champs and female sexualized champs and the percent of the roster they make up Starting off; of the 121 champs about 58~ are identify-ably male void creatures and ghosts like morde aren't automatically male :O and about 40~ are identify-ably female. So the champs are skewed a bit towards being male but that's not the argument you're trying to make.

of the 58 males about 15 are overtly sexualized (most of them are weird animal-creatures or have some change to their bodies (like being on fire) Of the females of the 40 females about 9/10 are overtly sexual

Stop talking about champ sexualization as if it's a massive thing in league, it isn't.

XulsigaeOct 29, 20148 votes

We can look at both the over sexualized aspects and enjoy the good aspects of the game too. It doesn't have to be so binary. I like this game plenty, but I will say the female body types need more variety and practicality (not so fanservicy). Being feminine certainly doesn't mean 'slutty' or anything bad, but it also doesn't mean that's all most of the females should be. Being female shouldn't mean they should be impractical in what they wear for the sake of showing off. Kayle is a warrior first and foremost. The men are not nearly as sexualized as the women are. Different fantasies. The men are usually portrayed as powerful, doers, highly masculine (which in our society is usually viewed as an ideal aspect). It's not primarily for a sexual aspect. Of course some women and men will find it sexually attractive, and that's fine, but it's still not the primary purpose. Claiming that some of the women being overly sexualized is not a problem because some of the men are sorta sexualized is not a good argument. The history of depiction in media doesn't support that. Also the fact that this is a fantasy setting doesn't mean that characters have to be inherently impractical or wear silly things. Magic doesn't mean physics no longer apply or are all moot. Many fantasy settings have realistic physics in some ways and not others.

What makes them over-sexualized; and is that really that bad a thing? people don' play video games to watch an average looking character do average things, they play video games to see a cool looking character do cool things!. And you're completely missing the point; the men ARE sexualized, you don't think that the 'powerful man' aspect isn't an idealization of men as the 'hot and powerful' female is an idealization of women?

I'll even list all the male sexualized champs and female sexualized champs and the percent of the roster they make up Starting off; of the 121 champs about 58~ are identify-ably male void creatures and ghosts like morde aren't automatically male :O and about 40~ are identify-ably female. So the champs are skewed a bit towards being male but that's not the argument you're trying to make.

of the 58 males about 15 are overtly sexualized (most of them are weird animal-creatures or have some change to their bodies (like being on fire) Of the females of the 40 females about 9/10 are overtly sexual

Stop talking about champ sexualization as if it's a massive thing in league, it isn't.

In my view they aren't sexualized. They are portrayed as powerful or suave. If you see them as sexualized, that's your right. Being idealized isn't the same as being sexualized. It's a problem for me when it's very one sided and puts characters into one body type or look.

Morde and others are referred to as 'he' and have male voice overs. If you see Morde as anything but male, that's your right, but I think it's not a common view. Voice and pronoun are a good indicator of gender.

Bob of DoomOct 30, 20142 votes

Voice is a biased way to predict the gender of a sapient being without being actually aware of the gender. We simply apply gender to them because it is natural for people to apply gender to those they interact with. The writers probably put the pronoun down as "he" not because he thought of the champion as male, but more because its the common use of the third person singular pronoun and is less clunky than the s/he. Of course I could be wrong and the designers sat down and discussed the gender of the non-human sapient beings and decided on what they actually were.

And using your own argument the fact that I don't find Kayle's armor as sexualized helps proves that it isn't sexualized. It is portrayed as powerful and a bit pedantic on how its looking down on the viewer. Does that discount your argument? I don't think it does. But just as you don't think the objectively male champions are sexualized I can use the same arguments on how some of the objectively female champions aren't sexualized.

But the actual argument is idealized vs. sexualized. The thing is the ideal warrior is a sexy warrior. Its part of the ideal person, otherwise Captain America wouldn't be tall and ripped, he'd be the same as he was only with greater capability. Part of the process of creating an ideal champion is sexualizing them. The only obviously human champion (someone you can tell by the portrait) I can think of that doesn't fall into the idealized and sexualized champion is Gragas, but then someone has already posted on how s/he found him sexy.

cshakesOct 30, 20145 votes

Part of the process of creating an ideal champion is sexualizing them.

...really?

Bob of DoomOct 31, 20141 votes

While this doesn't in fact prove my argument in any way and is in fact a logical fallacy, I would like you to try to explain how that sentence is wrong. In my experience when we create the ideal of any person we create one that would be sexually appealing. Which by definition is sexualization. Well, actually sexualize but the idea should be similar enough.

XulsigaeOct 31, 20143 votes

While this doesn't in fact prove my argument in any way and is in fact a logical fallacy, I would like you to try to explain how that sentence is wrong. In my experience when we create the ideal of any person we create one that would be sexually appealing. Which by definition is sexualization. Well, actually sexualize but the idea should be similar enough.

Are there different kinds of idealizing? Say the ideal swordsman or the ideal cook or the ideal...whatever? Things that don't have to do with being sexually attractive.

Bob of DoomOct 31, 20141 votes

There are plenty of things that don't involve being sexually attractive that you can try to be ideal at. However, we aren't talking about actual people here. We are talking about a fictional person where the idealized are very often sexualized. But I will make my requirement simple. Provide one example of an internet searchable character (just so I can expand my understanding of this topic) of an idealized person that is not sexualized based off the general sexual expectations of the time period where they are created. Again, I acknowledge this is a logically fallacy and doesn't prove my point in the least. I am making an argument from ignorance here. However this seems to be the average thought pattern for most people so fixing this should help resolve a lot of issues that spawn from this fallacy.

XulsigaeNov 1, 20143 votes

There are plenty of things that don't involve being sexually attractive that you can try to be ideal at. However, we aren't talking about actual people here. We are talking about a fictional person where the idealized are very often sexualized. But I will make my requirement simple. Provide one example of an internet searchable character (just so I can expand my understanding of this topic) of an idealized person that is not sexualized based off the general sexual expectations of the time period where they are created. Again, I acknowledge this is a logically fallacy and doesn't prove my point in the least. I am making an argument from ignorance here. However this seems to be the average thought pattern for most people so fixing this should help resolve a lot of issues that spawn from this fallacy.

Well if it's a logical fallacy, why should I look at it? Not sure what you're asking.

Bob of DoomNov 1, 20142 votes

I am asking for an idealized person who isn't also sexualized based off the culture that spawned said person. For example, Amaterasu wouldn't be sexualized by today's standards but would be by older standards. And all of this is to show that idealized is traditionally associated with sexualization.

And the logically fallacy is that I can't find any proof against so my statement must be true. That of course doesn't make my statement true, and I am not claiming that my statement is proven. I am just saying that from what I can tell its the reason behind certain champion design choices.

XulsigaeNov 1, 20142 votes

I am asking for an idealized person who isn't also sexualized based off the culture that spawned said person. For example, Amaterasu wouldn't be sexualized by today's standards but would be by older standards. And all of this is to show that idealized is traditionally associated with sexualization.

And the logically fallacy is that I can't find any proof against so my statement must be true. That of course doesn't make my statement true, and I am not claiming that my statement is proven. I am just saying that from what I can tell its the reason behind certain champion design choices.

Idealized how? There are many ways to be idealized. I can show you Captain Hook, idealized evil pirate. Or Touchstone, idealized clown. Dumbledore, idealized wizard. Sherlock Holmes, idealized detective (along with Poirot, Mrs. Marple etc).

cshakesOct 29, 20145 votes

Erm, if 90% of female champions are sexualized while only 26% of male champions are (I'm using your own numbers), then I do think that it's a problem.

What men think of as being The Women's Power Fantasy isn't necessarily women's own power fantasy.

MEMEME670Oct 29, 20143 votes

They said 9 or 10, not 9 out of 10. -_-

Final GirIOct 29, 201410 votes

To a straight man, perhaps the men in League aren't sexualized. I am a gay male, and I find the men pretty sexy usually. I do understand the reasoning for some of the sexy outfits on the women though that I see people complain about quite a bit.

Janna I see complaints about Janna quite a lot, why is she so scantily clad? She doesn't have to look like a slut, etc. Here are my reasons for Janna being dressed the way she does. Example A) In my mind, she is kind of slutty, for example, her quote about for only so much money a minute blah blah blah. Not to mention, she is a wind mage to all extents and purposes. She shouldn't be wearing a ton of clothes, the clothes she wears are minimal, it's not going to keep her down when she is throwing wind in your face.

Zyra Zyra is another champ I see get criticized from time to time for being sexy. My response is that she was a plant her whole life, she doesn't understand the concept of clothes, why would a plant need clothes?

Now let's go to a male champion that is has been sexualized.

Graves Graves for instance, older man, completely clothed, I know people are into older men, personally myself I am not. Now take his Pool Party skin. Damn he is hot. There was no reason to make him so buff and muscular, he fires guns, he doesn't punch and wrestle, why does he need to be so muscular? Not to mention a broad, hairy chest. Sexualized male champion. Not a kind of sort of sexualized, it's sexualized. I get that if you are a straight male, you won't view it as sexualized, for women and gay men though, yes, it's very sexy.

People have to realize, you have to take the good with the bad. Some girls are sexy, some don't feel the need to be sexy all the time. For example.

Irelia she is completely covered, she looks like she is ready to battle, she really doesn't look sexy at all. But now take her Frostblade skin, obviously Frostbutt Irelia is sexy.

Think of it this way, sometimes you get up in real life and put on sweatpants and a baggy hoodie. Sometimes you get up and spend forever making yourself look as sexy as possible. You have to take the good with the bad, as I said, there are other things to nit pick about rather then boob armor. Ahri's new splash art was reverted back to her old one because it didn't capture her character as well as the old splash art did.

Kayle's new splash art still looks powerful and strong, just like her old one. It's not like adding two bumps to her chest armor is changing that. She isn't going to be running around the fields of justice blushing and batting her eyelashes at the enemies, she is still going to punch them into the ground because she is powerful and strong. Just now it is more obvious she is a woman.

Edit: Not to mention, no one is going to want to run around on the fields of justice as a freaking nun, covered in clothes from head to toe. You don't play League of Legends because you want social justice and want the women you are running around as to be ugly. You play a champion because you like how they look and what they do.

XulsigaeOct 29, 201411 votes

But why does it need to be obvious she's a woman? Does that add to her character at all? Are we picking her because she's a woman, or because she's an angel with a flaming sword?

Also, Zyra may not understand the need for clothes, but she sure seems to understand cleavage, heels and other 'unplanty' things. It doesn't make sense to me that a plant being would need to be seen as sexy in the way that we humans view sexiness. If anything she'd be androgynous as most plants are hermaphroditic, having both male and female parts in their flowers.

blacknerdtakuOct 30, 20141 votes

Does it add to her character? Nobody knows. thats personally what i like about artistic choices like this. it can say a lot about her character, that wouldn't be known without dialouge. this can be seen in a multitude of ways

1: she is very proud of her Gender. there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to stand out. i mean her armor is already golden..... would it serve any practical use to wear golden armor in battle? Gold? a precious metal that probably shouldn't be damaged and is also incredibly heavy?

design choices are just that. with things like this it's definitely up to viewer interpretation.

XulsigaeOct 30, 20149 votes

Does it add to her character? Nobody knows. thats personally what i like about artistic choices like this. it can say a lot about her character, that wouldn't be known without dialouge. this can be seen in a multitude of ways

1: she is very proud of her Gender. there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting to stand out. i mean her armor is already golden..... would it serve any practical use to wear golden armor in battle? Gold? a precious metal that probably shouldn't be damaged and is also incredibly heavy?

design choices are just that. with things like this it's definitely up to viewer interpretation.

I don't think it does. Being proud of your gender doesn't mean you have to act in a way that is stereotypical. Being a proud woman doesn't mean she needs to wear heels to feel proud of being a woman. That's a rather narrow view of what women are like and doesn't fit thematically with her. She is from Mount Targon, a pretty tough place not renown for their appreciation of fashion. What makes a woman stand out and feel proud there is unlikely to be what's on her feet, and more likely her deeds in battle. I don't think it's gold, just gold in color. Could be bronze or some other alloy. Highly unlikely to be gold for the reasons you listed.

Design choices are made by the designers to fit the intended audience usually. They don't occur in a vacuum.

AbiwonKenabiOct 30, 20145 votes

Unless this has changed recently, Kayle isn't from Mount Targon, she's from "another world." It will probably change, but that's her backstory at the moment.

Otherwise I completely agree with this statement. The thing a lot of people don't get I think is that its not boob armor in general we're upset about, its the fact that boob armor doesn't fit Kayle's character.

Also, why was this comment down-voted? Perfectly reasonable argument.

cshakesOct 30, 20147 votes

Firstly, "standing out" != being easily identifiable as female. I think Kayle stands out already because, y'know, wings.

Secondly, boobplate, cleavage and other sorts of "look at my boobs/crotch" clothes don't say that the character is "proud of her gender". They say "look, I'm sexy!". Too often with female character design, "sexy" is tacked on as an afterthought, regardless of how unfitting it is to the character in question. Is Zyra's design improved by cleavage and heels? No, since "sexy" is not part of her core identity. Sure, sexy fits for, say, Ahri, but for most other female characters, it shouldn't just be tacked on.

Son of MuOct 30, 20142 votes

But why does it need to be obvious she's a woman? Does that add to her character at all? Are we picking her because she's a woman, or because she's an angel with a flaming sword?

Also, Zyra may not understand the need for clothes, but she sure seems to understand cleavage, heels and other 'unplanty' things. It doesn't make sense to me that a plant being would need to be seen as sexy in the way that we humans view sexiness. If anything she'd be androgynous as most plants are hermaphroditic, having both male and female parts in their flowers.

See, now when people start trying too hard to be "anti-sexist" or "anti-racist" they actually start saying some pretty sexist/racist things (out of ignorance). You asked why does it need to be obvious she's a woman? Because when you design a character, you have to decide if they'll be a woman, man, or some kind of unisex monster. Making a man have biceps and a woman have breasts should not be inherently offensive; you're way too sensitive to the point of being sexist yourself. Let me explain. You just (probably accidentally) implied that Riot shouldn't have made it obvious she's a woman. What you're saying, though, is that they should've made her dressed more like a man (because there are only two biological sexes). You're implying there's something wrong with looking like a woman. Which is sexist. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exaggerated manly features in a fantasy game, just as there is absolutely nothing wrong with exaggerated womanly features in a fantasy game.

XulsigaeOct 30, 20146 votes

But why does it need to be obvious she's a woman? Does that add to her character at all? Are we picking her because she's a woman, or because she's an angel with a flaming sword?

Also, Zyra may not understand the need for clothes, but she sure seems to understand cleavage, heels and other 'unplanty' things. It doesn't make sense to me that a plant being would need to be seen as sexy in the way that we humans view sexiness. If anything she'd be androgynous as most plants are hermaphroditic, having both male and female parts in their flowers.

See, now when people start trying too hard to be "anti-sexist" or "anti-racist" they actually start saying some pretty sexist/racist things (out of ignorance). You asked why does it need to be obvious she's a woman? Because when you design a character, you have to decide if they'll be a woman, man, or some kind of unisex monster. Making a man have biceps and a woman have breasts should not be inherently offensive; you're way too sensitive to the point of being sexist yourself. Let me explain. You just (probably accidentally) implied that Riot shouldn't have made it obvious she's a woman. What you're saying, though, is that they should've made her dressed more like a man (because there are only two biological sexes). You're implying there's something wrong with looking like a woman. Which is sexist. There is absolutely nothing wrong with exaggerated manly features in a fantasy game, just as there is absolutely nothing wrong with exaggerated womanly features in a fantasy game.

No, I think that a character should be defined by what they do, not just what they look like. Exaggerated features are not defining features of a character. Kayle having a breast plate doesn't make her more of a woman. There are many ways to be a woman. Kayle is a warrior. She doesn't need to show her curves to be a woman. Women aren't a single group defined by one or two aspects, (i.e. breast size). Kayle is called 'she' and has a female voice over. Why isn't that enough to make it obvious she's a woman? Why do we need curves to make it so? Should she also conform to another stereotype just to make it even more obvious? We have other champions where that is much more thematically appropriate and I have no problem with them. Ahri, MF, LB, even Sona, I don't mind how they are portrayed.

I think saying 'Make it obvious she's a woman' is putting a limitation on what women should look like. Is a flat chested woman less a woman than someone with an ample bosom? Is a woman that doesn't act or look like stereotypical woman less a woman somehow? Is a man without a beard less than a man with one (I'm assuming you aren't Olaf)? Shouldn't it be obvious what the character is and what their role is before what their gender is?

cshakesNov 1, 20146 votes

The largest problem with having women be exaggeratedly women is that often men are allowed to be the archetype (barbarian, swordman etc) while women are just women. This means that female characters are more boring, since while male characters are allowed to be barbarians who incidentally happen to be men, women are pigeonholed into being women who incidentally happen to be barbarians. Less character diversity -> bad.

GrossOct 30, 201412 votes

I am a gay male, and even if I find most of the male champions handsome, I feel none of them are sexualized or spark any sexual desire in me when it comes to their splash or model ingame. If Riot went the same route with male designs as they go with female designs, we'd have male champions like:

http://i.imgur.com/E9G70Bf.jpg

(Notice bulge, pecs, nipples, tight and sexy/revealing clothing, exaggarated features)

Another example http://i.imgur.com/QfxQztO.jpg

(scantily clad, some emphasis on the crotch, and in general an outfit that is revealing, skintight and screams '' seductor '')

But we don't. So I think it's pretty faulty to say men are sexualized in this game just for being handsome/sexy. You can be a sexy wo/man without being sexualized. Being sexy =/= being sexualized. Everyone finds different things sexy, but it's pretty damn easy to spot if something is sexy, or just plain whored out to the point of '' sex sells '' and shit. I doubt any of the male characters were designed to spark any desire, female characters on the other hand...

Or am I wrong?

Final GirIOct 30, 20141 votes

Why is everyone so insistent on having a pissy fit over sexy women in this game? You really want to run around as some ugly woman who looks like she was hit with a blender 12 times? No, people don't want that.

GrossOct 30, 20148 votes

Did you even read my post?

I am fine with sexy, I am even fine with female champions being sexualized just for the sake of selling sex. That's fine, good, but I am for equality, meaning I want male champions to be sexualized as well. But they aren't, and it's not cool.

This game is basically saying '' we want to pander to the straight male audience and not care about practicality of someone's clothing, we just want to sell sex and portray women as objects of male desire. '' I'm not even a feminist, I just want equality, I want my male champions to be scantily clad seductors as much as the female champions.

I think you need to read this thread more, it's not just about sexualization, but it's also about Kayle's image being ruined a bit, and impracticality of the breastplate.

UncensoredAngelOct 29, 20143 votes

Jinx XD not sexualized pls go to Reddit or just look up jinx shes the hot crazy bitch

cshakesOct 29, 20145 votes

Pleaese don't try to dictate my preferences. I'm bi, and imo the most attractive male champion in League is Vel'Koz.

Final GirIOct 29, 20144 votes

Mine were just examples of course. I didn't mean to offend you but keeping out the sexy Mr. Vel.

cshakesOct 29, 20146 votes

Yeah, I understand. The problem is, I and most of my female friends don't actually find those über-muscled men good-looking. Media has probably misled you on the issue. Don't worry too much, but I highly recommend thinking about the linked stuff for a while.

JakethenightOct 29, 20143 votes

Nami has air bladders, not boobs. Airbladders are what allow fish to float at whatever 'altitude' in the sea they want. Actually kind of makes sense.

Final GirIOct 29, 20149 votes

When writing that comment I thought about a comic I saw with her breasts being air bladders. I assume you have seen it as well. But seeing as they are never explicitly called airbladders anywhere in real lore or anything, it's safe to assume they are breasts.

XulsigaeOct 29, 20148 votes

When writing that comment I thought about a comic I saw with her breasts being air bladders. I assume you have seen it as well. But seeing as they are never explicitly called airbladders anywhere in real lore or anything, it's safe to assume they are breasts.

Airbladders...on the chest...where most female humanoids have breasts...displayed in similar ways to breasts...yeah...not buying it. I believe air or swim bladders are more in the main body of the of fish anyway, not sticking out.

CataclysmCrashOct 29, 20147 votes

When writing that comment I thought about a comic I saw with her breasts being air bladders. I assume you have seen it as well. But seeing as they are never explicitly called airbladders anywhere in real lore or anything, it's safe to assume they are breasts.

I mean they're breasts in the sense that chickens have breasts. Nami has no nips, her skin just sort of jutts off into aesthetic fins that gives the impression when you actually look at it that someone has started to skin her for a nice fillet. Can't unsee.

Basically how I feel about this is already mentioned:

Armor is a tool. It does not need to portray a gender identity. The kind of people who get upset when they find a character they like is a girl are restricted to extreme sexists and 10 year old boys. Kayle doesn't need boobplates, Samus doesn't need rocket high heels, etc.

Kayle is supposed to be the antithesis of Morgana as well. They both have righteous bodies, but Kayle hides it practically while it's a mystery how Morgs bra stays on.

At least don't try to pretend like those boob plates exist for clarity lol. Those boob plates exist because a metal rack is sexier than no rack.

BavalOct 29, 201417 votes

A woman on the battlefield would need to keep their breasts taped down, or they would lose a lot of effectiveness when utilizing a sword as Kayle does. Therefore, the boobplate design seen on Kayle, modest or not, is bad design. It takes the problem of having large breasts on arm mobility and makes it immobile. Id post my reference but it seems Skallagrim has made it private.

BavalOct 29, 201426 votes

Also, on a personal opinion note, I like that Kayles armor is gender ambiguous. It means that she doesn't care much about how her armor looks, its just a tool and she doesn't feel the need to inform her opponent shes female, or if the practical stance is taken, values her combat efficiency more than comfort or gender identity.

AbiwonKenabiOct 30, 20146 votes

Exactly this. I don't mind "feminine" qualities, just keep them on characters who care about that sort of thing. Kayle does not.

SolideusOct 29, 20146 votes

You're right, it's not super practical, but it's visual design choice, like her golden armour not being for practical reasons. It's a fantasy armour made to look good, it's not mean to be practical in real life. Her tiny wings being able to carry her in plate armour would be a bigger obstacle than arm reach. That sort of armour is probably pretty hard to move in in general, which is okay, because she mostly throws magical fire with the sword anyway.

FeatherztormOct 29, 20146 votes

Tiny wings huh? I see no such thing.

FantasySniperOct 29, 20143 votes

The average human would need a wingspan of at least twice their height to be capable of efficient flight , as in they're actually flying, not flopping around in the air trying to just stay off the ground. Then there's the fact that Kayle is wearing armor, which is specifically built for protection and will certainly be heavy.

But unfortunately this is all pointless bickering when she has magical fire, the ability to boost her metabolism on a whim, and is a being from another universe entirely.

FeatherztormOct 30, 20146 votes

Look at both her new and old splash works. Her wingspan is at least twice her height, and pretty beefy at that, and it looks like her wings aren't even stretched all the way out. Hummingbirds have tiny wings that allow them to fly how the please, just adding that for an fyi. But back to the topic. In game, her wings look a little small, but more than likely at least twice her height as well.

AbiwonKenabiOct 30, 20146 votes

You're right, it's not super practical, but it's visual design choice, like her golden armour not being for practical reasons. It's a fantasy armour made to look good, it's not mean to be practical in real life.

Normally, I'd agree with you; I dont mind boob plates and other design choices that are present simply to look cool or interesting. However, I only agree with this sentiment if its appropriate for the character. It is not appropriate for Kayle's character, and that's the biggest problem I have with it. Kayle is a character who clearly doesn't feel compelled to be girly or feminine. Her only concern is her duty to justice, so she wouldn't have things like boob plates or whatever.

UncensoredAngelOct 29, 20142 votes

Its more of a wand the way she uses it

AbodyHUN666Oct 30, 20141 votes

What if that is the smallest size she could squeze her breasts into? As I know they are quite sensitive to being pressed down.

BavalOct 30, 20146 votes

If that was/is the case, she would be better served pressing them together and having a tapered breastplate like the breastplate used by Samus. This way she would minimize the amount the shape would get in the way of her mobility. By having them spread out as they are, she has a much more difficult time bringing her arm across her chest, which is crucial for swordfighting especially since she doesn't use a shield.

However it should be noted both her in game model and her old splash has a very flat breastplate, so Kayle is clearly not well endowed in that regard, which is beneficial for a warrior.