Can we talk about defensive options?

ChaosReyn·12/31/2019, 7:59:09 PM·5 votes·3,877 views

I mean...I just wanna point out that currently, there's some pretty heavy discrimination out right now in terms of defense. Namely, there's not a lot of defensive options for mages vs AD, but plenty of defensive options for AD vs mages.

Now, the usual defense for this is "oh, but all mages are bursty, and AD aren't." And let's just make one thing clear... Graves JarvanIV Kayn Nocturne Khazix Rengar Talon Zed ...and other situational ones (example...Cait isn't a burst champion, but if she gets ahead she may as well be when one crit is 75%+ of someone's hp...) Main point: there are PLENTY of burst AD champs, and there are also plenty of mages that ARENT burst mages. Yet...there's only ONE armor/AP item in zhonyas, which is easily counterplayed by just forcing it and then shitting on the guy in 2s, while AD get the Hexdrinker line AND the edge of night, both of which give a straight burst negation (with no counterplay or even interaction) while still getting plenty of AD stats. I could start listing all the HP/Damage sources, but my next argument is going to get into that anyway...though I will still mention Sterak's, cause even though it's a bruiser item it's ANOTHER anti-burst shield that still gives offensive stats.

Now speaking of stats...the second argument is "well defensive items are garbage to buy as a burst AD cause you lose offensive stats" and that's just straight garbage for multiple reasons. For starters, building AD items naturally gives you stronger autoattacks, so even if you lose BURST stats on some of these burst AD champs (and I know you're losing burst potential in Sterak's...), you're still automatically winning in damage against mages in a sustained fight with exception to battlemages. Mages have weak autoattacks. And secondly, again with the exception to battlemages, almost every mage item that gives something like HP/AP is nowhere near as strong as all of the HP/AD item defenses AD has against AP, because again it goes to point #1 - if burst mages build all these HP/AP defensive items, they're no longer bursty, and they ALSO automatically lose sustained fights because their autoattacks are dealing like 70 premitigated damage, and the AD unit is dealing like 325 premitigated damage on every hit. And that's not counting AD Crit chance. Bottom line: You dont NEED burst AD to beat a burst mage, if the burst mage can't burst you. Meanwhile, If the burst mage tries building defensively against AD, they just throw their damage in the gutter and STILL lose a sustained fight since they can't trade back in autos against someone autoattacking for 5x their damage.

Mages need better defensive options against burst AD. Like an AP-blocks-AD version of a hexdrinker would be nice. Something that gives a good defensive option against burst AD to the point that they have to reset just like burst mages do when the Hexdrinker pops and they're on cooldown, and something that a sustained AD champ would really not care about that much because they're still more than able to do their job of chunking people over time.

18 Comments

galdamesh12/31/2019, 9:38:13 PM6 votes

I mean.... zhonya's is the best defensive item in the game... bar none...

so complaining about mages only having access to the best item is a little silly.

zhonya's active is so good they had to make stop watch build into other items so ad could buy one reliable.

ProphetOfDraven12/31/2019, 9:44:18 PM5 votes

Wait what the fuck how the hell is there alot of AD choices vs AP? You literally have item 3155 and item 3111, thats it. God damn man you literally got item 3157 the best defensive item in the game and you still crying for more.

You realize bruisers ARE SUPPOSED to beat mages 1v1 right? Thats literally the only thing bruisers have going for them, and the only weakness mages have.

macspam12/31/2019, 9:40:21 PM3 votes

There is also a shortage of armor items for AD champs such as ADCs. Currently the only option is ninja tabis or chain vest / guardian angel.

FroXZenBuLLet1/1/2020, 2:48:18 PM3 votes

Ok let's have a nice normal civil disscusion. Ok so the first thing to note is that mages are the best class in the game rn and it's not even close. They unarguably and objectively have the best items in the game including zhonyas, the best defensive item. item 2420 can litteraly remove a champion from a team fight (if Zed/Rengar/Talon jump on let's say Syndra) while simultaneously building into the previusly mentioned item 3157 (interestingly Zhonyas also has the best building path in the game). Ok then you say that item 3814 and item 3155 are OP and i can kinda see it on edge of night but note that item 3102 is still superior than item 3814 and it is again, not even close. As for item 3155 it's a laughable, overpriced item that heavily falls off mid game. Then, assassins can build item 3053 and be OP (one shot, can't die). That is, in fact, false. Steraks is expensive and not worth it for assassins not to mention if you build item 3053 then you cannot build item 3155 (same unique passive). So yeah then you say if mages build defensive then they do no damage which is again, incorrect. Case point: item 3157 item 3165 item 3151 item 3027 item 3003. A lot of hp, great damage. If you have anything to add or you think im wrong please tell me but in a nice manner, I do not tolarate idiots.

Jennifer171/1/2020, 6:11:26 AM2 votes

whats a defensive option? what are you talking about? - rito

2gudaiya1/2/2020, 5:56:18 PM2 votes

sorry OP, you fucked up. the authorities will be arriving shortly, you should have known better than to talk about defensive items in league of legends while on the boards.