...can we please wait until we see the actual changes and then flood the boards with complaints if we don't like it? Just think of the amazing rework that Sion got and realize that the changes could in fact improve him as a champion. When Riot tries to do 
horrible 
things 
to him, then you can still express your displeasure.
AuraSilver27 votesYou just can't improve upon perfection.
Meep Man7 votesIf Vel'Koz is perfect, why is he hardly ever picked? Everyone should love him if he is perfect. The perfect Mage?
BetweenSkill29 votesBecause people like to play OP champs, not balanced ones.
AuraSilver2 votesI also think people are just more likely to play humanoid characters.
BetweenSkill5 votesTell that to release Rek'Sai
Baron Von Bangin16 votesSee, "Because people like to play OP champions..."
BetweenSkill8 votes........... that's my comment.....
Malicious Metal1 votesOne of the reasons Skarner's never picked.
For Carthage3 votesOther than Skarner lacking a coherent identity between his lore, character, and kit.
Literally boils down to "crystal scorpion" in his gameplay. Which sounds cool in concept - boring in practice.
Count Zubat5 votesTbh, Vel'Koz isn't picked because there aren't too many reasons to pick him over other poke-burst immobile champions, like Ziggs, Lux or Xerath, for example. I'm not saying his weak or something, he's just Jack of all trades. Long range poke? Check. CC? Check. Quite good burst? Check. But when you think about it, there are better alternatives to certain situations. If you want burst, you pick Lux. Wanna CC? Take Ziggs. Long range? Xerath. There are hardly ever situations where picking Vel over other mages is beneficial.
Tannhäuser Gate2 votesHe is like a healthy lee sin; a good generalist.
Lumen Sage1 votesI take him bot lane as support for that reason because his high base damage shines in a position where he gets less gold. Rylais for his other abilities, along with low CD Q, makes him pretty good at kitting and if you have a tank top or jungle he can add some nice extra nuke or balance out the the composition with a more traditional mage after you get a AD assasin for mid.
I hope his rework wont destroy that option for me.
Count Zubat1 votesWhy build Rylai if Vel's Q already has better slow?
Lumen Sage1 votesRight my bad on that part, I meant that Rylai on his other abilities, in addition to the slow on his low CD Q makes him pretty good at kiting. It also helps his Ultimate significatly, easier to keep an enemy within it if they are slowed 40% instead of 20%.
In general I just see Rylai as a nice item to have on him in the support role as it gives you AP, a bit of utility and some health so you are less vulnerable to enemy poke and/or burst.
Feathermane4 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=76O15b4x,comment-id=0001000000000001,timestamp=2016-01-22T21:00:37.722+0000)
Tbh, Vel'Koz isn't picked because there aren't too many reasons to pick him over other poke-burst immobile champions, like Ziggs, Lux or Xerath, for example. I'm not saying his weak or something, he's just Jack of all trades. Long range poke? Check. CC? Check. Quite good burst? Check. But when you think about it, there are better alternatives to certain situations. If you want burst, you pick Lux. Wanna CC? Take Ziggs. Long range? Xerath. There are hardly ever situations where picking Vel over other mages is beneficial.
You pick Ziggs for CC? What, do you own 6 champions in total?
Count Zubat2 votesI am talking about long range poke mages, and let's be honest, Ziggs has great zoning tools.
pinkyblossom1 votesExactly.
Wyrmblade1 votesEvery time I think about picking Vel'koz, I remember Zed and Fizz exist and go play top lane instead.
It's a shame because I fucking love vel'koz.
Ragnar421 votesYeah, the problem with any fix they make to Vel' is that they won't actually give him counterplay to Fizz. Zed, Yas, Akali, Talon, or anyone else that can burst him before he's able to react.
But really there aren't a lot of mages that can handle a bursty assassin in lane. You farm, farm, farm under tower and hope you can stay far enough ahead, and poke the assassin hard enough that he doesn't want to dive you for that level 7 under turret kill....
BetweenSkill15 votesThe issue is that changes are rarely RARELY reverted or changed back in some form after they have gone through. The only time significant reworks or changes have been reverted have not happened past the PBE stage. Once it hits live, it's only moving forward from there.
LiveYiOrDieHard10 votesWhile old Sion was a cheeseball pile of crap, the truth is I see less Sions now than I did before. And he's considered one of their few "SUCCESSFUL" reworks.
I'm sorry, but at this point Riot does not deserve the benefit of the doubt. Most of their reworks are awful. Morde is so bad I don't understand how a fully functioning human being could have allowed it to go live.
As an ex fiora main, I have to put up with my favorite champion no longer being a part of the game. Instead she's replaced with a kit stuffed full with a little bit of everything to the point it's just ridiculous, just like most of the rest of Riot's new champions. I've seen people call that a successful rework, but the current Fiora is just broken. People only enjoy playing her because of how OP she is right now.
So whenever they announce they're reworking a currently decent champion, I have to ask, WHY?
WHY REMOVE ANOTHER DECENTLY DESIGNED CHAMPION FROM THE GAME WHEN THEY'RE JUST GOING TO REPLACE IT WITH AN ABOMINATION?
It doesn't make any sense.
Keevalroy2 votesIt doesn't make any sense.
It does if you don't think about it. Oops, I spoiled the secret. :v)
MohawkBird11 votes[deleted]
Ragnar422 votesYou see less Sion's because he's been nerfed so much, not because his kit was a failure.
I think he's been nerfed to a point of "unplayable" though when you consider the current toplane/jungle meta. So wouldn't that make his kit a failure. We overtuned his kit so bad we had to nerf him into oblivion so that he couldn't single-handedly destroy games?
What kind of BS nerfs did he get too? Nerfing shout because he could poke? Nerfing his Shield because it gave far too much sustain in lane?
When Sion gets to the late game, he can't deal enough damage to any life-stealing AD's to out damage their sustain. He literally becomes a sort of battery for them to subsist on while he limps at the enemy hoping to land an E that will parlay into a Q. He's better off not being a part of the teamfight.
Sion was a failure. His kit is fun as hell, and feels powerful, and had a ton of mastery and artwork poured into him. And he's only good in casual games.
Retillin1 votesA question. If Riot thinks that a current Sion is the healthiest Sion (after the nerfs) then did they do a great job reworking him? He's better over all than the old Sion, but if he's only "healthy" when nerfed, it seems they messed up somewhere.
ShadowParker1 votesFioras rework was a success though. She's now more of a duelist then ever. She has much more depth and mastery now.
You can't argue that her old ult was healthy in any way.
LiveYiOrDieHard2 votesFioras rework was a success though. She's now more of a duelist then ever. She has much more depth and mastery now.
You can't argue that her old ult was healthy in any way.
More of a duelist? Old Fiora actually had to fight people because she couldn't dash away at the first sign of trouble. New Fiora just runs away if she starts losing. And her current ult is any better? Nevermind her new parry which is ridiculous.
Depth? Mastery? You mean her retarded little minigame? Such depth and mastery let me tell you. It's really fun to play run in circles around the opponent to do 150% of their maximum health in true damage, such a well-designed mechanic.
ShadowParker1 votesOld Fiora would press e to gain an attack speed boost+ plus movement speed boost. Her q was point and click and her w parried one free auto. Dueling a fiora was stupid because it was Hella easy to play Fiora. Her ult is far more healthier then her old one. Her parry is actually useful now and takes some skill to use it.
She does have more depth and mastery. The "minigame" is far easier to deal with then her just autoing you. Not too mention you can actually play around it with good positioning.
LiveYiOrDieHard1 votesOld Fiora would press e to gain an attack speed boost+ plus movement speed boost. Her q was point and click and her w parried one free auto. Dueling a fiora was stupid because it was Hella easy to play Fiora. Her ult is far more healthier then her old one. Her parry is actually useful now and takes some skill to use it.
She does have more depth and mastery. The "minigame" is far easier to deal with then her just autoing you. Not too mention you can actually play around it with good positioning.
Movespeed boost didn't take affect until you auto'd something, please, did you ever even play fiora before the shiny new rework? She was one of the hardest champions to escape from bad situations with in the entire game.
The minigame is pointless bull just like skarner's spires, sounds cool in Riot's internal discussions I'm sure, in actuality is not even remotely fun or interesting.
Retillin2 votesShe's not a duelist now. She's a melee poke champion now.
Doctor Jarvis5 votesWhy use Ryze as an example? He's AWESOME.
Count Zubat4 votesWhile I can agree that his rework wasn't bad, the memories of perma-snare Ryze still exist in consciousness of some players...
Remlap12236 votesIt still exists. There's a reason he's not being buffed.
MunchCrunchLunch2 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=76O15b4x,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-01-22T21:02:35.786+0000)
While I can agree that his rework wasn't bad, the memories of perma-snare Ryze still exist in consciousness of some players...
memories? am pretty sure he can still perma snare you
Keevalroy5 votesJust think of the amazing rework that Sion got and realize that the changes could in fact improve him as a champion.
Sion's old kit was fundamentally flawed and incredibly toxic, so a rework was necessary, same for Poppy. Vel'Koz is one of the healthiest and most balanced champions ever made, meaning any change would be fixing what isn't broken, changing something purely for the sake of change.
Also for your examples, you are aware of how disgusted the playerbase was when each of those 3 had their update reveals? Did you notice something changing about them before they were launched indicating the event of devs working with the fanbases? Me neither.
This is a very bad idea, even if it's minor. Someone else needs to take Vel's place.
MohawkBird1 votes[deleted]
Keevalroy1 votesI was talking about Morde, Cass, and Ryze mentioned in the OP.
Wyrmblade5 votesRiot will never revert changes they make, so the only way we can stop this is to stop the changes before they happen.
Alphadef5 votesThe problem is that if your name isn't Lee Sin once those changes go up, there isn't any going back.
Sneakyy XD5 votes...can we please wait until we see the actual changes and then flood the boards with complaints if we don't like it?
Because that's worked so well before
Even if a proactive approach won't work, it's still worth a shot.
LrgBeard4 votesI agree, but what I'm worried about is that the first we'll see of the changes will be when they're released onto the PBE and by that point it'll be too late to voice an opinion. I feel like Riot should do a followup thread once they have some of the changes hammered out to see what the community has to say about them, or at the very least give use a heads up as to what we can expect. This would give us at least a little peace of mind knowing that we aren't going to be blindsided when it comes to the PBE.
I would just hate to see him be released unbalanced or broken since many of us see him as one of (if not the) most well balanced mages.
Meteor Driz3 votesVel Koz is one of my favorite champions of all time
And I am open to a rework. Build the entire kit around his lazer.
Baron of Bread2 votesIf you like playing Vel'Koz as a long range poke/dps mage then you don't want what happened to Sion happening to him. Sion was an original Juggernaut or burst mage. He was no tank, he was a nearly unstoppable (if done well) murder machine.
As much as I love the new Sion, I don't wish what happened to him to happen to any other person's main.
ShaftyMegee2 votesWait ryze is great.
Oberic3 votesRyze has gone through more reworks than I've gone through socks.
Reworks Are OP2 votesyou forgot gangplank. love his rework even though it was small and no hes not op for 90 percent of us who arnt masters or in lcs
Kristari Zuboro2 votesMy issues with the reworks:
There are champions that need it more, because they're fairly worthless and less played than the champions they're tagging for rework. The ONLY reasons they are working these champs is that all of them can kick ass. Riot doesn't like champs that can win. Most likely, the guy in charge of reworks, got his ass handed to him by these champs... and well, we can't have that!
BastionKross1 votesJust think of the amazing rework that Sion got and realize that the changes could in fact improve him as a champion.
Okay.
Retillin1 votesI'll be honest, I'm a bit biased as Poppy is my favourite champion. But I am not a fan of her rework. I loved her as the juggernaut/assassin/bruiser/whatever. She wasn't a tank, she drove fear into enemies. Now she's just an anti mobility use, and a disengage. She doesn't have that feel of a fearsome little warrior anymore.
