Regarding the runic echo buff revert

So I take it this will help Fiddle quite a bit as well? He's been suffering a fair bit under the new Runes and I'd like to see my favourite scarecrow in a lovely position in the meta

I have played aot of different junglers and due to them not feeling well i resorted into playing 2-3 games with them and then stop. A thing ive noticed is that with the jungle changes and rune changes lot of junglers cant keep up with the other, so rather then buffing runic echoes have you guys tried adding new types of smites? 90% of the junglers go red smite and occasionally blue one.

Edit* or increase the xp you get when behind?

Have you ever thought of bringing back runeglaive (May not be the correct name, but I'm talking about the lich bane jungle item that used to exist) as an extra option for ap junglers? As of now, ad junglers have 2 choices (warrior or bloodrazor) and all ap champs are stuck with runic echoes :c

Looking for one that helps out struggling Runic Echoes users more than it does AP champs who already do well in the jungle.

What champions fit in these categories? Fiddlesticks? I think he needs more help than that.

I thought the buff to Runic Echoes was just to cancel out the nerf to Spellthief/Frostfang that will affect Evelynn and Nidalee.

Isn't the problem with AP junglers is the fact that they are limited by not being able to auto as well as normal junglers and can't survive mobs like tanks can? It seems like buffing a finished item would happen too late to help them out much. If anything I would think the problem lies in not being good enough to help AP champs on their first clear combined with the fact that doesn't work with their main damage plus they can't go precision for the AS buff that would help them out.

Theoretically, something like a minilich bane or mini-nashors would work well on them since they need to auto and those effects would help out their weakness, or perhaps an effect which lets their spells do 35% more damage to jungle creeps. Still, even those things come too late. I also wouldn't want the mini-lichbane because Ezreal will somehow bleep it up.

Do you think it might not be the items rather the lack of mobility/ spells for damage is the issue. It seem more like their Kits are to par.

The amount of CC mobility and damage is why they aren't good imo. Adding more damage isn't the problem. (sure everything have assassin damage but this is a whole other issue)

Look at the kits of the good junglers what do they all have in common. Look at the AA and animation what do they all have in common.

As a fiddle man Damage isn't his issue. (besides it only coming from one spell if nothing is close to bounce off of. Everything is in favor of AD for the jungle. Runes, mobs, starting items, etc

If I may put my 2 cents in here

As someone who likes to play JG Karthus, I feel like one of the reasons I almost never upgrade to Runic Echoes is because of the fact that it's just not as useful to me as say, just upgrading to Blue Smite (sometimes not even do that) and then work on either Tear or Haunting Guise.

Perhaps the problem is the fact that Runic Echoes itself is just a slightly watered down version of , an Item that is popular on Burst Champs, but not so much on DPS champs, which correlates to the fact that Junglers who use Runic best are champs like Elise, Nidalee, and other AP Burst champs/assassins.

Maybe the solution lies in making a new JG Enchant? Something that is a good fit for DPS Mages but not as much for Burst? (and something Ezreal can't break preferably lol) I'd consider either putting in Guise (because it's literally only ever used for 1 item), or Catalyst (because a JG Catalyst item would be cool)

Doing that still wont change underperforming ap junglers :/