Ivern's passive lays down that grove and can be clicked once it's matured to free the beasties. However, a smite will automatically release them. Does smiting a grove still work if Ivern is not the one using it? For instance, 
jungling and 
support. If lays down a grove, can smite that camp for the instant release? Otherwise, it seems as though that passive is useless outside of jungling. It really limits the usability of the new champ.
Killstrado2 votes*cough *cough.......He's a jungler not a support for this reason! This is the entire reason his win rate is low. People keeps thinking they are better off taking him support because of how his kit is even though you take the biggest part of it away and stick him in a lane with an adc that will expect him to move mountains.
Udyr has to do the whole camp...ivern cannot leash or help and no one can help ivern....
Keepe1 votesOf course he's not a support! Because... Well, what sort of support can Shield the ADC? What sort of support can snare an opponent and allow the ADC to easily get into Auto Attack Range or allow a disengage? What sort of support can set up a defensive brush to help escape, engage, or just make the enemy nervous? What sort of support has an ultimate that offers multiple AoE knock ups that can be used, again, for both Defensive or Offensive purposes? Whether he is Jungle or not, he's still a bloody support.
LXII3 votesIf you take him bot lane you're giving up a passive. I think that was the original point here, not that he absolutely can't support.
IcyPepper1 votesI don't see why people don't just make him a roaming support akin to Bard. Maybe (and so I mean maybe) take smite over flash, and occasionally invade the enemy jungle or something.
LXII2 votesEh, I play him in the jungle and I've been destroying. I don't think he would be nearly as useful in the bot lane. I might try it out sometime though.
Keepe1 votesWhen you hear "OH MAH GAWD HE'S NOT A SUPPORT" as often as I do, you kinda get sick of the rhetoric.
LXII1 votesFair enough lol
Talisid1 votesTechnically his passive still works as a support you're just losing most of it.
Support Ivern's passive is "After level 5 when your jungler clears Blue/Red buff camps it drops an extra buff that you can pick up."
Killstrado1 votesOk so let's take a champion out of the jungle (the thing he's designed for) and put him in a roll where he'll be underfed, no cs, masteries and a build disadvantage because he has to take support role items and can't stack strength of ages....don't look at just the kit man. Also learn how he plays before making uninformed opinions
Keepe1 votesLevel 7 Mastery. Learn how he plays before making uninformed opinions.
Killstrado1 votesIf you're mastery 7 why do you have so many losses, that tells me you play him a lot but haven't learned anything, not to mention you take him support way to much lol
Keepe1 votesI have losses because sometimes there are issues that are out of my control. Like Twisted Fate Jungle for instance.
I am not saying he's the perfect support in a duo lane, but from my experience he benefits more as a support than he does a Jungler.
Killstrado1 votesI'm telling you man you'll have a more fun and fulfilling experience if you get the jungle game down. And it opens up the support role for a better pick. Trust me man it just takes time but you'd love it
Keepe1 votesI disagree. Though I will admit one of my best Ivern moments was in the jungle vs Graves. I thought he'd start Gromp, he started Krugs. I just missed him after taking his red. He chased me back into my jungle and tried to take my blue, which was Groved. -Smites- Graves: WHAT THE HELL IS THIS SH*T
LXII1 votesI play him exclusively in the jungle. You'll find maybe 1 or 2 ranked games I've lost with him. Same goes for the normals (minus the learning game and any event modes).
He destroys in the jungle, not so much as support.
Critmaster Garen1 votes{quoted} He's a jungler not a support for this reason!
hes both. hes a jungle support. what you mean is that hes not a duo lane support.
Killstrado1 votes5 roles in game top mid bot supp Jung. Ivernso role is a jungler.... I'm not referring to the fact he's labeled support like an assassin, marksman, or mage would be their respective champion types.
Rebonack2 votesHe could roam/support and instantly counter-jungle the enemy if he ran Smite.
xxBensonEUNxx1 votesi played ivern one game and i created a grove on grump, then i told my rengar who had smite to smite it and the grump started to attack him
Keepe1 votesNo, only Ivern can smite to insta-release a grove.
LXII1 votesThe passive IS literally useless outside of the jungle. Which is why you play him in the jungle.. or at the very least take smite in lane and go counter jungle when you have the chance.
notmarked1 voteso noooo ivern can't use his passive
whatever can his shields, vision denial, cc into gap closer, multi knock up ultimate + meatshield do without it.
Killstrado1 votesWhat you fail to realize is how far behind and useless he gets without farming, not to mention how hard and unreliable the ultimate is the shield main use is actually the slow it has because it's not that life saving lol chances are you haven't played him much either
LXII1 votes??? The shield gets HUGE, the slow is just icing on the cake.
Source: Mastery 5 Ivern.
The rest you're right about though.
Killstrado1 votesIf you build specifically for the shield: windspeaker, the one utility mastery I can't think of, athenes, and an ardent censor, yes it does get pretty sweet but that's 2 items a keystone and 5 mastery points that could be spent better in most cases
LXII1 votesI do literally none of that and still deliver monstrous shields.
notmarked1 votesWhat you fail to realize is how far behind and useless he gets without farming, not to mention how hard and unreliable the ultimate is the shield main use is actually the slow it has because it's not that life saving lol chances are you haven't played him much either
you mean a champion has a weakness because they aren't being played in a role they were intended for? one of those roles being support? which isn't about farming?
NO SHIT
CerealBoxOfDoom1 voteshe doesn't need smite to get it once it matures. If ivern goes to the enemy camp and marks it you could go steal it without even touching it or seeing it
Yallran1 votesAlthough one thing you can do to leash your jungler as an Ivern support would be spamming your passive on it but not letting Ivern actually place the grove thing. If the mob is in mid attack when Ivern attempts to place his passive it completely stops the mob from attacking. So if you just keep spamming it every single time the mob tries to attack your jungler you could give him a hard leash where no one takes damage and there is no big need to use smite. Actually something I learned a few hours ago because I got stuck with supp and my bud and I were just messing around. I forgot I couldn't leash so when I clicked on the mob Ivern kept trying to place his grove but I noticed how the mob would stop mid attack. A little bit of a tip that can kinda help out Ivern as a support! =D
