"This game has went downhill since Season 2"

yukonl·Sep 16, 2015·29 votes·2,358 views

Me: "You gotta admit item stacking was pretty unhealthy on Talon and Pantheon though."

"Wtf is that?"

Then I go check his profile history.

No games played in seasons 2 and 3.

Nice fucking try.

45 Comments

IncognonymousSep 17, 201511 votes

S2 was the best season.

-Tanks built resistances instead of becoming mobile health pools -Mobility wasn't trivialized -%HP Max/Current and True Damage were rare and revered -Dragon gave gold -GP/10 was acceptable in any lane -On hit items were rad as hell (except MBR) and could stand up to AD builds

Sire HippingtonSep 17, 20155 votes

to add: -tanks had meaningfull infight sustain from items (rip FoN) -bruisers(tanky dps with low/no cc) actually scaled into lategame.

MalzaharAnyLaneSep 17, 20151 votes

From late Season 2 onward though, the jungle being mandatory started to severely distort top lane's power, which created the mobility issues we see today.

Most of the worst offenders of mobility issues that weren't Kassadin or Nidalee were released and designed for top lane duelling exclusively and then would take their lead and steamroll the other lanes because of the gold disparity.

The gold disparity would never have been such a problem if their mobility necessary to survive lane phase in top lane wasn't being brought to devastating effect everywhere else.

Removing point and click CC has only started to severely exacerbate the problem.

67chromeSep 17, 20151 votes

From late Season 2 onward though, the jungle being mandatory started to severely distort top lane's power, which created the mobility issues we see today.

Jungler has always been mandatory at the tryhard level.

Only place jungler isn't mandatory is when you do the summoner level 1~20 adventures, as nobody has the runes/masteries to make it work well: and leaving a guy in a 1v2 lane is usually more detrimental than just running a 2v2 lane top.

Most of the worst offenders of mobility issues that weren't Kassadin or Nidalee were released and designed for top lane duelling exclusively and then would take their lead and steamroll the other lanes because of the gold disparity.

Riot hasn't really designed champions for a specific lane (outside of supports) until quite recently.

Also - outside of a few outliers, mobility has largely been justified on any given champion.

For the most part champions rely on Defense, Mobility, or Range to survive long enough to do their job - and most extremely mobile champions lack enough in the defense and range categories.

The gold disparity would never have been such a problem if their mobility necessary to survive lane phase in top lane wasn't being brought to devastating effect everywhere else.

You don't need mobility to survive top-lane. The most important thing has pretty much always been sustain up there. Solid mana sustain/manaless, solid health regen, those have generally been the keys.

Mobility is more the flavor of light melee champions. Because as a light champion it's not defense, and as a melee champion it's not range.

That hasn't precluded defense-heavy and largely immobile champions like Nasus, Darius, or more recently Maokai and Sion from being regular top picks.

Removing point and click CC has only started to severely exacerbate the problem.

Point-click skills aren't any better than skillshots in most situations.

Point-click skills are often ~50% the range of skillshots, and can't be timed to land on someone when they're moving into your range/coming out of zhonya's/in brush/in fog of war/in stealth as skillshots can.

Most point-click skillshots also have a substantial casting animation capable of letting a full Kat ult slide by: and with medium-range at best, they always put you in leaped-on-face range of an opponent.

With moderate foresight and aim, the only advantage point-click skills have over skillshots is that you can target someone in the middle of a minion wave/team-fight cluster without being blocked (but AoE skillshots can do that to).

NarasimhaSep 17, 20152 votes

You missed the single most important reason of all.

Draven joined the League

IncognonymousSep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You missed the single most important reason of all.

joined the League

And he had his old passive.

NarasimhaSep 17, 20151 votes

In retrospect, that passive was a bitch. "Oh you live? THINK AGAIN."

Kind of like Nocturne back in s2. Best ganks in the game at 6. Most terrifying jungler to play against at 6.

FakeGravitySep 17, 20155 votes

I just miss the unkillable tank soraka that blow you with unavoidable Qs

SoundChaosDebugSep 16, 20153 votes

I miss season 1 nidalee or when ADC twisted fate was gg in season 1-2

What I don't miss from back then was the Dodge mechanic on Ninja Tabi, fucking jax using his dodge skill then dodging with his boots...

Smegma123Sep 17, 20152 votes

malady was the worst item ever.

StaconaSep 17, 20153 votes

malady is combined into wits end now - also it was not the worst item; wits end right now is super underrated

Smegma123Sep 17, 20153 votes

worst as in worst to face. malady stacking yi/xin...the true terror

EddiotSep 17, 20151 votes

Oh so your one of those people that didnt buy the ignore dodge chance item(Old Executioner's calling I think).

SoundChaosDebugSep 17, 20151 votes

Back then I hardly understood the concept of the mechanics like I do now, I wouldn't of even understood that there are counter items.

N0rth WindSep 17, 20151 votes

Now I read these descriptions and cringe in terror

The Bearded BardSep 17, 20151 votes

It was sword of the divine. Executioner's calling was the badass 18% lifesteal for like 1800 gold, crit chance, and grievous wounds active.

WolfChasesSep 17, 20153 votes

Season 3

We could play: Ahri Akali Annie Amumu DrMundo Elise Ezreal Fiddlesticks Fizz Irelia JarvanIV Jax Kassadin Katarina Khazix LeeSin Leona Lissandra Malphite Morgana Nami Nasus Nidalee Orianna Pantheon Rammus Renekton Rengar Riven Rumble Ryze Shen Syndra Talon Thresh Trundle TwistedFate Twitch Vayne Volibear Warwick Xerath XinZhao Zed Ziggs Zilean Zyra

Season 4-5

Only champs that are worth now: Ahri Alistar Annie Azir Bard Braum Darius Diana Ekko Elise Evelynn Fiora Fizz Garen Gnar Gragas Irelia Janna Jinx LeeSin Mordekaiser Rengar Riven Thresh Tristana Vayne Viktor Vladimir Yasuo Nidalee

Not to mention that Azir Elise Fiora Fizz Garen Irelia Jinx Mordekaiser Nidalee Rengar Riven Thresh Vayne Yasuo

Are often banned so we have even smaller champ pool.

Meanwhile Riot: - "We want diversity"

ModAttysu The PoroSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Season 3

We could play:

Season 4-5

Only champs that are worth now:

Not to mention that

Are often banned so we have even smaller champ pool.

Meanwhile Riot: - "We want diversity"

I play a lot of Leona Lulu and they're so amazing to carry when played right against the right comp.

Amélie CauchemarSep 17, 20155 votes

{quoted}

Season 3

We could play:

Season 4-5

Only champs that are worth now:

Not to mention that

Are often banned so we have even smaller champ pool.

Meanwhile Riot: - "We want diversity"

Season 3:

Rengar Khazix Talon That's pretty much what your team consisted of.

KONO RUBICK DASep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Season 3:

That's pretty much what your team consisted of.

Ezreal Lissandra TwistedFate were FAR more broken and talon got nerfed 1 week before season 3,

Amélie CauchemarSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

were FAR more broken and talon got nerfed 1 week before season 3,

Ya. TF was definitely stronger than Rengar who built tank + triforce and could 1v4 under two turrets and get a quadra kill and live with 1/2 life left =B.

KONO RUBICK DASep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Season 3

We could play:

Season 4-5

Only champs that are worth now:

Not to mention that

Are often banned so we have even smaller champ pool.

Meanwhile Riot: - "We want diversity"

you missed a ton of champions in season 3 we could play Aatrox Ahri Amumu Caitlyn Corki Darius until nerf Draven Elise Evelynn Ezreal Fiddlesticks support Fizz Gragas Graves Hecarim Irelia Janna JarvanIV Jax Jayce Kassadin Katarina Kayle Kennen Khazix LeeSin Leona Lissandra Lulu Lux Malphite MissFortune Nami Nasus jungle Nautilus after buff Nidalee Nunu Olaf until nerf Orianna Pantheon jungle Renekton Rengar Riven Rumble Ryze Shen Singed until nerf Sivir after buff Sona Syndra Talon until nerf Taric until nerf Thresh Trundle TwistedFate Twitch Varus Vayne Volibear until nerf XinZhao until nerf Zac Zed Zyra support was still played which was 64/something like 110 champions

Meep ManSep 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Season 3

We could play:

Season 4-5

Only champs that are worth now:

Not to mention that

Are often banned so we have even smaller champ pool.

Meanwhile Riot: - "We want diversity"

NO! This is the ultimate interpretation if you only read the Boards. Play a oit of meta champion and you can WIN! Heim can win! Galio can win! Malzahar can win! You just dont play them to know! Play Brand, he wins a lot as Support. You just dont know it cause you guys are so tunnel visioned that you cant theorycraft around a meta.

Also, you obviously weren't around in Season 3. This was the pool: Top- Renekton DrMundo Shen Jungle- LeeSin Rengar Khazix Middle- Kassadin ADC- Actually a little diverse Support- Blitzcrank Leona Janna

Saying its went downhill since Season 2 is like those WoW fans that complain about everything past Vanilla. NO ONE LIKES YOUR COPMPLAINTS, GO FORM A CULT AND COMPLAIN IN PRIVATE!

KONO RUBICK DASep 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6iMVqruT,comment-id=00030003,timestamp=2015-09-17T13:03:28.153+0000)

NO! This is the ultimate interpretation if you only read the Boards. Play a oit of meta champion and you can WIN! Heim can win! Galio can win! Malzahar can win! You just dont play them to know! Play Brand, he wins a lot as Support. You just dont know it cause you guys are so tunnel visioned that you cant theorycraft around a meta.

Also, you obviously weren't around in Season 3. This was the pool: Top- Jungle- Middle- ADC- Actually a little diverse Support-

Saying its went downhill since Season 2 is like those WoW fans that complain about everything past Vanilla. NO ONE LIKES YOUR COPMPLAINTS, GO FORM A CULT AND COMPLAIN IN PRIVATE!

lol? Kennen Ryze Lissandra perma top and took 5 months to be nerfed Zac crushed all the champ you listed, and was so broken in teamfight with 75% tenacity. i think you're talking about season 4

Elise Evelynn were the jungle king and Nunu had 80% ban rate, i don't know if you ever played s3 man, rengar was nerfed in preason 3 and was never never picked again until rework kassadin being 90% banned wasn't in season 3, in fact Khazix had 87% ban rate and could cast Q and W while flying, never forget rip the bug. Taric him in s3? good thing he was nerfed in march

Meep ManSep 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

lol? perma top and took 5 months to be nerfed crushed all the champ you listed, and was so broken in teamfight with 75% tenacity. i think you're talking about season 4

were the jungle king and had 80% ban rate, i don't know if you ever played s3 man, rengar was nerfed in preason 3 and was never never picked again until rework kassadin being 90% banned wasn't in season 3, in fact had 87% ban rate and could cast Q and W while flying, never forget rip the bug. him in s3? good thing he was nerfed in march

I don't remember Ryze until much later, although I remember seeing Kennen a little bit. I don't remember Lissandra being spammed Top either or Zac except for a short time after release, like a patch or two. I remember Elise actually now that you mention it, although I'm pretty sure I remember her as a Top Lane lane bully instead of Jungler king. Evelynn... yeah I remember that now... a little bit. Nunu I remember, but not for a long time. I remember Rengar though with the extremely strong tower pushing. I kind of agree though, not sure what I was thinking of when I put Rengar there. I remember Kha trust me. Also, I was talking about end of Season 3 for Kassadin, during his rise to power. And yes, I remember the little time of Taric.

Still, this kind of proves my point that things weren't exactly BETTER in Season 3.

Faded LichSep 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

Me: "You gotta admit item stacking was pretty unhealthy on Talon and Pantheon though."

"Wtf is that?"

Then I go check his profile history.

No games played in seasons 2 and 3.

Nice fucking try.

Doesn't work on people like me who have lost there first account which was back in 2011 xP.

RespectPlusSep 17, 20153 votes

a good thing was the low mobility, fuck these new champs

Ferrous OxideSep 17, 20152 votes

Ya I started in S3 and until the juggernaut patch I have enjoyed the game more and more with every new release. The only thing I miss from back then was S3 supports, I liked that I could spend 3-5k on wards and carry games simply because I was a better warder than the entire Emmy team, I haven't enjoyed playing support since then. But I climbed from silver 5 to silver 1 in two days when I first started playing support and had a 74% win rate as support.

But overall the game is way better now than it was then.

PikmintsSep 17, 20151 votes

I also miss the way warding used to work. I'd keep track of how many pink wards the enemy support brought to lane and would watch for when they placed them so that I could place mine and run them out of wards and vision. Now being limited to 1 pink ward and a sweeper you can't get until level 9 that you can't use too frequently makes me feel like warding is much more of a guessing game.

I agree that the game has gotten better, but I wish I could buy charges on my sweeper instead of being forced to wait the full cooldown on it in order to remove enemy vision that may or may not be there.

IcefoxemilySep 17, 20152 votes

I've been playing and I still think the games better in season 2. It was fun and all about the teamfight and the bans were a good portion to champion ration. Now we have to many champs, heavily overloaded kits and op items like Sated Devourer. Riot is just wanting our cash now and lost sight of whats important. Like they Zyra update with her plants and them saying it might be to strong and yet this is the worlds patch where that could have huge impact on the game. Ya know cuz there isn't a PBE so I question why easy to identify bugs and op combos aren't seen earlier. What does the PBE do anymore besides be "Hey look whats going to happen in the next patch and we will only change something if every single person complains"

VicvictorwSep 17, 20152 votes

The only build you needed on Rammus:

item 3068

N0rth WindSep 17, 20151 votes

#1200 armor, 400 AD, 900 damage return on each enemy autoattack with W

ApexInTheCircleSep 17, 20152 votes

League of cleavers op.

Sire HippingtonSep 17, 20154 votes

that was preseason-3, not S2

ApexInTheCircleSep 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Don Pavoni,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6iMVqruT,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2015-09-17T12:59:38.637+0000)

that was preseason-3, not S2

Was mainly referring to league of cleavers being more unhealthy for Talon and Pantheon. And the only real issue I ever had with Item stacking was with Garen when sunfire capes stacked.

FalconPawwwwnchSep 17, 20151 votes

Lol? Cleaver stacking was season 3, not 2

Nice try

Season 2 was metagolem + gp10 + shurelias + wriggles + wit's end

ConturbatioSep 17, 20151 votes

The good old times...... I honestly miss the item stacking meta T_T

item 3068

5000000000000000Sep 17, 20151 votes

BRING BACK FORCE OF NATURE

(nobody will suspect that I started only like a year ago)

KyoukocolaSep 17, 20151 votes

I remember when Sunfire Cape was stackable and you could run around as Evelynn with your 50 second stealth and kill them without noticing you.

HateDaddySep 17, 20151 votes

This game is significantly better now than it's ever been tbh

Season2 is just nostalgia is all, it's when this game really took off and became something else.

TwoDSep 17, 20151 votes

Lmao season 3 was the best season of all seasons and always will be, I hope we can just stay and pause at season 3 I hate how this game is now. I fucjing hate it FUCKING HATE IT RIOT SHITFUCK

Silents429Sep 17, 20151 votes

Er wait, a players history doesn't go as far back as Season 3 anyway.

It was all in the post they made when they first added it.

MalzaharAnyLaneSep 17, 20151 votes

I remember League of Cleavers and item stacking, this is much worse by far.

At least in that meta mages still hard countered League of Cleavers because League of Cleavers didn't involve free MR because MR itemization is intentionally trash.

The game was actually healthier when Force of Nature existed because if you built that you gave up a massive armor item.