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May need to put a cap on crit.

For Carthage··4 votes·667 views

With the rise of double IE as a viable build path on ADC champs and... well, Gangplank, you may need to consider putting a cap on crit.

Honestly, the fact that there isn't is dumbfounding. Logically, 100% crit shouldn't be allowed since having that is the equivalent of doubling your AD permanently (or in the case of Yasuo, 1.8x your AD). While being way more cost effective than just buying all the highest AD items in the game, this particular build also is basically the only viable way to get that kind of consistent damage output.

Even ignoring the balance issues, let's just look at it from a crit perspective - if every hit is a critical hit, then what one actually is? None of them are more powerful than another hit, so by all logic none of them are really critical hits - they're just normal hits next to one another.

I know you're reworking the AD items come preseason, but if you decide to keep crit as a stat in the game, please - at the very least, max it out at 80% or so. That way it's actually a critical hit and not just another hit (while also being very cost-effective free AD).

14 Comments

lol I died again4 votes

There is a cap. It's 100%.

For Carthage2 votes

A cap less than that then. Whatever. I'm tired and I just got out of a game blowing people up with GP. So sue me.

Sona Ping1 votes

Double IE is massively expensive; why wouldn't it do a lot?

[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6Y5AFOFP,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-10-26T05:39:06.755+0000)

just got out of a game blowing people up with GP [with his crit stacking]

But how is that materially any different from any other time where a champion got really fed?

For Carthage1 votes

Because the game went 45 minutes and I wasn't actually really fed? I was actually pretty behind in lane. Once I got both IE's I started decimating people. All I needed was farm for that, too.

Sona Ping1 votes

Please note: I only looked things up for context, to try to understand your perspective on this.

You got farmed instead of fed, but it's the same-difference. I am not a fan of crit's implementation in this game but I don't see how it is responsible here.

You are referring to your last ranked victory, right? You got a second Infinity Edge at 30 minutes. You got over 8k worth of stats from those two items; that much stats going to do a lot no matter what it is (not even counting the Trinity Force you had on top of that). Further, at that time, you had 13,715 Gold on you, more gold than anyone else in the game, _thousands _ more than the strongest enemy team member with only 9.9k Gold. And before the end of the game you even doubled your personal gold advantage on your enemies. A big shift in the game occurred at 24 minutes. You got a big upswing in your gold advantage when you got a double kill and an enemy tower, before your Double IE, and you were already ahead of all your enemies at that point.

I can't see where Crit specifically had anything to do with this; a champion with that much advantage, with an entire completed item over anyone on the enemy team is going to do a lot of damage, regardless of what stat the item uses. You got ahead of the enemy and pressed your advantage. Crit didn't wreck the enemy that game, you did. So... good job.

For Carthage1 votes

As flattering to myself as that might be to believe...

Even farmed, GP's barrels had a major gate on them before: even if you nailed them, if you didn't crit on a barrel, even with the passive armor ignoring the damage would hardly scratch that of a Jinx crit - and Jinx can pump out a lot more AoE rounds than GP can. It was basically a lot of setup for an average payout compared to other champs - with 100% crit, however, I didn't have to be lucky. I just had to nail the barrel and guaranteed I'd be hitting over 1.4k on any squishy target in the game - and I could hit for that amount on a multitude of people at once. It's the consistency of that kind of damage that makes it an unbalanced thing. The only AP champ that could match that on an ability is Veigar, and getting him to nail an entire team with his W isn't exactly something that's about to happen - he usually just gets one.

This kind of thing means that, come late-game, an AD champ can just all-around outdo an AP champ in damage no matter what. It's an optimal build with the best results, the only downside being you're squishy - but with team-play, if your team is peeling correctly, that's hardly even a reasonable weakness.

ModWulf Helhammer2 votes

Double IE? In what world is that a good idea? You are buying the most expensive item in the game for just 20% crit chance (as the same AD can be purchased for a lower price)

For Carthage1 votes

You're not buying it for the crit alone, though. It's coupled with your other crit items, and crit becomes more gold-efficient as you get more crit. The build's actually a legitimate endgame build because, so long as you have a frontline (or you're Gangplank) all you need to worry about at that point is pumping out as much damage as possible, and this would mean you're striking for 250% of your AD more often than normal (on top of having way more damage to back it up). It's not a midgame build, it's a lategame build. But it's a damn fucking scary lategame build.

To give you an idea: as GP, my barrel will ignore 40% of your armor. With 400+ AD (which I achieve with this build) and Trin Force, my Q shot will first go up to 200% AD scaling with Trin-Force - so 800+ damage. Now multiply that by 2.5 - 2000+ damage. This doesn't factor in the Q base damage.

Given the armor scaling on squishy champs, we'll give the person around 100 armor and my barrel will do around 1300-1500 damage. Please note that the vast majority of this damage has been, up until this point, gated by random chance that it just would not deal that large amount of damage.

Now remove that gate.

I now hit you each and every time for more than 1300 damage and an 80% slow. I now run up and cut you and crit again. Always. Are you seeing the issue yet?

I will reiterate this a third time so you remember it: I am not saying this is a midgame build. This is for all intents and purposes a lategame-endgame build. It is what you go if you trust your team to peel for you. And it is what you go if you want the maximum amount of damage possible with an atrocious amount of reliability on an ADC. Or if you're just Gangplank.

TerminatusOmega1 votes

its pretty ridiculous when you look at what it can do, crit + bork + LW= are a reason why tanks are buffed to the point they are now.

so ya i think riot made a mess with all these very strong items.. remember league of warmogs and brutilizers? because of those 2 items, a lot of champs got nerfed

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Ya know this is a really good idea that I'm surprised has never been brought up. Cdr's capped, why not crit?

Squarefighter1 votes

It's capped at 100%

Sightless661 votes

Crit is capped at 100%.

CDR is capped at a lower value because each point enhances the value of all previous points of CDR. Getting 10% CDR gets you a 11.1% increase in spell DPS while getting 40% CDR gets you a 66% increase in spell DPS. The value of CDR gets higher the more you have, so it has to be stacked.

Crit doesn't have this stacking because it doesn't have exponential scaling. It's just multiplicative. Each point of crit gets you a 1% increase to autoattack DPS, increased by your crit damage multipler. That's it. It doesn't matter how many points of crit you have, that's exactly what you're getting. No need to cap it if you can't get exponential scaling off of it.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

So lower the cap. You shouldn't be able to crit all of the time or even most of the time.

Sightless661 votes

Then you'd need to update the damage ratio for criticalsome to not cut the dps of classes that rely on it.

Crit is not valuable because it has rng attached. That isn't even an interesting trait. It is a result steroid, through and through. It is very important in that role, and nerfing it there to try and make it less reliable is just silly. I don'the care if critical is reliable. I would rather it be perfectly reliable. Remove the rng and make it a %damage increase to autoattacks. Exactly through same average dps, no randomness. Easy.

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