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The Assassin Rework - My Opinion

Mr Noggenfogger··6 votes·499 views

I strongly feel like the assassin rework was a huge failure. It seemed like Riot thought that assassins were innately bad for the game, and wanted to put more focus on mechanical outplays rather than positional ones. This is shown in how they changed a lot of the assassins to have a large delay on their abilities, straying away from what an assassin does: quickly kill an isolated target. Examples include Katarina, Leblanc, Rengar, and Talon.

For example, Katarina got a 2.5 second delay on both her q and her w, as well as a 0.075 second cast time on her e(doesn't sound like a lot, but is definitely noticeable). In doing so, they bumped up her damage after the delay, as well as increasing her benefits from not killing her target compared to old Katarina, since she can easily shunpo away even if she doesn't kill her target. This turned her more into a skirmisher who likes multiple 3-4 second fights, completely straying away from the assassin type.

2 examples of smaller reworks that I think riot did well were Ekko and Kha'Zix. What happened to Ekko was they took away his passive slow, nerfing him, however they also added in the ability to r into his w to trigger it instantly. This lets him set up some flashier plays, and gives him an additional tool, however it requires setup to actually pull off. Instead of forcing players to do this always, they just rewarded them for playing like this as opposed to just jumping in and escaping with the slow.
Kha'zix was changed to be even more of an assassin, with abilities that complimented the assassin playstyle more. His evolved q is now great for small skirmishes, increasing his damage; his w grants him some great 1v1 utility; his e lets him pick targets and escape during teamfights; and his r lets him safely roam.

(TLDR/Conclusion) Any champion rework on a champion with a good mix of theme and gameplay should have their gameplay augmented, not changed completely. Please tell me whether you agree with what I have to say, or if you disagree, and why. [slayer-pantheon-thumbs] Edit: Please don't mindlessly downvote. If you're going to downvote (or upvote for that matter) please comment on why you feel that way. This promotes discussion, and should be the standard for gameplay imo.

23 Comments

Incognonymous3 votes

It was no better or worse than any of Riot's failed design paradigms, but that's how they operate, isn't it?

  1. State there's a problem
  2. Do nothing about the problem for years
  3. Set nebulous goals for a class rework
  4. Rework
  5. ????
  6. Hand wave any negative attributes or failures of the rework

Tanks, ADCs, assassins, hell even individual champs.

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

To a point, I agree. I feel like the Darius rework, for example, was done well, but the rest of the Juggernauts weren't. The ADC rework was just a nightmare for a lot of champions. For example Quinn, who was stripped of her assassin parts. You know my stance on the assassin rework, and I just didn't like what they did with Galio or Ryze, and to me they felt like a waste of time and resources. I really feel like they should put stuff on the pbe earlier, and give more people access to it, so that people can put their input on champion reworks as they develop.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

ekko was overloaded and kha'zix is cancer purified. the assassin gameplay is not about "one shotting people" that's just being fed, assassins are all about weaving in and out of fights with whatever mobility their kits provide and kat and leb were great examples now akali? not so much, that I'll agree was awful.

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

Not what an assassin is, you say? http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/dev-blog-classes-subclasses I recommend that you look through this. Edit: I read through the link as well, again, and realise that they arent quite skirmishers either. I'd actually argue that they're closer to divers in that they "excel at singling out high-priority targets to blitz toward, immediately forcing those targets (and their teammates) to deal with the diver’s presence. Divers are not as durable as the tanks or juggernauts of the world". However have the ability to escape, like a skirmisher, at the cost of actual defensive abilities

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

one mention of quick dispatch, no mention of the fabled 100-0 and many counts of using the defensive measures in their kits to ensure they can go in and out of fights and again I state assassins are meant to be weaving in and out of fights hitting high priority targets with large amounts of damage and getting out. maybe to finish them off later. I despise the one shot mentality, as it's incredibly linear, lacking in counterplay or outplay, and utterly boring. a zed ulting and vomiting damage all over an enemy is not exciting to watch nor to play. a zed correctly utilising all his shadows to toss shurikens out from every conceivable direction whilst rapidly chipping at one or more opponent while dodging in and out with his teleports is a thing of beauty to behold.

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

"Assassins specialize in infiltrating enemy lines with their unrivaled mobility to quickly dispatch high-priority targets." It's literally stating that their job is to 100-0 as quick as possible. 100-0ing someone actually does have a bunch of counterplay, just not much mechanically. An assassins job is to punish anybody who misspositions, however multiple assassins, such as Zed. can also assassinate the enemy, however his q, w, and e are all skillshots, so you can outplay them mechanically instead. Also, Zed goes in, does his full combo, and hits his shurikens to assassinate a target. No zed player's most effective strategy is to pretend that hes a mage and just poke with his q, w, and e. All poke mages can do it a lot better than Zed, and there would be no reason to pick him.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

it's f i g u r a t i v e l y stating that. assassins should not be rewarded for barreling straight at their target at high speeds and squashing them to death. why even bother giving them mobility tools if you just want them to jump in, shit on one person, and jump out and be useless the rest of the fight? 100-0 burst combos are innately unfair, I'm all for them being able to take out a mispositioned champion but the only reason they don't totally outclass standard mages is their lack of aoe. only reason, most definitely 100%

and I'm not talking about poke spamming all in one direction, I'm talking about zed tricks that throw out shadows in different directions and dodge around hitting the shurikens in fights. zed is a very fair assassin for those that know how to play against him but given too much in buffs or being fed he can become a vomit monster like I mentioned earlier, and it's not fun for those who have to deal with him.

and you can look this up yourself if you don't bother to cherry pick, riot calls it in and out combat, not in-100-0-out combat. ekko being more balanced now can not 100-0 someone without staying in longer than his 3 hit q e combo unless he's fed. when he was strong he could do that easy and riot nerfed that, what does that say to you if not "we don't want assassins to just sneeze in the general direction of a fight for a double" work for that one shot if you really do want it.

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

Riot didn't figuratively state how champions in that class perform. Riot straight up said that's their job. And I know what you mean with zed, and the need to do all that in turn grants him safety that a lot of assassins pre rework didn't have access to

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

SO RIDDLE ME why riot would change assassins to have delays on skills, and zed already have a delay on his ult before this if all they wanted was for you to be able to jump on someone and delete them, if riot really wanted that and stated that directly?

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

The thing is, riot didn't put delays on all assassins, just the ones i mentioned. They would do something about the other assassins if they didn't want it. Remember that the only difference between an assassin and burst mage is range and mobility. Burst mages have range, whereas assassins have mobility. For example, if lux lands a q on you, you are expected to die. Same if you get within annie's range. or syndra, lissandra, anivia, taliyah, etc. All of these champions have just as much burst as the assassins mentioned, however they (mostly) need to land skill shots, however they're rewarded with safety, in the form of cc, to use while bursting someone. If you think 100-0ing someone is toxic, then you really need to look at most mages, assassins, a bunch of divers, and some adcs. Just because the damage isn't a dot, doesn't mean that it's toxic, and is a major part of a lot of champions's kits

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

that's my position. burst really needs to be lowered at all classes and stages of the game. no matter what champion they should need to do more than land 2-3 skills to get a kill.

then we can lower adc's ridiculous damage a bit so tanks can play a bit better lategame against the 6 item adc without needing stupid base damages of their own to push them off.

Evil Yasuo1 votes

Actually he's right. Assassins in league are the same essentially as assassins in real life. They prioritize a specific, important target, take it out with as much speed as possible. An assassin will kill the adc or burst mage in the backline, if he's lucky, to make it a 4v5 for the teamfight. They should be all about bursting speed.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

real life is not about sportsmanship. real life purposes do not translate smoothly into supposed fair gameplay, and that is one of them. giving a target practically no time to react and requiring they have someone set on them just waiting in case their charge is jumped on and baby sit them does not make them feel like they are in control. no wonder adc complain so much you assassin players kept whining until you could murder a squishy with your gaze alone and now it's not that way so you don't like you can only maybe 60-0 someone.

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

The entire role of an assassin is to counter adcs, if you didn't realize. Assassins can easily be countered by staying with your team and smart positioning, minus a few.

AmetDeCrypt1 votes

so teams counter assassins

as they should that doesn't change adc should still have a bit of a chance to survive if the assassin misplays in solo. if the zed is shit and can't aim he shouldn't get the execute simple as that.

Evil Yasuo1 votes

Upvoted because I made a similar thread lol. Check it out if you wanna see my idea for a Talon rework. Talon's only damage now comes form his cheese passive and i'm not a fan of that. Failing to proc your passive after you ult is so frustrating and seems more like a mechanical failure than a lack of skill. In my rework, his killing tools are focused around his blades he throws and less about roaming/passive cheese. I can tell Talon isn't fun to lane against due to his current passive so that's why I changed it to what I did.

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/tqLo1E9Q-assassin-re-rework-the-fix

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

In your rework I'm not too big a fan of his passive, and he needs a little more outplay potential. I personally don't like his passive, as well, so I think it would be cool if you came up with some other ideas for a different talon, who is still similar to old talon. Remember that with his e, he cant one shot from stealth, since it would be incredibly difficult to play against in either macro or micro.

Evil Yasuo1 votes

tbh i'm having trouble thinking of anything other than a different version of his old passive. I only put it so it'd compliment his bleeding damage to get the snowball rolling. I had another idea but it'd be TOO similar to his old kit but essentially you can mix his new E with his old E. You can parkour over shit but also activate it on enemies to blink to them. Once you used it on an enemy though, it goes on cooldown for however many seconds and you have to wait for it to be back up to jump over walls/blink again. Just didn't use it because I feel people are wanting to get rid of the parkour ability and it would mean his Q would lose the leap part and be an aa reset like before. (which I actually liked due to turrets)

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

TBH I really like the E ability idea. Lets him keep his burst, but makes it so that if he engages with his e on enemies, he cant escape without his ult(and in that case you had to ult). Would give the Talon player a lot more choice in how he engages and disengages. Edit: A word

Mizaya1 votes

They really took away all the fun with the Kha'Zix rework. Don't really understand the point of making burst dependent on an item now.

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

I can see that to an extent, with his evolved q changes. However, they wanted to give players more choices in their evolutions, and if his q was like before, it would 90% of the time be taken first no matter what. Now you have a wider variety of uses for each of his adaptions.

Executioner

I cant tell you how many times I've been bursted by a Katrina. You are saying the burst is delayed? Late game sure, however early to mid game she feels like a ticking time bomb waiting to go off.

However my games never reach late game anymore. My teams are always stomp enemy team, or get stomped. I get maybe 1 game out of 10 that reachs maybe the 40 minutes marker. 50 minute marker? I haven't had that happen to me in months.

I honestly think assassins at the moment are fine.

Mr Noggenfogger1 votes

Your analogy to a ticking time bomb is correct. She uses her abilities, her daggers showing where they are going to be, and in 2.5 seconds she trades with you, if you cant move out of the daggers' range in the 2.5 seconds you probably lose the trade. It's just that her abilities don't reward trying to burst the target as fast as possible, other than her passive. I'm not going to talk about the quick games topic, as to not stray from the topic of the post.

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