While we're on the topic of identity, let's talk about Sona.

Atuko·Oct 17, 2015·40 votes·3,379 views

Sona no long embodies that "aura" champion that she's supposed to be, the champion that she was before she was reworked. I mean I'm not saying the aura identity isn't there at ALL, but it surely was a downgrade. You literally just touch your ally once now, that's it. You don't even get rewarded for keeping them in the aura or anything.

Her kit now relies HEAVILY on her building AP instead of building aura items that actually support your team. A FULL support Sona feels so underwhelming it's not even funny, because of how much she relies on AP now. I want to build items to help my team. ( is pretty good tho, it should be core) She's received quite a number of nerfs after her rework as well.

A FULL support Sona is only useful for her ult because a FULL support Sona has little AP (for which her current kit demands so much of) and even if you do build AP, her ratios are pretty low as well. (mostly W and E, Q and R have pretty alright ratios.) I don't mind building an ALRIGHT amount of AP on Sona, but when she's completely reliant on AP to be relevant then it's a problem.

Can we please look at her?

I miss the aura stances. This was a thing that made Sona feel so much like the "aura" champ of league that she was supposed to be and it pushed the fantasy much more than her current kit does. If I remember correctly, Sona was able to mix her aura's for a bit as well?

Can't we revisit this and modernize it? There could be a rhythm mechanic that has been proposed quite a lot.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/mp6Eje7u-rework-how-to-make-sona-the-aura-champ

This is one thread for example.

I just want my favorite champion to feel how she was supposed to feel, an AOE buff support, and the aura champion of League.

46 Comments

ModAttysu The PoroOct 17, 201519 votes

As a fond Sona player who rocks out to DJ Sona whenever I play her, and loves to do goofy things with my ult...

Can we please fix this?

I miss Aura Sona, it was so much fun. Now she's this AP hungry bard like chick person, not even Riot knows what to do with her anymore.

PS: "Only you can hear me, summoner" my ass, I don't exist remember? >_>

MimyOct 17, 20153 votes

Nidalee first timed her today.. she also mentioned summoners..

Aeolian MelodiesOct 17, 20154 votes

{quoted}

first timed her today.. she also mentioned summoners..

Katarina also mentions her summoner.

Janna never says "summoner" but speaks to you quite often ("The tempest is at your command" "As you wish" "By your command").

ModAttysu The PoroOct 17, 20155 votes

Yeeeah a lot of champs need that fixed. Especially a special dude...

Jax

Without the League, wtf IS HE?!

Kitten of EvilOct 17, 20151 votes

You can't contain me, summoner! Nocturne Do I scare you, summoner? Leblanc Patience, summoner.

chipndip1Oct 17, 20158 votes

Idk if I can even keep trucking on playing Sona anymore at this point. She's a pube stomper at lower elos, but I'm starting to stagnate. Nami's starting to look better and better as I continue mastering landing her bubble on people...

I love playing Sona, but her design is simply STUPID. Straight STUPID. No other words explain it properly. She has squishy back-liner defenses, but at the same time she has to be up in everyone's faces to work properly. If her passive didn't force her to auto people, maybe she'd make more sense. The problem is that she has to be so damn close for so little pay-off, especially on W and even more so on E. Can we please have some buffs on W and E?

Can W's shield last longer than 1.5 seconds?

Can E's powerchord slow be stronger than a freaking Rylai's that any mage can build and thus do her job better?

Can E give more than 1% per level?

Can E last as long on allies as it does on Sona?

Can E give as strong a boost on allies as it does on Sona?

Can Sona's move speed not be the lowest tier in the game when most supports get more range and can move faster?

Can any of these things be looked into?

Pika310Oct 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Still exploring ways to improve satisfaction with W and E especially. I have heard this feedback and want to find ways to improve these situations, but improving these are going to add some power. Figuring out where we can remove power in ways that don't hurt more than the improvements is going to take time.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/JEfmrO1L-so-is-no-rioter-going-to-come-forward-about-the-decrease-in-sonas-q-range-to-650-from-700?comment=00050001

Sadly, it's been getting "looked into" for well over a year already. If Rito planned on actually doing anything, they would've already.

Rito's 15+ months without making a single positive step, combined with Jag's recent lies and propaganda( http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/data-and-champion-balance-part-2 ) are both pretty strong evidence that Rito just blatantly doesn't want her to ever be playable ever again. She's never received a real buff in the entirety of League's history for a reason and they certainly don't plan on changing that now.

1000angrybeesOct 17, 20152 votes

The only actual buff I can think of is making Crescendo 100 mana at all ranks, and even then, it was just to put her ult in line with all the other average ult costs.

Pika310Oct 17, 20151 votes

My thoughts exactly. A global generic buff to an entire group of champions does not count as a buff to any individual champion amongst that list. It does not matter that it happened to Sona 1 year, 4 months and 2 weeks later than everyone else, it's still a part of that group buff.

1000angrybeesOct 17, 20152 votes

I don't know why her w shield isn't at least 2 seconds. it makes literally zero sense.

E has been suggested to be a root at rank 4 or 5 for months now... aside from that, it's just a mess. Range, ranks, ally effects, necessary AP.....

why the hell is she 325? She's already ridiculously susceptible to ganks, i don't know who the hell thought that was a good idea to make it so punishable to be halfway into lane and get killed because you're too slow to even get NEAR the turret (even with a shitty speed boost)

She's been promised help like 4 patches ago and nothing came of it. They see all these sona threads but never respond in the slightest. It's simply ridiculous.

Pika310Oct 17, 20151 votes

She's been promised help like 4 patches ago and nothing came of it. They see all these sona threads but never respond in the slightest. It's simply ridiculous.

Actually, the first promise that Rito would help Sona was all the way back in around 4.16/17, more than a year ago... and then they nerfed her in 4.20 and 5.1. Don't trust Rito, all they do is blatantly lie to our faces with empty promises and misleading or false propaganda.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/2n8M8JVj-riot-fearless-what-was-sona-made-for?comment=0003000300000002

UirayaOct 17, 20155 votes

Just had a Sona lane with me and it was a 2v1 the whole time.

She built support items and the only cool thing she did was ult out of a bush bait.

I love Sona but she's unplayably bad right now. Removing her invisible power and replacing it with NOTHING is not balance, it's dumpstering.

Pika310Oct 17, 20152 votes

{quoted} I miss the aura stances. This was a thing that made Sona feel so much like the "aura" champ of league that she was supposed to be and it pushed the fantasy much more than her current kit does. If I remember correctly, Sona was able to mix her aura's for a bit as well?

Not just for a bit, but up until her auras were removed, they could ALWAYS overlap. Mind you not the 3 full seconds that was on her release, or even the 2 seconds after its first nerf. When it was reduced to a 1-second linger after swapping auras, she kept this part of her passive until patch 4.13 when they removed all of the auras from her kit and replaced them with pathetic actives.

redniwediSOct 17, 20152 votes

I currently build Sona in one of two ways. I either play her full mage mid lane, or tanky move speed support. The first is self explanatory, however the latter only ever works as a "win more" champion. She actually feels fun as a support that way, but she doesn't assist the team in winning. She only helps widen the gap between the teams, and yes that means if you're losing she's complete dead weight.

There's more conservative builds that are more helpful to a team in all cases, however those just don't feel fun anymore.

EDIT: My preferred build, for reference. item 3069 item 3222 item 3800 item 2045 item 3504 item 3117

Aeolian MelodiesOct 17, 20154 votes

{quoted}

I currently build Sona in one of two ways. I either play her full mage mid lane, or tanky move speed support. The first is self explanatory, however the latter only ever works as a "win more" champion. She actually feels fun as a support that way, but she doesn't assist the team in winning. She only helps widen the gap between the teams, and yes that means if you're losing she's complete dead weight.

There's more conservative builds that are more helpful to a team in all cases, however those just don't feel fun anymore.

EDIT: My preferred build, for reference.

Yeah, Sona's probably the most useless support to play from behind and one of the most oppressive when ahead. Quite contradictory XD

Pika310Oct 17, 20155 votes

I'd say all of these supports are exponentially more oppressive while ahead then she ever could be:

Thresh Annie Bard Blitzcrank Karma Thresh Leona Lulu Morgana Nami Nunu Soraka Thresh Zyra

Aeolian MelodiesOct 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I'd say all of these supports are exponentially more oppressive while ahead then she ever could be:

Half of your list isn't support champions but tanks or mages being played as supports.

LankPantsOct 17, 20152 votes

Yeah, Sona's probably the most useless support to play from behind and one of the most oppressive when ahead. Quite contradictory XD

I don't think she's that oppressive when ahead.

She's strong when ahead, that is true but she's strong in a selfish way.

The thing about being ahead as a support is that there's always at least one other person that's ahead as well. Since you're never going to be as strong as them it's generally still better to have someone who can protect them.

If our bot lane's ahead and I'm an ADC I'd prefer someone like Janna or Thresh even if they're technically weaker on an individual level just because they can peel for me considerably better.

That's also one of the reasons why Sona has historically been popular with Ezreal. He's an ADC who doesn't need peel.

BoiBoiOct 18, 20152 votes

Yeah because I really want to sit in lane with one of my auras on and call it "Supporting"

If I wanted to play a mmorpg with passive buffs I would play a different game.

AtukoOct 18, 20151 votes

This is why I suggested modernizing the concept to fit today's standards.

PDE5 InhibitorsOct 17, 20151 votes

Sona is QR bot. Not even a reason to have her other spells.

ModAttysu The PoroOct 17, 201517 votes

Which is what we wanna remedy.

fattyhotdogsOct 17, 20154 votes

Man, I've had heaps of success with a nicely timed slow, or a clutch heal. (Or did you guys all forget that sona has a slow?) If playing with a jungler that has bulk damage but lacks cc (see master yi, shyvana) I'll definitely save my power chord for the slow over the stupid Q

ModAttysu The PoroOct 17, 20153 votes

Not saying she's unplayable or unberably weak, we just miss how old Sona used to play. I love new Sona, but she feels different from her roots.

LankPantsOct 17, 201512 votes

Or did you guys all forget that sona has a slow?

The 200 mana 40% slow with a minimum 12 sec CD? It's pre good compared to most supports CCs.

LankPantsOct 17, 20151 votes

Her heal is definitely a spell. It's not that good but it's good enough that you should at least rank and use it.

Her E on the other hand...

Comrade GuylasOct 18, 20151 votes

What E? When I play Sona all I see are 3 abilities.

Aeolian MelodiesOct 20, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What E? When I play Sona all I see are 3 abilities.

The selfish part of her E is actually quite good.

The aura is definitely a better one-point-wonder than pre-rework Song of Celerity ever was.

The main issue is the complete SHITTY scaling per level.

One.

Percent.

Per.

Level.

item 3070 Sona

Aeolian MelodiesOct 17, 20151 votes

Her identity as a poke-sustain support who focuses on buffing allies is still there. Her impact is more visible (didn't say stronger/better, I said more visible).

Stacking auras isn't even possible anymore because Riot is methodically removing aura items - I honestly am surprised that item 3105 and its upgrades still exist.

AP being better than full support active whore is imo what should be the goal of non-tank supports.

NOW DROP THE TOMATOES AND LISTEN TO ME.

Every other class gets to build item that makes their kit stronger at doing what it already does (tanking, bursting, etc). Supports have kits made to, well, support - why can't Sona and Janna build items that make THEIR support - Sona's buffs, Janna's shield, Nami's heal, etc - stronger, instead of always buying item 3069 item 3190 item 3222 no matter who you are?

Sona is the only support whose utility ratios don't entirely suck and who was actually balanced around having them. I say all the other non-tank supports should also have incentive to build AP, and make THEIR kind of supporting stronger instead of just being the pack mule for all the actives that make your own kit irrelevant because half of the reason we want you nearby is because you're packing item 3050 + item 3222 and I want my pewpew and my QSS that heals without taking an item slot in my inventory.

Think about it: there's nothing unique about buying item 3069 item 3190 item 3222 item 2049 item 3117 item 3050 item 3364 on virtually every support champion. That'd probably draw a clearer line between ACTUAL supports and MAGES, where ACTUAL supports would be the ones with the shields, heals, buffs, instead of being able to pack the same items on Annie and do that with good raw damage on squishies for good measure.

67chromeOct 17, 20155 votes

Sona is the only support whose utility ratios don't entirely suck and who was actually balanced around having them. I say all the other non-tank supports should also have incentive to build AP, and make THEIR kind of supporting stronger instead of just being the pack mule for all the actives that make your own kit irrelevant because half of the reason we want you nearby is because you're packing + and I want my pewpew and my QSS that heals without taking an item slot in my inventory.

There's a lot major issues with this though.

Most importantly - the support is going to flat out have the least income of any champion in the game, so forcing them onto a late-game scaling pattern over having solid utility and the capacity to pick up 1 or 2 more solid utilities that fit the situation heavily favors the champion that brings raw utility over damage.

As such - the support roll has pretty much always been about a "play smarter rather than harder" mindset. In seasons 1 and 2 it was largely about vision control with tons of CC (and the occasional shield/heal). With the ~ok gold income of supports now, it's also expanded to encompass some half-utility/solid bases magi.

Furthermore: the main strategy with a support pick (due to lowest income) is generally picking a champion with amazing bases/presence early-game to offset the weak early of a marksman (often to the point a marksman's early feels really strong ATM), and then transition into a relatively useful champion late-game through a lot of solid utility mechanics that aren't tied to itemization to be useful (primarily CC - though displacement effects, vision control, ally-saving capacities, and so on also work).

And mages already get decent CC/utilities and scale really well with building full AP, being more damage-heavy than supports. If you want an AP champion with decent AP scalings and some OK supportive capabilities, why even bother picking a support like Sona when you can just run a Lux/Anivia/Lissandra/Annie mid-lane where they can actually get the farm they need for said ratios?

The entire reason Sona is shit right now is specifically because of her reliance on AP and ratios to do much of anything. It really hamstrings her from being a strong support early, picking up smarter rather than harder items as the game progresses, being a reliable asset late-game, and having any meaningful difference from champions that clearly do her job better.

LankPantsOct 17, 20151 votes

Most importantly - the support is going to flat out have the least income of any champion in the game, so forcing them onto a late-game scaling pattern over having solid utility and the capacity to pick up 1 or 2 more solid utilities that fit the situation heavily favors the champion that brings raw utility over damage.

Just spitballing ideas here, but if Riot wants to force Sona into a late game role from the support position wouldn't the way to do it be a gold generation mechanic somewhere on her kit?

You could essentially make her the Tristana of supports, where you lose out a lot mid game (which is traditionally a strong point for most supports) and you become a tertiary or quaternary carry into the late game.

If you have some gold generation (most likely similar to Frostfang to promote more risky play) you can afford to go Sightstone>AP. You'd be able to afford items like Lichbane and Morello's, maybe even Deathcap if your lane got ahead.

It would also create some unique lane situations. You could put her with someone like Kog and force jungle pressure, since your lane's going to outscale everything in the game or you could put her with Graves and have a non-traditional curve where the support scales as well as or better than the ADC.

I'm not saying this is a great solution, but it's interesting to think about at least.

67chromeOct 18, 20151 votes

Just spitballing ideas here, but if Riot wants to force Sona into a late game role from the support position wouldn't the way to do it be a gold generation mechanic somewhere on her kit?

Free gold doesn't encourage lanning as a support any more than other lanning positions.

And gold is useful on every champion no matter what.

It's actually most useful on marksman and assassins and the least useful on supports, as there's a pretty big difference between hitting someone for peanuts or OHKOing them due to damage itemization.

And no difference between a Thresh lantern (or most CC/utility effects) with 0 or 1,000,000 golds worth of itemization backing it up. CDR is the only stat that effects most utilities at all, and you can't pump it above 40%.

You could essentially make her the Tristana of supports, where you lose out a lot mid game (which is traditionally a strong point for most supports) and you become a tertiary or quaternary carry into the late game.

This has 1 collosal problem:

Anivia Lux Lissandra Orianna Morgana Zyra Azir Kennen Fiddlesticks Mages exist.

There is already a fairly robust selection of champions with strong damage scaling/carry potential and respectable utility.

And Riot forcing Sona's itemization into a place where she has to compete with all of them is what landed her in the spot she's currently in.

Making her have late-game item reliance isn't placing her in a new niche, it's not exploring new territory: it's stripping away the most important and fundamental qualities of a support and throwing her in the bottom of one of the largest champion archetypes. Also why she's in the state she's in - her rework pushed her into being a lackluster mage rather than a solid support.

LankPantsOct 18, 20151 votes

Free gold doesn't encourage lanning as a support any more than other lanning positions.

That depends how the free gold is given. If you make it harder to obtain while CSing it will incentivize support play. if you make it Like TFs or GPs it will 100% not.

The way I'd set it up is "damaging a champ gives stacks of a passive resource, whenever a nearby creep that you did not kill dies you consume stacks up to a % of its value and gain an equal amount of gold". That's how you can create a source of gold generation that will be significantly better for a support than for a mid laner.

And no difference between a Thresh lantern (or most CC/utility effects) with 0 or 1,000,000 golds worth of itemization backing it up.

It would be a shame if Sona had any of them, wouldn't it. As it stands the only spell that's relatively independent of Sona's AP is her ultimate and even that scales up in damage as you build AP. In her current state Sona thrives off of AP.

This has 1 collosal problem: Mages exist.

Sona already has a unique niche from all the mages you listed. She's the only one with an ally targeted heal. She's also got a better speed boost than any of the others. Her supportive utility traits help to differentiate her from the others who all rely on disruptive utility. (other than Ori and Morg who do have some supportive uttility although nowhere near as high as Sona's)

Arguably this is actually a more unique niche than if you made her a pure support. As a pure support Sona will always have to compete with Nami. Even in her pre rework state she'd be out-competed by Nami since her auras would never be worth sacrificing the on demand CC that Nami can bring.

There is already a fairly robust selection of champions with strong damage scaling/carry potential and respectable utility.

How many mages can consistently become a major damage threat from the support role? None. They all require being fed in order to become a damage treat as a support. The closest thing to a scaling support right now is Bard, since his passive damage will scale up with charms.

Having a consistent gold income is almost always a necessity to becoming a damage threat within the game. At the moment no support can ever fill this niche.

it's stripping away the most important and fundamental qualities of a support and throwing her in the bottom of one of the largest champion archetypes.

Sona already doesn't have those traits and is at the bottom of both the mage and support archetypes, which are far less sepperated archetypes than people think.

Making her have late-game item reliance isn't placing her in a new niche, it's not exploring new territory

It is, no support has ever been item reliant before and able to get said items consistently. As it stands now Sona is item reliant, that's a fact. If she can't build something like Grail+Lichbane she's worthless. Nothing about what I suggested created this, Riot created this a year and a half ago. I'm just suggesting a way to get some consistency into Sonas scaling.

Aeolian MelodiesOct 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There's a lot major issues with this though.

Most importantly - the support is going to flat out have the least income of any champion in the game, so forcing them onto a late-game scaling pattern over having solid utility and the capacity to pick up 1 or 2 more solid utilities that fit the situation heavily favors the champion that brings raw utility over damage.

As such - the support roll has pretty much always been about a "play smarter rather than harder" mindset. In seasons 1 and 2 it was largely about vision control with tons of CC (and the occasional shield/heal). With the ~ok gold income of supports now, it's also expanded to encompass some half-utility/solid bases magi.

Furthermore: the main strategy with a support pick (due to lowest income) is generally picking a champion with amazing bases/presence early-game to offset the weak early of a marksman (often to the point a marksman's early feels really strong ATM), and then transition into a relatively useful champion late-game through a lot of solid utility mechanics that aren't tied to itemization to be useful (primarily CC - though displacement effects, vision control, ally-saving capacities, and so on also work).

And mages already get decent CC/utilities and scale really well with building full AP, being more damage-heavy than supports. If you want an AP champion with decent AP scalings and some OK supportive capabilities, why even bother picking a support like Sona when you can just run a Lux/Anivia/Lissandra/Annie mid-lane where they can actually get the farm they need for said ratios?

The entire reason Sona is shit right now is specifically because of her reliance on AP and ratios to do much of anything. It really hamstrings her from being a strong support early, picking up smarter rather than harder items as the game progresses, being a reliable asset late-game, and having any meaningful difference from champions that clearly do her job better.

Sona IS strong early game, her current issue lies in the current tank support metas because no poke support can bully a tank support with relic shield out of lane and Sona simply is no exception. Matched against another utility support, Sona's poke is as strong as it ever was.

Statistically speaking her win rate drops as the game length increases - having to put points in E for ONE FUCKING PERCENT POINT PER RANK is imo a big factor.

As for gold: you're not that poor anymore. An AP-oriented support build isn't THAT much more expensive than the tank support one.

item 3165 + item 3023 + item 3116 = 7700g item 3190 item 3222 + item 3050 7450g

250g difference. That's like 2 assists worth of gold. Or a Baron. Or participating in a tower kill.

The reason why non-tank supports don't build AP isn't the cost, it's the fact that most of them have shit scaling on their damage, heals, and utility alike, so you're better off relying on your base values and being the team's pack mule. Riot, if you're going to make utility ratios, don't make them trivial, otherwise what's even the point?

IMO they half-assed it. They needed to create a new stat for utility (buffs, heals, shields) to scale from so they would not be afraid of supports going AP and getting both ridiculous utility AND decent dmg output, but clearly that was more work than they were willing to put in the support class.

But imagine this. Let's call the stat Support Power (SP) for the sake of discussion.

You have Sona. You can either build AP and get damage for your Q, passive and ult, but your heal and buffs are shit. Or you can build SP and your damage falls off, but your Q buff, W heal and shield, and E buffs really make a difference. Same with Nami, either you go AP and bubble, damage part of W, and ult actually do damage, OR you go SP and your heal, MS buff, and E (slow and dmg) receive a nice increase. Etc.

67chromeOct 18, 20151 votes

As for gold: you're not that poor anymore. An AP-oriented support build isn't THAT much more expensive than the tank support one.

The issue with Sona's build isn't the build's cost itself. It's that Sona needs that build to do much of anything.

Most supports simply don't need any items at all to function, which leaves Sona in a really vulnerable spot for a big part of the game.

The reason why non-tank supports don't build AP isn't the cost, it's the fact that most of them have shit scaling on their damage, heals, and utility alike, so you're better off relying on your base values and being the team's pack mule.

That's not the reason at all.

Most tank supports have solid AP ratios. Where a typical mage does ~1,000+220% AP damage with their QWER: a typical tank also tends to do ~1,000+220% AP damage with their QWER.

The reason tanks don't build full AP is because they're melee range and would cease being tanky if they didn't build tanky: causing you to play a tanky CC champion in a way that doesn't offer tanky or CDR boosted CC. That's entirely a question of having an alternate play-style and viable off-build over ratios.

IMO they half-assed it. They needed to create a new stat for utility (buffs, heals, shields) to scale from so they would not be afraid of supports going AP and getting both ridiculous utility AND decent dmg output, but clearly that was more work than they were willing to put in the support class.

Such a change would completely obliterate Sona (and most primary support champions) as a useful champion, because specifically only scaling utility is much worse than scaling damage and utility at the same time. Especially considering the ceilings that need to be in-place with a lot of utility effects, because allowing perma-silence/root/stun CC tains through utility+CDR maxing would be a pretty obvious thing to steer clear of.

But again - Sona's issue is reliance on items. Making her scale in any way with any stat is a reliance on items. Having no item scaling at all would help Sona, not the other way around. If she just operated DotA style and had 0 AP/AP/HP ratios at all with all her kit's power placed (and balanced) around her bases and bases alone, she'd be amazing. She's in the opposite boat right now though: about as much presence early-game as a Vayne/Jinx and about as item dependent, but much less presence once she actually gets items.

RozzetaOct 17, 20152 votes

Cool point, and I do agree there is an important lack of AP on support options, which is actually intended as Riot's philosophy goes against granting damage on Support items, and instead want to focus on those item's actives. Unfortunately, whenever Sona builds damage, Riot nerfes her Power Chord. As simple as that. Granting more AP options to Sona is equal to Balance team nerfing Staccato to only 10% bonus damage.

Aeolian MelodiesOct 17, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Cool point, and I do agree there is an important lack of AP on support options, which is actually intended as Riot's philosophy goes against granting damage on Support items, and instead want to focus on those item's actives. Unfortunately, whenever Sona builds damage, Riot nerfes her Power Chord. As simple as that. Granting more AP options to Sona is equal to Balance team nerfing Staccato to only 10% bonus damage.

item 3023 item 3060 item 3050 item 3092 item 3165 item 3001 item 3174 item 3116 all have some supportive value and are AP items. There's also the fact that they can go straight for bigger AP items.

Riot doesn't want to give supports good AP ratios because they don't want to make them oppressive with strong utility, shields/heals, AND dmg. The whole thing needs to be revamped imo. They need to create a new stat for supports.

FastAsHeckOct 17, 20151 votes

Auras were supposed to be her thing, but she is now too Q reliant in my opinion. I agree that its silly that auras are only useful the first time you touch someone. Also does anyone else feel that the ult is a bit underwhelming? Not only it is too thin to catch more than 2 people (unless they are stacking on top of each other), the stun has a very low duration as well. I think it should be wider and stun for longer, but slower projectile/cast time so there is counterplay.

Emmy Cha0sOct 17, 20153 votes

I agree that its silly that auras are only useful the first time you touch someone.

Not only does it feel silly, it contradicts the definition of an aura. Auras CANNOT be single-use effects, they're persistent abilities, always in effect while you're alive and have allies in range.

As for her ult, ya the nerfs to it hurt. Either way, it's very inferior to most other ults like Nami and Bard and worse yet has a longer cooldown. I'm not sure giving it more power at the cost of increasing the channel and slowing the projectile is a good idea. The channel is already long enough as is and the travel is quite slow for anyone not on west coast ping. It's easy to Flash out of the hitbox or even just walk out if your at the end.

FastAsHeckOct 19, 20151 votes

yeah thinking it again more channel/less speed was a little stupid

KuboxOct 17, 20154 votes

My problem with her ult is not it's size or duration (tho it's true it could be longer).

It's the cooldown. Ashe's ult is so much more powerful than Sona's while packing a 100s / 90s / 80s vs Sona's 140s / 120s / 100s. In fact a lot of supports have stronger/similar ults on lower CD than Sona. (Annie, Leona)

Aeolian MelodiesOct 17, 20153 votes

{quoted}

My problem with her ult is not it's size or duration (tho it's true it could be longer).

It's the cooldown. Ashe's ult is so much more powerful than Sona's while packing a 100s / 90s / 80s vs Sona's 140s / 120s / 100s. In fact a lot of supports have stronger/similar ults on lower CD than Sona. (Annie, Leona)

Yes, so much this. The CD needs to be on par with what her competition can do. I've read somewhere that Riot tuned her ult CD with the idea that Sona is going to cap CDR, well, as tank support and mage support, Leona and Annie can just as easily cap CDR, so if Sona is balanced around capped CDR, so should they, and if they aren't, there's no reason she should be.

Or if you want it to be such a long-ass CD give her the pre-rework hitbox, because despite the claim that only the visual was changed, I've been saying all along that it's bull, the actual AoE got shrinked.

AtukoOct 17, 20154 votes

Most mage supports have longer (or equal) CC than Sona does, on BASIC abilities. Morgana Lux Karma Nami Lulu

Aeolian MelodiesOct 18, 20151 votes

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Auras were supposed to be her thing, but she is now too Q reliant in my opinion. I agree that its silly that auras are only useful the first time you touch someone. Also does anyone else feel that the ult is a bit underwhelming? Not only it is too thin to catch more than 2 people (unless they are stacking on top of each other), the stun has a very low duration as well. I think it should be wider and stun for longer, but slower projectile/cast time so there is counterplay.

She was always Q-reliant to have lane presence. Auras had been nerfed to the point where QW sucked until maxed and E sucked the whole game (only the active was useful). Sona's own stats, especially her armor, were tuned with "max W aura is on" in mind which actually made her squishier than she currently is - I'm talking lose a 1v1 against a lane minion without runes/masteries/spell squishy. Riot never liked her ambient aura concept (makes you wonder why they made her to begin with), and would never have let her be a thing again with that design.

I do think you should be able to re-tag allies with the current "snuggle zone" auras, otherwise what's the point in getting extended aura duration for tagging allies? If I tag my whole team, I get the max duration on my current aura... which serves no purpose since they've already been tagged and can't be re-tagged. What kind of shitty concept rewards you with absolutely nothing if you do your thing perfectly? Can't we get stuff like W shield refreshing if you tag everyone so that I at least feel like there's a reason for me to play the tag game with my whole team? (besides pushing an objective with item 3504 ).

The stun needs to regain its pre-rework width. I think it's silly that they hate this ult so much because "AoE lock down on a support is a design mistake" and yet they proceeded to release Lulu Nami Thresh Leona Bard Braum , let Annie Zyra Nautilus Morgana become a thing as bot lane supports, and Blitzcrank Alistar already existed when that statement was made. It needs more power, for its CD and the power it's taxing from her QWE, it's simply not enough anymore. That is painfully clear. In terms of appreciation, I would love to see it become the big ass golden particle that takes over the whole fight again instead of this shitty on-the-ground effect which is why I almost never used Arcade Sona pre-rework, I felt like it was not visible enough.

lofi n chillhopOct 17, 20151 votes

yeah I could love a Sona rework. she was my first main and favorite champ, but they've gutted her at this point. she can still be played well, but since she isn't played often most ADC's don't know how to play to synergize with her.

Comrade GuylasOct 18, 20151 votes

I agree Sona just isn't the same, she isn't a great support. Her AP ratios aren't that great, but... tell that to full AP mid Sona, get lich bane = Build complete time to delete all squishies with one Q and a 3rd passive auto