Gentlemen, we must buff Warmogs

IonCannonKarthus··14 votes·2,625 views

We must increase its regen Pre-5K Health.

Current Warmogs: item 1011 + item 1028 + 2 item 1006 + 1070 Gold = 2830 Itemcost 1000 HP Unique Passive: You gain health regeneration equal to 1% of your maximum health.

Proposed Warmogs: item 1011 + item 1011 + 2 item 1006 + 540 Gold = 2900 Itemcost 1000HP 50HP/5

We are severely lacking in a health regen tank item, we are stuck with current Warmogs and unless your name is Volibear/Mundo and you can get away with stacking HP, then you know that the current state of health regen is abysmal.

The point of this change would be to allow people to reach the same amount of health regen that a 5k HP champion with Warmogs would achieve, by stacking defensive items instead of HP. Lets take an example of what it currently takes for a champion to achieve 50HP/5 flat from Warmogs (I'm not going to factor in Spirit Visage % increase because its the same for current mogs and proposed mogs). I'm going to use Volibear as the template for my example with a semi-realistic build.

In order to attain the 5000 HP to achieve the 50HP/5 Volibear would need the following setup: item 3083 item 3065 item 3102 item 3068 item 3143 9 points in defensive tree for Juggernaut Flat HP Seals.

This is what is REQUIRED for him to achieve these levels of regen with a decent build and proposed Warmogs: item 3083 item 3075 item 3075 item 3075 item 3075 30/0/0 Masteries Energy and Crit damage Runes

Now I realize Voli will want a ton of HP because of his bite, but what about tanks who will want regen but not boatloads of HP because %MaxHP damage is a thing in this game? They can't really itemize for it at all. AD Champions have lifesteal to fallback on if they get hurt, AP Champions are supposed to have damage stick to them(Vladimir excluded obviously), and most common supports have heals. What about the TANK champions? The REAL tanks, Nautilus, Amumu, Malphite, Rammus, Shen, hell even Singed! What do they have to rely on when they get hit? It sure isn't health regen at the moment!

What would a bruiser trade out for it? A damage item? A resistance item that they need? The difference between tanks and bruisers imo, is that tanks SHOULD be able to do their jobs without a damage item and bruisers should not. A tank will be able to take Warmogs in addition to 4 other resistance items and be a threat because of their CC. A Bruiser doesn't have the item slots available to achieve the same thing(Unless its Mundo, I hate Mundo) so unless that enemy Renekton has no plans to deal damage or be able to soak either AP or AD effectively, then there should be no fear of bruisers abusing proposed Warmogs.

Ladies and Gentlemen of the boards, in short, we must buff tanks and Warmogs stands out as the last pure tank item left and the only stat that it has that should be increased due to itemization problems is the regen. Thus, we must buff Warmogs in this way to give tanks a chance at being viable again.

Comments and questions are appreciated.

38 Comments

Sukishoo5 votes

Lol the 4 item 3075 's...

SnowFall4 votes

#BringBackFoN

ChaosThief1 votes

It was a pretty good item, but it was for everyone pretty much... not just tanks. SO RITO SAYS.

Also, if you wanted to type #BringBackFoN, use a backslash before the # , or it just makes it look bigger.

Earl Eulrich1 votes

and madreds :/ S2 itemization>>>everything after

ChaosThief1 votes

RIP old feral flare?

They could bring the healing scaling back, but uh, it would need some tweaking so he doesn't just get 40 hp per hit like before...

Trylobyte4 votes

I'd say the main problem pure tanks have is they're countered too easily. Stack HP? item 3153 and item 3151 exist. Stack resists? Everyone gets item 3135 or item 3035 or item 3071 by the time you get your resists up there. Some champions even have multiple items like this to defeat HP and resists at the same time. Health regen stands out because its counters are softer - item 3165 is somewhat rare, item 3123 is unheard-of, and there's usually only one or two summoner 14 per team.

IonCannonKarthus1 votes

Yeah, but the point is that base regen is supposed to help you sustain out of combat, similar to Garen's passive

redniwediS3 votes

I like the suggestion, and with a bit of tweaking it might actually be doable. It would surely help out with taking damage and retreating after to heal up, but we want to make sure it's not too good or squishy champs might actually be interested.

Perhaps simply adding flat regen to the current warmogs so it still benefits tanks the most?

IonCannonKarthus1 votes

I figured that squishy champions would still be more inclined to buy GA/QSS/FrozenMallet/Rylais/Zhonyas/Seraphs instead of Warmogs.

redniwediS1 votes

I don't know about you, but I'd rather fight an adc with an IE and GA than one with an IE and the proposed warmogs.

Phoenix Kotori 2 votes

I agree 50 flat regen would be abit much, especially when rushed in laning phase it would turn you into a brick wall.

It just needs 1% max hp + 20hp5 or so I feel.

Worgslarg4 votes

It's scaling should scale with level from perhaps 20 hp5 base to 45 hp5 at level 18 imo.

Phoenix Kotori 1 votes

Something like that could work too, it's just 50 hp5 in lane is the issue to me anyways.

Nightmist Dark3 votes

##buffvisage #buffmogs

ChaosThief2 votes

#buffvisage #buffmogs?

Nightmist Dark2 votes

item 3065 item 3083

Disconsented2 votes

It doesn't matter what you do while BOTRK exists

ChaosThief1 votes

You're assuming tanks don't build armor. It was a request for more health regen, making tanks last longer in fights.

Potato Jesus2 votes

Agreed, in the meta where top lane if dominated by poke and sustain, tanks get the short stick until late game, and even then tanks frequently have to base, due to their nature of soaking up damage, but having no way of replenishing it natural (excluding Mundo, Volibear, Maokai, etc.)

The5lacker2 votes

Because you weren't around for the Metagolem, allow me to educate you.

HEALTH REGEN AS A TANKING MECHANIC IS A TERRIBLE IDEA. SUSTAIN AS A TANKING MECHANIC ONLY WORKS WHEN THAT SUSTAIN CAN BE INTERRUPTED. UNINTERRUPTIBLE SUSTAIN CANNOT BE ALLOWED TO EXIST IN LARGE AMOUNTS.

Also, incredibly boring stat stick is incredibly boring and sticky.

Cloud Potato1 votes

This. Tanks can take a lot more damage than any other role (at least they're supposed to). If they have access to good sustain then they become unmovable. If Tanks had kits with more counterplay available, this wouldn't be so much of a problem, but as it is now it's mostly a battle of attrition when a Tank is involved.

SIlentShadow19911 votes

item 3065 already gives you 20 hp per 5 which is pretty good for regen....

IonCannonKarthus5 votes

It really isn't in the grand scheme of things sadly.

Tsunday3 votes

Spirit Visage gives overall worse stats than Banshee's unless you're a champion that can use its passive effectively.

Remlap12231 votes

I prefer Spirit Visage over Banshees on most champs I play (OP on Gangplank), but yeah the regen isn't what I get it for, it's for its glorious passive to make my bruisers' lifesteal more potent and Gangplank to get a vitamin C overload.

Darkomantis1 votes

I think it would be best if Riot gave Warmongs the item 3027 treatment seeing as how current AP bruisers in the top lane rush this item for straight tankiness and damage. Warmongs should do the same. Maybe seeing something similar to catalyst like:

item 1028 +item 1006 +item 1006 + 390g = item 3084 1150g combine cost -200 health -15 health regeneration per 5 secs Unique Passive: On leveling up, restores 200 health over 8 seconds

This item should be the answer when going against a AP champion toplane instead of the hideous thing Riot gave us , item 3211 , that costs too much, weird combine items(do I take a Doran's Shield and hope I don't get hit as much but can't prevent true harass past lv2 or a Ruby to hopefully pump out a true survival item?), and is difficult to build when you're stopped from CSing due to the harass popular AP lanes have at the moment effectively making it cost more than 1400g.

Additionally, with Warmongs, they need to make it stronger now that there is counters to health: item 3153 item 3151. Riot is scared of making it good for bruisers but AP champions in the top lane are going through the same process with RoA(Health, Sustain, and Damage!). They need to either make it have farming stats like it did before or scale with time like RoA. It's hard building items to stop yourself from getting killed in lane and then when you do make it out of the laning phase, you're getting hitting hard by ADCs huge crits since you have no reasonable armor besides a Doran's shield. Afterwards, reward build paths take use of having only 1-2 health like Atma's Impaler. People liked going light defensive, moderate health, but high damage as it was risky and fun.

sp4411 votes

How about an active?

Active UNIQUE: Rejuvenate - Health Regen is doubled for 5 seconds (60 Second Cooldown)

Potato Jesus1 votes

Feel's like a burden rather than a buff, having to reactivate every minute, and for the most part a lot of Champions naturally don't have a lot of regen, but champs like Mundo and Voli will become Godlike with this Active.

sp4411 votes

I dunno, I just figure that a regen-oriented Item should have a way for the champion to quickly leap back into the fray on an emergency.

MAZZ1M01 votes

I dunno, I just figure that a regen-oriented Item should have a way for the champion to quickly leap back into the fray on an emergency.

An active ability would be fair, but not a passive one.

Korentoth1 votes

I was just thinking about this. How about an active effect on an item with a large cooldown that gives a large amount of health over time? Basically a Mundo ult or Volibear passive on an item. If you can stay alive, the item pays off. But you'd want to save the active for fights (just like you'd save Mundo's ult).

How about health regen that scales with missing health? (Like Chalice -- 1% health regen (or maybe 1 hp/5) for each 1% missing health.) When you enter a teamfight, after you take the first wave of spells, you'll be at low health -- if you can stay alive for a short time, you'll recover a substantial amount of health, but staying out of combat altogether would give diminishing returns. If they don't focus the tank, the tank will recover. If they DO focus the tank, the adc will kill everyone >:)

Xyphios1 votes

Or... it could be 5% health per 5 seconds(1% per second)

Marthian2 votes

That would be absurdly broken. It would be mandatory on every tank.

Xyphios1 votes

or.. you could give it 5% health per 5 sec

ChaosThief1 votes

So incoming mundo, volibear,and every tank that stacks health, 'cause broken much?

MAZZ1M01 votes

I would like it no doubt, but with my tank Voli build I rarely die anyway and this would make it brokenly op. Passive life gain is dangerous for game health in large amounts. It's fine the way it is. Honestly I don't even get to Warmog's on Voli half the time. I get Golem, Randuins, Visage (if needed) and build hybrid from there like Sunfire or Mallet. Warmogs is in a good place.

67chrome1 votes

We are severely lacking in a health regen tank item,

What - you mean besides every MR item ever?

item 3065 ,item 3102 , and item 3190 all offer a sizable 400450 HP, which is only 0100 less HP than the HP/armor items in Sunfire and Omen. And they all offer a solid chunk of HP/5 in addition.

You really have to consider item 3083 as the only HP item if you're discounting those as HP/regen items.

Also - Spirit Visage's increased healing effects applied to all HP/5 (bases, items, runes, masteries, abilities, buffs), healing spells, health relics, healing potions, Baron Buff regeneration, life steal, spell vamp, jungle camp healing, jungler item healing, the Perseverance mastery, healing from the base fountain, etc.

You might also want to take a look at the number of fighters and tanks with regen stuck in their kit somewhere. Like, half the fighters in the game have HP/5 in their passive, and a lot of the ones that don't are like Irelia and Renekton and just have regen elsewhere. It's a lot easier to list melee champions that don't have health sustain than ones that do.

Also - It's not like you need in-built sustain to make use of it. Every champion has some base HP/5 to start with, and with masteries and HP/5 from some MR items you've got some solid sustain on otherwise no-sustain picks like Leona and JarvanIV

Sire Hippington1 votes

While i agree on a Warmongsbuff, i think such an amount of flat regen would be to strong if rushed. I'd prefer 3% of missing health as hp/5 it would need some maxhealth to scale up, so no massive lane-sustain if rushed and it would be rather weak if ur already healthy, but strong once u drop low, so it helps u more to stay in a fight or return to a fight after getting out low rather than staying fullhealth in lane and vs poke.

Another option would be increased regen out of combat...but itt's kinda sad that the champs designed to soak up damage suffer the most from getting damaged as they lack sustain, while an adc can gain back ungodly amounts of health with lifsteal in no time. If u don't burst an adc down 100-0 or chain-cc him, it's nearly impossible to killl him latgame

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