Let's talk Evelynn.

Dessem··16 votes·2,253 views

I know you don't want to, but we're going to do it anyway. (And yes, I know changes to Hunter Talisman are coming and might make Evelynn a bit better, hold that thought, though!)

Who's Evelynn? Evelynn is my go-to assassin-in-the-jungle, who excels due to exerting pressure on lanes in spite of their warding habits, and whose ganks give her plenty of time to find a position and angle from which to engage. She is my most played champion Season 5 with over a hundred games and a 63% winrate, so I like to think I'm pretty decent with her. She was also the second champion I fell in love with and the one champion where everything just seemed to make sense. I hold her pretty dear.

She has four abilities: one is a low CD line-of-effect damage spell, another is a speed boost/slow cleanse. Her third ability is an ASPD boost (not sure why) but also Evelynn's nuke. Her ult has the unique property of being the only ability in the game that can damage you but cannot kill you, as it is completely reliant on %current HP damage. It has a slow and shield attached to it, though.

Evelynn presents magic damage and physical damage, with one nuke and one sustained damage option. She has a shield and % current HP damage. Unlike many assassins, Evelynn does not have gapclosers or dashes, and relies on movement speed.

How's her jungling? I run Savagery and the -2 damage mastery on Evelynn, as well as full AP Quints, AD reds, and flat armour yellows. Regardless of which jungle item I pick, taking one camp and both buffs is tricky and leaves Evelynn nearly dead. To say it mildly, her first clear is not very good. It's therefore attractive to gank in lieu of clearing the jungle, or else lag behind.

Once she gets Runeglaive, Evelynns clears are pretty good and healthy and she can make quick work of camps, including using her W to reduce travel time inbetween camps. This does cause her to run low on Mana and necessitates using her Passive to recover some─Riot has stated they want Evelynn to be gated by Mana.

What's wrong with her? She is invisible until she uses any of her abilities, gets hit, or enters the vision range of a pink ward or champion. This makes counterplay to Evelynn limited to when she's entered vision range, necessitating purchase of pink wards or oracle alteration to prevent Evelynn from simply sneaking up to you unabashed. (Oracle Alteration having limited effect.)

This is considered as unhealthy and necessitates a sharp decline in power everywhere else, because Evelynn is too oppressive otherwise.

How's her stealth compared to other junglers/champions? Shaco has a blink and stealth that lasts a few seconds, but is immediate. You can see where he stealths from even through the fog of war. (i.e. you have ample warning Shaco is ganking you)

Twitch takes 1.5 seconds (increased when in combat) to engage stealth, during which he gains a movement speed boost. It is not currently possible to tell whether Twitch is or is not sneaking up on you.

Rengar telegraphs stealth by a huge exclamation mark, which is your signal to drop a pink or run Oracles. He has a gapcloser and movement speed bonus to prevent "run away" from being valid counterplay to his stealthed approach.

All other stealths are extremely short duration and/or are limited to a very specific area and thus incomparable. Only Teemo's stealth has no specific tell and can be upheld indefinitely regardless of proximity to champions, but is limited by location.

So why should we talk Evelynn? Back in Season 5, Evelynn received a buff to her Q. At some point, Magus Enchantment was replaced by Runeglaive as well. Evelynn synergises with the Runeglaive, giving her some extra burst beside her E/on her E. This prompted Riot to nerf Q's lategame damage farther than they had buffed it (resulting in a net loss). Riot also identified problems with Evelynn's Mana sustain due to Runeglaive, and made a targeted nerf there when Evelynn had a global 50% winrate (which is problematic for champions like Azir, Yasuo and Evelynn, who have high mechanics and player skill involved). Note: I don't agree Evelynn deserves to be mentioned in the same group as Azir and Yasuo, but that is a tale for another day.

This has all meant that Evelynn must build Runeglaive, because she is balanced around Runeglaive.

Currently, Evelynn sits at a 47% winrate at the Platinum and up level, with experienced players managing just shy of 51% winrate on her. Riot has stated that Evelynn mains had the fourth highest winrate of any champion in the game in season 5. Who are the top 3? We'll maybe never know.

Worth mentioning that Lee Sin, considered by Riot difficulty ratings to be easier to play than Evelynn, does have a slightly higher winrate. The problem may not be specific to just Evelynn, but read on anyway because there's other points I'd like to raise.

This is a good time to talk Evelynn: jungling's become harder on her: she has more issues with jungle camps than before, owing to reduced AP/AD from masteries (season 5 masteries gave some AD/AP at level 1, season 6 has scaling only) as well as a targeted nerf to jungle sustainability by splitting machete up into two items.

As the new jungle items are also more expensive, Evelynn will also experience a delayed power spike, pushing her power further back. (as we all know, assassin power spike delays means they become less effective at their job)

Additionally, Season 6 has reduced the cost of pink wards to 75 Gold and removed Green Wards from the equation, which means players are likely to buy a pink ward instead of a green ward, and players are more likely to buy pink wards to counter Evelynn aggressively than before. Oracle Alteration can spot her silhouette from beyond walls and at the farthest edge of its range, but shouldn't be considered that impactful against Evelynn.

Thereby, Evelynn's strongest time, the early game, has become more difficult for Evelynn to engage in due more difficult jungling and more expensive power spike. Moreover, the pink ward is more affordable now and has little competition at the 75 Gold I-Want-Vision pricepoint, so it is more attractive to buy as well.

TL;DR, seriously where do you want to go with this? I don't even know anymore. Playing Evelynn feels abysmal right now. I see a lot of threads addressing ADCs and Graves and Yasuo (fuck that guy) and poor Kog'Maw being weak, but there are few threads about junglers. Evelynn's one of those junglers who's been hit pretty hard by the season changes, and whose core of being a strong, invisible (independent) jungler has been harmed by seasonal changes that weaken jungler's earlygames. This endangers Evelynn as a champion and I feel that Evelynn requires a buff to her early game damage in order to remain competitive with other assassins.

I am aware of Hunter's Talisman being up for maybe-buffs, but that would only fix one potential issue and not the sharp decline in early game power for Evelynn, which is when she thrives most.

Also up for consideration: retooling her kit and making her an assassin with a clear ingress/egress strategy, and an ultimate that can kill; retool her Passive around avoiding ward detection instead of permanent invisibility that costs her way too much in the power budget. I'd be willing to talk about that as well if Riot's willing to enter that discussion, though there's likely other Evelynn mains who should weigh in on that discussion as well then.

44 Comments

Dominick Destine3 votes

I'm surprised an actual Evelynn player with decent stats is talking such nonsense; Here is a link to the referenced stats http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/EUW/Ramuhdo/champions (He's plat with a decent amount of Evelynn games of experience)

Here is a link to my stats http://www.lolskill.net/summoner/NA/Dominick%20Destine/champions (I'm Diamond with significantly more Evelynn games of experience)

Let's break down the arguments piece by piece;

This is a good time to talk Evelynn: jungling's become harder on her: she has more issues with jungle camps than before

This is correct but you must remember that Evelynn is specifically made this way. They have nerfed her early ratios and chunked her base damage more than once. The idea is to cripple her early game so she has to decide on farming or trying to gank, risking falling behind hard. They are trying to encourage meaningful decisions rather than "I can gank whenever and if I fail, it's no big deal".

They made this a bit more prominent in this pre-S6 but all non-sustain junglers are going through it not just Evelynn.

As the new jungle items are also more expensive, Evelynn will also experience a delayed power spike, pushing her power further back. (as we all know, assassin power spike delays means they become less effective at their job)

Almost correct but not quite. While it is true that item-wise, Evelynn will indeed experience a delay in her acquisition of power... you are not factoring in Thunderlord's Decree which offsets the delay you are speaking of.

Thereby, Evelynn's strongest time, the early game

I see a lot of players say "Evelynn is early game"... when Evelynn's early game has always been utter trash.

Evelynn is best mid game with her secondary power being late. She is worst at early game.

Playing Evelynn feels abysmal right now

Adapt. She is still a terrific jungler that becomes a terrifying presence mid and late.

Your play style is outdated, that is all.

I feel that Evelynn requires a buff to her early game damage

Holy shit no. Evelynn does NOT need buffs. She is perfectly fine the way she is.

Again, she took some hits, but it is offset by Thunderlord's Decree... and will be indirectly buffed when they make Homeguard automatic. Evelynn does NOT need buffs.

An interesting thing to note Stat-wise, I have higher kills and less deaths per game... but he has higher assists per game. It tells me he is not playing much assassination tactics but more to the "try to push my early advantage before I collapse during mid/late game". Bad play style does not work after changes.

EDIT: WOW YOUR BUILDS ARE ATROCIOUS. NO WONDER YOU THINK EVELYNN FEELS BAD NOW. HOLY MOTHERLESS GOAT..... seriously? exhaust? rylais? zekes harbinger? chalice? ninja tabi? you need to update your builds man, they are very very bad.

You are not even purchasing Hunter's Potion... there is nothing wrong with Evelynn, you are playing her wrong.

Dessem2 votes

You are not even purchasing Hunter's Potion...

This match history of my latest game with Evelynn proves otherwise. I did actually go into custom games and tried various ways of jungling to find out something that worked, and I'm still having a lot more trouble with clearing than I did before. It's possible I'm doing something terribly wrong, so I'm entirely open to counter-arguments like, "No, you are wrong, because..."

Though, I'm going to need a bit more than

there is nothing wrong with Evelynn, you are playing her wrong.

What exactly is it that I'm doing wrong, and that you have more success with? I really enjoy Evelynn and would like to play her with as much success as before, if not more. I picked her up when tank Evelynn was all hot and popular, so perhaps buying Ninja Tabis to deal with physical damage is a remnant of that. What would you suggest otherwise?

Last I checked, popular opinion was that Rylai was a good item on Evelynn due to the large amount of Slow it provides. If that's changed (or if you've a superior yet unpopular opinion), I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

I'll agree outright I'm not the best player in the game. I make my mistakes, and sometimes I blunder into victory through sheer coincidence rather than calculated movement. While it may be gratifying to go off and point out where I'm wrong, I would be very gratified to know why I am wrong, and what an alternate way to approach it is.

I can also agree I have had a focus on helping my teammates succeed as Evelynn. Exhaust has often blunted enemy divers on my ADC, and it has helped me deal with Lee Sins who invade my jungle. It was advice given to me by someone else who played Evelynn at the Platinum level, but I'm entirely open to claims that it's backwards advice. I'm interested in the 'why', though.

Dialogue about why Evelynn is still amazing is entirely welcome. I'd love to be wrong and discover that Evelynn is actually still very great, and I do invite you to enlighten me.

Dominick Destine3 votes

{quoted}

This match history of my latest game with Evelynn proves otherwise. I did actually go into custom games and tried various ways of jungling to find out something that worked, and I'm still having a lot more trouble with clearing than I did before.

Ok sure but when you made this thread, you had not played that yet.

It's possible I'm doing something terribly wrong, so I'm entirely open to counter-arguments like, "No, you are wrong, because..."

Then ask for advice, don't say Evelynn sucks.

What exactly is it that I'm doing wrong, and that you have more success with? I really enjoy Evelynn and would like to play her with as much success as before, if not more. I picked her up when tank Evelynn was all hot and popular, so perhaps buying Ninja Tabis to deal with physical damage is a remnant of that. What would you suggest otherwise?

Well, you have a very different play-style than I do, I play Evelynn a lot closer to her Assassin routes, especially focusing on mid game and only ganking early when a very obvious opportunity presents itself; Mostly scavenging.

I'll make a guide and hopefully it will answer your questions as to how I play her... you can take what works for you and adapt to your style. But I say this with no insult meant; You are playing her wrong for this patch and I know you can do better, you have done so before and can do so again.

Last I checked, popular opinion was that Rylai was a good item on Evelynn due to the large amount of Slow it provides. If that's changed (or if you've a superior yet unpopular opinion), I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

In my person opinion, it is a newb trap. It's expensive, provides very little damage for the cost and with slows not stacking anymore... you can only get benefit from it against a heavy tank (Garen/Nasus/Chogath) over a long chase and even then only after you blow Ult/Bluesmite.

I'll agree outright I'm not the best player in the game.

I am not either. You are good, I never meant to state you were bad, but your outright decry of Evelynn made me think otherwise. Your stats are good though, you are a good player.

I just think you need to update your builds, that's all.

I can also agree I have had a focus on helping my teammates succeed as Evelynn.

Yes, you are clearly far more team oriented whereas I am more of a lone wolf. Both are valid strategies but in my opinion, Evelynn is strongest when she is operating on her own , flanking the enemy and punishing stragglers.

We'll see, I'll work on it. Thank you for your insight.

Dessem2 votes

Ok sure but when you made this thread, you had not played that yet.

I actually made this thread after being so disappointed with how I was struggling in the jungle. Maybe it didn't update properly yet. Either way, it wasn't an actually important point to quibble on. Whether I do or do not buy it, your point was clearly that it should be purchased on her to improve her jungling.

Then ask for advice, don't say Evelynn sucks.

I didn't think I was actually doing something wrong at the time I wrote it. I considered it, but after trying various things I thought I could rule it out. Since you say there's a way to make her shine still, I'm obviously just having the wrong approach. It's like a bull trying to pass through a China shop; sometimes you don't realise you can just walk around it since you're too focused on one particular goal.

I say this with no insult meant

Rest assured no insult was taken. I took your capslock cruise control as exasperation in the sense of, "Of course you'd think that if you play her like that!" :-)

I look forward to the guide/pointers. I'd be very happy to put them into practice immediately; while I do play ADC, mid and top lately, Evelynn is still what I want to be playing. I've always felt more in control when playing her.

Widder881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=61pkPIPd,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-21T22:25:13.822+0000)

Evelynn is best mid game with her secondary power being late. She is worst at early game.

I agree. I'm glad to hear this. But it seems like we both play AP Evelynn. I think there are some Evelynn players who are cheese experts for the early game but have no plan about good itemization for Evelynn, so they think she is a early game champion (if they make this cheese work she actually is a early game champion too).

You are not even purchasing Hunter's Potion...

Hmm, I don't have big sustain problem after the first clear even without resolve masteries.

misfortunas1 votes

Nice, I build Eve like you do. But you know it yourself, getting all these expenisve items is such a pain in the ass.

lolipopevelynn3 votes

eves winrate is 45% and declining compared to 49% before preseason started.

the W nerf was the nail in the coffin to eve before preason, now they are just pissing on her grave. its fucking sad.

DynamiteGazelle3 votes

Oh god that W nerf. If I could change anything about Eve, it would be to get the old W passive back.

A reset mechanic on a skill that already resets. GG Rito

Widder881 votes

{quoted}

Oh god that W nerf. If I could change anything about Eve, it would be to get the old W passive back.

A reset mechanic on a skill that already resets. GG Rito

Revert the mana costs but the reset mechanic is good. I wonder if you buy CDR on Evelynn.

Getting the first kill is the most important thing. The reset on a kill is great, but it does not help to get the first kill. The new mechanic does help. If you have 45% CDR, W has a CD of 8.25 s and Q has a CD of 0.825 s. W lasts 3 seconds. So after you use W you use E (hits target twice, reduces W CD to 6.25 s), than you spam Q, within three seconds you can hit 4 Qs with this CD, so W gets reduced by another 4 seconds. Within these 3 seconds the CD reduces itself by 3 seconds of course, so the CD after 3 seconds is -0.75 seconds. So it is really easy to get the reset. This has helped much to assassinate champions, because Evelynns chasing ability was improved by a lot. The old passive had the same purpose but was not as powerful.

The Oasis1 votes

{quoted}

eves winrate is 45% and declining compared to 49% before preseason started.

the W nerf was the nail in the coffin to eve before preason, now they are just pissing on her grave. its fucking amazing.

Fixed that for you.

jaymc11303 votes

As a diamond level Eve player myself I love discussing her these days. I like your post but there are some things in it I disagree with, namely that you feel shes in a bad spot right now and that the vision changes hurt her. I own a 60% win rate with her even in high level play still. The truth is the vision changes actually helped her. The best way to track Evelynn in the past was using stealth wards to ward to areas she was surely going to be visible at, like her jungle camps. Even with the pink price reduction I am seeing so few total wards early in the game that eve has a very strong early game still via ganking and snowballing her team. The complete lack of vision options has basically given her free reign of the map in the portion of the game she excels at, early game pressure.

Jungle clears can be tough for her, but the thing I have taken to doing on almost all my junglers in this patch is to do 2 camps and then immediately back to upgrade my refill pot to a hunters pot. The sustain from this is crazy good and allows me to spend most of the first 10 minutes ganking and farming relentlessly applying an immense amount of pressure and often snowballing games past the point of no return. Its very easy to back and upgrade the pot then get to your second buff and then still be able to gank by the 3:30 mark, the average time for first ganks in competitive play, so the hunters pot rush is being dramatically undervalued in my opinion. I ascribe the drop in win rate with eve in high level play mostly to the fact that non eve mains are struggling adapting to the new jungle circumstances and even a large number of eve mains are failing to adapt. I have had zero issue with her in this patch and feel she's still viable as a top tier jungler even if god tier class mates Elise and Lee are now head and shoulders above the rest of the jungler crop. Just about the only thing that concerns me with eve at the moment is the nerf to her w. It was overly harsh.

Widder881 votes

{quoted} Also up for consideration: retooling her kit and making her an assassin with a clear ingress/egress strategy, and an ultimate that can kill;

I like her ultimate, but if it could kill, it would mean she could kill without being seen. I would prefer an increased Q damage if the target has low health, so that the overall current health/missing health damage is balanced. The ult should mean for the opponent (Evelynn perspective): "I am now going to kill you." Not: "Wtf killed me? I didn't saw anything."

retool her Passive around avoiding ward detection instead of permanent invisibility that costs her way too much in the power budget.

Stealth is her identity and if you take that away except against wards, this would be the biggest nerf in the history of LoL. It also would pressure Evelynn even more into the jungle position, what is not a good idea imo. Lane Evelynn is more healthy imo. Rather decrease the stealth time to 3 seconds at every level, so it is more useful in lane.

Increased Q damage against targets with low health would also be good for Lane Evelynn because it makes last hitting easier. Maybe an increased Q range with even lower missle speed at the end would be another option too (wouldn't be better for chasing, but better for farming and poking in lane).

But overall I like Evelynn as she is now, and don't want her to be changed much. And I am not sure yet if new jungle is really harder. But the game overall isn't balanced atm. Runeglaive is shit now. Don't buy it. You need no jungle item this season.

DynamiteGazelle1 votes

{quoted} Runeglaive is shit now. Don't buy it. You need no jungle item this season.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I've always preferred AD Eve anyways. There is no good jungle item for her anymore.

And like the OP said, I despise the fact that they balanced her around runeglaive. Eve used to have one of the most diverse build path options in the game

lolipopevelynn1 votes

{quoted}

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I've always preferred AD Eve anyways. There is no good jungle item for her anymore.

And like the OP said, I despise the fact that they balanced her around runeglaive. Eve used to have one of the most diverse build path options in the game

ive always prefferred AD aswell, especially crit eve. however the mana cost added to her W on top of essence reaver having its mana sustain nerfed really hurt AD/crit eve, ALOT.

if you can get around the mana issues crit eve is stronger just because of the item and mastery changes tho.

Widder881 votes

{quoted}

ive always prefferred AD aswell, especially crit eve. however the mana cost added to her W on top of essence reaver having its mana sustain nerfed really hurt AD/crit eve, ALOT.

if you can get around the mana issues crit eve is stronger just because of the item and mastery changes tho.

Sheen + Essence Reaver doesn't solve the mana problems? I think Essence Reaver + IE + Triforce could be strong for Evelynn. 40% CDR, 60% crit. Before the AD/crit item change, what was the point of playing AD Evelynn? AP Caster Evelynn is stronger than AD Caster Evelynn. So crits are the only thing that could make AD Evelynn stronger. But without the new Essence Reaver with crit and tons of CDR, I don't see a strong AD Evelynn build.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

Sheen + Essence Reaver doesn't solve the mana problems? I think Essence Reaver + IE + Triforce could be strong for Evelynn. 40% CDR, 60% crit. Before the AD/crit item change, what was the point of playing AD Evelynn? AP Caster Evelynn is stronger than AD Caster Evelynn. So crits are the only thing that could make AD Evelynn stronger. But without the new Essence Reaver with crit and tons of CDR, I don't see a strong AD Evelynn build.

AD bruiser eve was hilariously strong before the AP itemization changes that made rylais op as balls. I played eve AD bruiser most of the first part of this season, typically with a build like this:

item 1324 item 1400 item 3153 item 3078 item 3143

and then these depending on the situation:

item 3075 item 3139 item 3102 item 3190 item 3026

I had a 73% win rate on a smurf from silver to plat with this style of build. Its still ok, but rylai's is so strong it should be abused on eve. Crit wasn't ever the main thing for eve, she just needed to stick to targets and pump out qs. Bork has changed this patch and I haven't played this style eve in a while but it was great for playing her as a hyper carry.

Widder881 votes

I played AD Evelynn in Season 4 with Sotel+Hydra+Iceborn Gauntlet+Tank items until maybe Patch 4.14-4.15, when I changed to AP. The strength of the AD build is the 120% AS steroid to melt people combined with enough tankyness to survive it. But I found out that I underestimated the damage of AP Eve, and that she makes better use of her stealth because of better assassination potential in the late game.

Then her E was buffed in Patch 5.1 so that it applys on hit effects. With Botrk+Triforce AD Eve had almost the burst of AP Eve in the mid game, but with less late game scaling. Rylais was buffed, it helps AP Eve, but it also helps if you buy AD, because you need the slow even more if you need to do AAs.

Botrk is nerfed now and Triforce gives less burst but more crit. Triforce+Botrk was not even worth it compared to AP before the change imo, but with the new Essence Reaver I want to try out a AD+crit build at some point, because crit itemization was never better for Evelynn than now. I tried already a Rageblade-tanky build in Dominion and it was terrible, but crits could be the thing that lets AD Evelynn scale well, I don't know.

But if crit is not even the thing for you, but spamming Qs, I suggest to try a AP-CDR build. With 45% CDR the Q-DPS is really great. Nashors Tooth is a great item, which also makes her Autoattack stronger. When I played AD Evelynn Nashors Tooth was the item, which convinced me of AP Evelynn, even before E applied on hit effects.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks this. I've always preferred AD Eve anyways. There is no good jungle item for her anymore.

And like the OP said, I despise the fact that they balanced her around runeglaive. Eve used to have one of the most diverse build path options in the game

She still does, the big change was when rylais got buffed in the AP itemization rework. Its so easily abused by eve that runeglaive became the defacto jungle item for her because building RG>Rylai gave players insane sticking power and burst prior to the 20 minute mark. You can still play her other ways, but rylai is just so good I would always recommend going RG>Rylai into 4 situational items as long as rylai keeps its buffed slow.

Widder881 votes

{quoted} building RG>Rylai gave players insane sticking power and burst prior to the 20 minute mark.

Imagine the burst of Runeglaive+Rabadons.

You can still play her other ways, but rylai is just so good I would always recommend going RG>Rylai into 4 situational items as long as rylai keeps its buffed slow.

Compare Runeglaive to Talisman+Machete+Sheen+Blasting Wand. Both give 40 AP, 10% CDR, 100% base AD sheen proc, jungle experience and sustain. Runeglaive costs 75 more but gives a special smite and 30% AP scaling on sheen. But Runeglaive denies a later Lich bane and it denies to sell talisman and Machete later what is worth 490 gold. It is just better to don't finish the jungle item imo, to buy a Sheen early and then build whatever you prioritize maybe Rylais if you like it or something else.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

Imagine the burst of Runeglaive+Rabadons.

Compare Runeglaive to Talisman+Machete+Sheen+Blasting Wand. Both give 40 AP, 10% CDR, 100% base AD sheen proc, jungle experience and sustain. Runeglaive costs 75 more but gives a special smite and 30% AP scaling on sheen. But Runeglaive denies a later Lich bane and it denies to sell talisman and Machete later what is worth 490 gold. It is just better to don't finish the jungle item imo, to buy a Sheen early and then build whatever you prioritize maybe Rylais if you like it or something else.

Nah, runeglaive first on eve for a reason, the sheen. Its the cheapest item she can build with her typical starting item that includes a sheen. That dmg proc inside of 8 minutes is very very strong and her mana issues require something to sustain mana, the bonus of RG, so RG first is always right. Or really finishing any jungle item on her first is right. Either warrior or RG are both good to finish asap.

Widder881 votes

{quoted}

Nah, runeglaive first on eve for a reason, the sheen. Its the cheapest item she can build with her typical starting item that includes a sheen. That dmg proc inside of 8 minutes is very very strong and her mana issues require something to sustain mana, the bonus of RG, so RG first is always right.

Runeglaive only gives a 30% AP scaling to sheen what is very low when you only get 40 AP from Runeglaive. So there is not really a powerspike compared to a normal sheen. And sheens mana itself solves Evelynns mana problems because the mana regen of her passive scales with mana. That you get mana back from sheen proc against jungle monsters is not really necessary.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

Runeglaive only gives a 30% AP scaling to sheen what is very low when you only get 40 AP from Runeglaive. So there is not really a powerspike compared to a normal sheen. And sheens mana itself solves Evelynns mana problems because the mana regen of her passive scales with mana. That you get mana back from sheen proc against jungle monsters is not really necessary.

Nah, especially with the recent nerf to her w RG is crucial as a mana regen piece. Its extremely important if you want to be active. The sheen proc, regardless of high much it is, is also extremely good on eve and the earlier you can get it the better.

Widder881 votes

{quoted}

Nah, especially with the recent nerf to her w RG is crucial as a mana regen piece. Its extremely important if you want to be active. The sheen proc, regardless of high much it is, is also extremely good on eve and the earlier you can get it the better.

I didn't played Eve without sheen since the mana nerf, but I never had mana problems when I had it but no Runeglaive.

Runeglaive gives only a 30% AP scaling to sheen while offering 40 AP. So the sheen proc is incresaed by around 12 damage. Runeglaive is a pitiful powerspike compared to Lich bane later.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

I didn't played Eve without sheen since the mana nerf, but I never had mana problems when I had it but no Runeglaive.

Runeglaive gives only a 30% AP scaling to sheen while offering 40 AP. So the sheen proc is incresaed by around 12 damage. Runeglaive is a pitiful powerspike compared to Lich bane later.

Oh for sure lich is much better if you stack some significant ap, if you're mostly looking for early game influence a completed rg gives eve very significant dmg out put against any target for the first 20 minutes, the time frame she works best in as an early game pressure style snowball champ, and it remains significant dmg versus squishies even in late game. Even in diamond I consistently put out the highest dmg to champs total on my team with just rg and Rylai as dmg items and solely tank items afterward. Certainly not every game but in more than my fair share, so I don't feel like eve's dmg out put is ever an issue, the only thing she requires to pump out significant dmg is sheen. Every dmg item after that is really just bonus built to fit your play style. I prefer more of a durable style eve and rely on decision making and positioning to accomplish my objectives.

Widder881 votes

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Oh for sure lich is much better if you stack some significant ap

It gives double as much AP as Runeglaive. That is much better for Evelynns Q.

Even in diamond I consistently put out the highest dmg to champs total on my team with just rg and Rylai as dmg items and solely tank items afterward.

Ok, you don't buy much AP, so Lich bane is not that appealing. But I would buy Warrior if I go tanky. Maybe with Iceborn Gauntlet afterwards. 60 AD increases the Q damage by 42, while 40 AP only add 22 damage. And you don't need much Autoattacks to outperform the nerfed Runeglaive in E/AA-damage too.

jaymc11301 votes

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It gives double as much AP as Runeglaive. That is much better for Evelynns Q.

Yeah, but with Rylai, if I cant kill them in one ravage and as many qs as it takes in the next 2 seconds I just unload the burst and back off. No matter how much dmg you build you ain't gonna do a whole lot better than assassinating in under 2 seconds so I make do with the minimal amount required for that and spend most team fights initiating from a flank, assassinating the squishy then mad peeling for my carries with super duper peel cheese q spams.

Ok, you don't buy much AP, so Lich bane is not that appealing. But I would buy Warrior if I go tanky. Probably with Iceborn Gauntlet afterwards. 60 AD increases the Q damage by 42, while 40 AP only add 22 damage. And you don't need much Autoattacks to outperform the nerfed Runeglaive in E/AA-damage too.

Yeah, not much AP in my build, and since I'm so effective so early in games and particularly on this patch with how snowbally it is I will never be able to build enough AP to make waiting on completing a jungler item to go for Lich worthwhile when I can just build RG by the 8th minute and roflstomp the game and force a surrender half the time by 20. But my whole style of playing eve is early game pressure so my play pattern, itemization, and rune/mastery set up is always geared to make my pre 10 minute game as effective as possible. All I wanna do when I play eve is snowball myself and the ADC. If I get a chance I'll try to get more than just one gank off mid and top after I gank them both by 6 or 7 minutes, but mostly I just hang around bot til they lose enough towers and we've taken two drakes to none before I roam off to mess around in other lanes.

I used to play her AP assassin style back in season 2 using any number of builds that included DFG. That shit was hilarious. Season one was even sillier, it basically didn't matter what you built, just play her right, flank right, kill stuff. Season 3 the early portion I gave up playing her after the changes to her ult and too many overall nerfs. About half way through I took up playing her Burn style with elder lizard, IBG, Liandries and that was fun but probably the least effective eve ever was. I picked up AD bruiser style some in season 4 and when season 5 rolled around I realized I really liked and understood her playstyle and when I decided to switch to being a JG main I figured eve was in a perfect position to go most of the season as a dominant force and it worked out well for me. At this point shes probably the champ on which I am most consistent and definitely in my best 3 champs. She's a lot of fun to play and I've done just about everything you can do with her.

Widder881 votes

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Yeah, not much AP in my build, and since I'm so effective so early in games and particularly on this patch with how snowbally it is I will never be able to build enough AP to make waiting on completing a jungler item to go for Lich worthwhile when I can just build RG by the 8th minute and roflstomp the game and force a surrender half the time by 20.

While Lich bane is better than Runeglaive later in the game Warrior is better early. Lets say you are Level 7 (71 base AD) and have 26 AP without a jungle item, and you do a Q-E-AA-Q combo to an enemy champion. Warrior will add 204 damage to that combo. Runeglaive will only add 175 damage to that combo.

I used to play her AP assassin style back in season 2 using any number of builds that included DFG. That shit was hilarious. Season one was even sillier, it basically didn't matter what you built, just play her right, flank right, kill stuff. Season 3 the early portion I gave up playing her after the changes to her ult and too many overall nerfs. About half way through I took up playing her Burn style with elder lizard, IGB, Liandries and that was fun but probably the least effective eve ever was. I picked up AD bruiser style some in season 4 and when season 5 rolled around I realized I really liked and understood her playstyle and when I decided to switch to being a JG main I figured eve was in a perfect position to go most of the season as a dominant force and it worked out well for me. At this point shes probably the champ on which I am most consistent and definitely in my best 3 champs. She's a lot of fun to play and I've done just about everything you can do with her.

I played her AD in Season 4, but AP since Late Season 4.

You played her AP in Season 2, but now tankier. But since then her Q base damage was nerfed while the AP scaling was buffed. And E applies on hit effects now for a possible 180% AP scaling with Nashors+Lich bane. E is physical damage now, but instead of magic pen it is possible to stack CDR, AP, and build a 180% AP scaling on E.

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

While Lich bane is better than Runeglaive later in the game Warrior is better early. Lets say you are Level 7 (71 base AD) and have 26 AP without a jungle item, and you do a Q-E-AA-Q combo to an enemy champion. Warrior will add 204 damage to that combo. Runeglaive will only add 175 damage to that combo.

Yep and then my next Q kills them any ways. Also, armor runes are a lot more common than MR runes, so the net dmg dealt is going to be much closer to only being 10 total dmg different, which is negligible when my next q or aa will kill them any ways. If all else fails I've got chilling smite and can just execute them with true damage.

I played her AD in Season 4, but AP since Late Season 4.

You played her AP in Season 2, but now tankier. But since then her Q base damage was nerfed while the AP scaling was buffed. And E applies on hit effects now for a possible 180% AP scaling with Nashors+Lich bane. E is physical damage now, but instead of magic pen it is possible to stack CDR, AP, and build a 180% AP scaling on E.

Yeah, her mixed damage is really awkward now. There's a lot of ways you can play her and with a champ like that it really comes down to personal preference. Like I said I've come to rely on good decision making and positioning over brute force. Basically, I play her smarter now, not harder. I carry a little less hard sure, but my teammates carry a lot harder for my showing them some love and that's fine by me.

Widder881 votes

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Yep and then my next Q kills them any ways.

So itemization doesn't matter because you kill them anyway. Nice.

Dominick Destine1 votes

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Runeglaive only gives a 30% AP scaling to sheen what is very low when you only get 40 AP from Runeglaive. So there is not really a powerspike compared to a normal sheen.

You do realize that Runeglaive's damage is magical, and MR is less common across the board... add to this, Runeglaive even alone, gives greater damage than Sheen, plus added sustain due to the large improvement when it comes to jungler clears (Faster clear , take less damage).

Sheen by itself sucks.

Widder881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=61pkPIPd,comment-id=0000000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2015-11-22T21:24:15.444+0000)

You do realize that Runeglaive's damage is magical, and MR is less common across the board...

Champions start with less armor than magic resist at Level 1, and 12 MR from runes are common while only 9 armor from runes are common. Armor and magic resist breaks even at around Level 6-7. So it is right that around Level 9 magic damage is a slight advantage, but not a big advantage. A little bit later you can purchase Lich bane and than you have the magic damage sheen without Runeglaive, so it doesn't matter later in the game. If you buy magic penetration early this can change things, but I don't recommend this: Ionian boots are better than Sorcerers, the deep cunning tree is better than the deep ferocity tree, and AD marks are better than penetration marks.

add to this, Runeglaive even alone, gives greater damage than Sheen

12 more damage. Doesn't matter much. But Lich bane is way stronger than Runeglaive, and you can get a lot of money back by selling Machete and Talisman later in the game.

plus added sustain due to the large improvement when it comes to jungler clears (Faster clear , take less damage).

The jungle clear doesn't matter at this point in the game, this is pure QoL.

Dominick Destine1 votes

{quoted}

Champions start with less armor than magic resist at Level 1, and 12 MR from runes are common while only 9 armor from runes are common. Armor and magic resist breaks even at around Level 6-7. So it is right that around Level 9 magic damage is a slight advantage, but not a big advantage. A little bit later you can purchase Lich bane and than you have the magic damage sheen without Runeglaive, so it doesn't matter later in the game. If you buy magic penetration early this can change things, but I don't recommend this: Ionian boots are better than Sorcerers, the deep cunning tree is better than the deep ferocity tree, and AD marks are better than penetration marks.

Only certain champions get MR increases per level. Did you forget?

12 more damage. Doesn't matter much. But Lich bane is way stronger than Runeglaive, and you can get a lot of money back by selling Machete and Talisman later in the game.

Meaningless. More damage = More damage.

The jungle clear doesn't matter at this point in the game, this is pure QoL.

Absolute nonsense. The speed of jungle clear is always relevant.

Widder881 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=61pkPIPd,comment-id=000000000001000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-23T07:24:06.516+0000)

Only certain champions get MR increases per level. Did you forget?

Almost all meele champions get it, and they have often more Armor too. I said around Level 6-7. Sona for example at Level 6 with common runes. Nasus for example at Level 7 with common runes. Their are also a lot of champions where it breaks even at Level 5. But what I said is true for the average.

Meaningless. More damage = More damage.

Troll. 1000 more damage is not equal to 1 more damage.

Yes, you get a little bit stronger sheen earlier, but it hurts much more when you can't get Lich bane later. Lich bane is way more costs efficient than Runeglaive. They give the same type of stats, so this is what matters.

Absolute nonsense. The speed of jungle clear is always relevant.

I can clear the jungle at this point without taking damage without it, and I only need a little bit more mana, what only means that I get more mana back from my passive. Why should I care about this? Important is that I have the combat power to assassinate champions.

Niyumi1 votes

I'm going to agree with the Dominick guy who posted earlier; Eve is by no means weak, she's just a little harder to get going with now.

okino1 votes

I've actually seen her in my past few games and she was pretty good when she snowballed. But after our team shut her down she kinda stayed down. But before that, her presence was really strong and damage could really knock the squishes who were ahead down a few notches

misfortunas1 votes

All she needs is decent scaling to her ult... from 1% per 100 ap to 3% per 100 ap. It should not be a flank tool, it should be an assasination tool because Evelynn IS an assasin. Her burst without any items is 310 base damage + 25% of the targets current health with a 1.55 ratio.. thats not even half of Leblanc Elise Katarina entire combos.. Like, why can Rengar assasinate whoever he wants to at his pleasure when Eve isn't even allowed to have burst by any means. I get that Eve has perma invisibility and Rengo does not, but Rengars ult cooldown has the same cooldown of Eve's assasination rotations. In short, they both will be invisible before assasinating the target and rengar's "!" is completely useless compared to Eve's warnings. Eve needs about 4-5 items before having decent burst, she should not be balanced around her stupid passive.

jaymc11302 votes

{quoted}

All she needs is decent scaling to her ult... from 1% per 100 ap to 3% per 100 ap. It should not be a flank tool, it should be an assasination tool because Evelynn IS an assasin. Her burst without any items is 310 base damage + 25% of the targets current health with a 1.55 ratio.. thats not even half of Leblanc Elise Katarina entire combos.. Like, why can Rengar assasinate whoever he wants to at his pleasure when Eve isn't even allowed to have burst by any means. I get that Eve has perma invisibility and Rengo does not, but Rengars ult cooldown has the same cooldown of Eve's assasination rotations. In short, they both will be invisible before assasinating the target and rengar's "!" is completely useless compared to Eve's warnings. Eve needs about 4-5 items before having decent burst, she should not be balanced around her stupid passive.

Shes not supposed to be a burst assassin. Shes a dps assassin. The point of eve is to flank a priority target, then ravage and q away. The initial burst with just Runeglaive is huge, I usually have it by the 8th minute and my first ravage>aa>q> usually takes about 60% of the targets hp so her burst early is very strong. If you build her AP assassin instead of AP bruiser her burst is quite ridiculous indeed with a build something like:item 1402 item 3116 item 3157 item 3001 item 3020

The issue with eve back in season 2 was that her ult had the scaling you are talking about and was %total HP instead of current HP which lead often times to being assassinated from the fog of war, particularly since DFG was still around and her ult cast range then was larger than her visibility range.

YuGiHo1 votes

I totally agree with all of this, I feel that i had more success with Post nerf pre rework eve than it do now. I cant figure out any reliable build path or Rune/mastery setup for her because they change up the items she has access to and nerf her so much.

I honestly believe riot hates eve, they never want to talk about her other than the little blurb she gets in patch notes when she gets new nerfs. They dont even thinks its a problem then the most viable build for and assassin Is to be a tank

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

I totally agree with all of this, I feel that i had more success with Post nerf pre rework eve than it do now. I cant figure out any reliable build path or Rune/mastery setup for her because they change up the items she has access to and nerf her so much.

I honestly believe riot hates eve, they never want to talk about her other than the little blurb she gets in patch notes when she gets new nerfs. They dont even thinks its a problem then the most viable build for and assassin Is to be a tank

Long live the Tanksassin!

Item wise, eve is a bit like jax. If you can build it, its probably good on her. It merely changes the style she needs to be played in. I've played eve through 2 reworks since season one and chose her to be my go to when I transitioned into maining jungle as a role this season instead of mid lane. I get what you mean about reliable rune and mastery set ups. I've run some really strange stuff. For the first half of this season on AD bruiser eve I ran crazy 13-5-12 masteries with flat AD marks armor seals (scaling or flat) CDR per level glyphs and 2 lifesteal quints and one spell vamp quint. It allowed me to have 6% lifesteal and 5% spell vamp and easily clear jungle camps early in the game with plenty of HP left to gank anywhere at will without fearing a death if I committed poorly. It took me almost a month to work out that rune and mastery setup for AD bruiser eve. Shes definitely a champ that requires tinkering around with to find what best suits your playstyle with her.

YuGiHo1 votes

Can i ask what rune setup your using now?

jaymc11301 votes

{quoted}

Can i ask what rune setup your using now?

Currently I have found that I like 12/18/0 with her and I rush the Hunters Pot (usually backing after 2 camps) for the sustain and focus completely on early game dmg out put to better aid me in snowballing on my ganks. Rune wise I run flat AD marks, flat AP quints, Scaling armor yellows (I've always like scaling armors better than flat but either is fine), and either flat AP glyphs or scaling CDR glyphs (depending on matchup and whether or not I intend to build FH). I'm still tinkering with the exact mastery set up and I cant decide between Oppressor and Bounty Hunter. If I'm successful on every gank AND get the kill then Bounty Hunter is better, but Oppressor is reliable dmg with Rylai. Vampirism and Double Edged sword are automatic and she wont need Atk Spd they way I play her so those are easy. I waffle between Wanderer and Savagery and would probably take Savagery if it applied on her Q. I like Runic Affinity seeing as I intend to rush Hunters Pot for basically infinite sustain so I like having my first set of buffs as long as possible to gank every lane with doubles. Merciless, Dangerous Game, and Thunderlords Decree are automatic and then the last one I waffle on is Intelligence vs Precision but I've stuck with Precision the last few days and I like the focus of everything on her dmg output for the early game to help me snowball.

BladeSteel1 votes

I've had a lot of success building runeglaive into gunblade then rageblade on her. games ususally end after that , but im always positive. best game was 16-1 as her about a week ago. early I focus on ganking (usually don't get kills first time, but can get flash/heal/exhaust from bot or other lanes, then I go farm a camp then come back b/c they're already pushed back up and get a kill or two). then "midgame" I focus on pusshing the lanes where noone is and farming since thats eve's weakest point in the game (also look out for weak jg or other laners that are about to back. I've gotten many kills that way) Then once you have a gunblade and your runeglaive, its time to strike. I've found i can 1v1 anyone at that point unless they're super fed.

Secret Butt Fun1 votes

Yes, the patch made jungle harder for some champs including Evelynn , but it is also possibly the best thing to happen to her. Why?

If red side, take Krugs and go directly to enemy blue. As an Eve main, I've gotten guaranteed first blood every time. Most people's health is within the range where an E, AA, and Q is enough to kill them.

Think outside the box. It's too fucking easy to kill people in their jg than ever before lol.

Get summoner 6 .

Dessem1 votes

If red side, take Krugs and go directly to enemy blue. As an Eve main, I've gotten guaranteed first blood every time.

In Season 5, you could do this with many champions as well. Could even start enemy Wolves (ward blue as it spawns), then Smite blue and kill the jungler.

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