I played him for first time and did so well with him. He is so fun to play with and does a lot of damage while being safe. I don't understand why no one plays him. Is it because he is bad? Even his win% sucks. Could i just be good at him? Im surprised I did so well since he is a pretty difficult champion to play (i think)
Hyperiön12 votesHere's the thing with Ziggs, he lost most of his kill pressure when they nerfed his Q and E. Now, the only way you get a kill in lane is if your lane opponent is very stupid. that he can not dodge a slow moving skill.
Another thing, is while he has great wave clear, and his Ultimate, thats all he is good for. And late game for his W. Almost all meta Mages out damage him, have mobility, and utility.
I love Ziggs, but they nerfs they game him put him 6 feet under.
Aonraider1 votesIs he still a potential strong champ?
Hyperiön2 votesHe is, as the guy below said, one the main ones get slight touchups, he will be back, along with orianna.
DJMason882 votesOri is already strong
MunchCrunchLunch1 voteswhy would you play a potentially strong champion. when you can play a consistently. strong champion. ziggs isn't consistent at all. his ult is easy to dodge. he has no kill pressure except poking. down. really slowly. and that kind of goes away after your enemy has the kill pressure on you.
i play ziggs tho. i like the safe waveclear. other champs can prob do that and other things better but i do enjoy ziggs. recently picked him up
Weasel Kensei1 votesI agree a lot with this.
One way I play him is as a wave clear, siege asset. Enemy team coming with a double minion wave to take that turret? Ziggs clears both waves easy. Get the minion momentum on your side, W is an eminent threat to tower destruction and a threat that the divers will be in very soon.
In a bogged down teamfight he can get some real ugly damage off if they get locked down, or cant focus on dodging his Q while fighting. For this reason Ziggs works best with a multi tank team that can survive long enough for him to make a skill rotation and pound in 3 or more Qs after the first. Bonus points if you have Deathfire touch and 
and open your rotation with your ult. Sure it takes away that sweet execution maneuver, or a one stroke penta-kill, but 5 assist gold will beat out 1-2 kill gold and with 
you may have set up a wipe, or helped someone kite and not die.
He is also safe in that he can wave clear very far away, and his W can disengage a lot of opponents. He reminds me of Cait a bit, super range, strong disengage. He pays for this in lower kill pressure though.
Ziggs can be interesting to build too. He can be I think a bit more flexible than some mages. A flat huge AP coupled with 40% cdr means you will tear through single waves of minions faster than an ADC with 
. The rate slows down with larger wave sizes but is still very fast. Huge AP also means you can knock down a tower almost as fast as an ADC, but often faster since late game you only have to knock it down half way cause of your W. This makes Ziggs a bit like Trist when it comes to objective siege.
With a full penetration build you wont put out as much damage as some mages, but you will be doing it to a lot of people and because Q is so spammable and long range, you can keep an ADC moving slowing down their damage often.
The trick is like always, building for what your fighting, and having an item set that helps Ziggs do what you want him to do to help your team win. It will probably involve explosives, and will be super fun.
Meep Man4 votesBecause people believe you need to get kills in lane in order to be ahead, when in reality, Ziggs can zone enemies really well out of lane from a decent range while also getting farm himself.
atomicwit1 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5nhQAcbc,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-09-27T13:28:48.835+0000)
Because people believe you need to get kills in lane in order to be ahead, when in reality, Ziggs can zone enemies really well out of lane from a decent range while also getting farm himself.
That's true to an extent but many champions can bully Ziggs as well. Even Ahri can outpressure him, especially at 6. There's a reason that high ELO pretty much doesn't touch him anymore. It's not like they forgot he used to be meta season 4. He's not a new or sleeper champion. He used to be so popular but a lot of his strengths aren't as relevant now. For example, with how long Baron lasts now and how hard it is to clear Baron minions, Ziggs' ability to stall a game is much lower. His ult. also doesn't do bonus damage to minions anymore.
Meep Man1 votesAhri can't pressure Ziggs in lane, I don't know what you are talking about. I mean, sure, if she Flash+R to get him, he might die, but that's anyone with burst and only once every 5 minutes. Ziggs Q's range is incredibly high and you can farm from a very safe distance with it, especially if you build right. Also, yes, Ziggs can't just stall a game anymore, but he can chunk a tower late game. I've seen Ziggs kill towers within a single minion wave.
atomicwit1 votes[{quoted}](name=Inept Maverick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5nhQAcbc,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2016-09-27T18:55:11.665+0000)
Ahri can't pressure Ziggs in lane, I don't know what you are talking about. I mean, sure, if she Flash+R to get him, he might die, but that's anyone with burst and only once every 5 minutes. Ziggs Q's range is incredibly high and you can farm from a very safe distance with it, especially if you build right. Also, yes, Ziggs can't just stall a game anymore, but he can chunk a tower late game. I've seen Ziggs kill towers within a single minion wave.
Ahri has a 55-56% winrate vs Ziggs in Plat+ according to leaguegraphs. A good Ahri should have kill pressure at 6 (maybe not from 100% but it's not like Ahri can't poke and then gapclose forever). Since, she can use the ult. as an escape too, she gets away with playing aggro. Ziggs, on the other hand, has 0 kill pressure unless Ahri plays awful.
Meep Man1 votesI recognize Ziggs has little kill pressure, but that's kind of what my first post said. Ziggs forces farm lanes due to his range. Try hopping onto a good Ziggs with Ult alone. I doubt you can kill him because not only is he miles away from you, but he also has mobility himself. Ziggs makes both laners have little kill pressure. The only champions who can ignore this are Zed and maybe LeBlanc from my own experience.
Sire Hippington3 votesWell, unless you really like him as character, there simply is no reason to play him over other mages, especially Xerath and Vel'koz. His poke is unreliable in compareision, he lacks snipeing potential, his aoe isn't much better, his waveclear isn't better, and while he has some escape, he still isn't really saver, his zone controll isn't that massive either, the only thing really setting him appart is his anti tower mechanics, which don't really matter in a world where towers die in ~3sec anyways come to lategame...
ABlueQuaker2 votesZiggs is kinda just 'Generic Mage No. <insert number here>'. He's not played because he's not one of the main OP mage clones at the moment. Once a few of his competitors get nerfed, people will flock to him.
I like to call it reverse powercreep.
You know the game designers are crap when players have to start looking for the least-worst champions.
Aonraider1 votesI feel like hes the best mid to push and get tower
Crowe Stalker1 votesI feel like hes the best mid to push and get tower
That's literally his design intention: Pushing and Siege. Riot made it that way in 6.9
Junkο1 votesTaking a mid turret asap isn't really a good idea though. You can't stay in lane to farm if minions push deeper into their territory because you can easily get ganked, and his kit isn't really that ideal for helping sidelanes outside of his ult, and he can't clear the jungle well to not fall behind either.
Rock MD1 votesTaking a mid turret asap isn't really a good idea though.
How else am I supposed to get that sick 600 gold turret bounty?
dapositiveviking1 votesplay proxy singed top
Sohleks1 votesThat's not true at all though. Taking mid turrent is 100% worth in almost every possible circumstance. It's strategically a hugely important tower.
If your opponent won't push back the lane its closer proximity to the enemy nexus reinforces enemy creeps first so it naturally pushes out and they're losing more farm than yourself and you get a fatty wave. Unless you finish their tower with a wave stacked greater than a normal minion wave spawned every 30 seconds and you don't push it to the next tower 5 feet away but that basically never happens mid lane in a lane dominated by waveclear and roaming. That's top/bot lane dynamics really. If your opponent is literally freezing mid at his t2 you're either crushing enough you can roam as a mid laner and win top/bot lane or just walk up and delete his freeze with 2 spells lol
Junkο1 votesNot really. Unless you are playing somebody who has safety tools or can 1v2 when ahead (which most mids can't), pushing further than first turret is a horrible idea because any jungler with a brain will just camp you. Hell even safety tools won't save you from junglers who are mobile or have shit tons of instant burst.
It's better to just let mid turret live with small amount of health then just kill it when your team rotates to mid, or if the enemy team is close to killing a turret so they don't get the FB on turrets. Hell even for top lane you are better off keeping the turret so you can keep bullying your lane opponent when ahead then letting your minions push into a zone he is a lot safer in, unless you are a splitpusher.
Tychusfindlay9194 votesI feel like hes the best mid to push and get tower
I'd prefer xerath over ziggs.
Aonraider1 votesWhy? Ziggs passive works on tower + w
dapositiveviking1 votesonce you're at the tower, sure. but xerath's w-q is much nicer for pushing to the tower and with how ap interacts with damaging towers ziggs's extra damage isn't as appreciated as it could be
Lauchmelder1 votesI think Azir could push a tower faster if it wouldn't be for Ziggs Satchel Charge.
Sire Hippington1 votesThe issue is that, aside from the gold, ziggs has not much use from takeing an early tower, he can't push out anymore because he's to easy to gank which would allow opponents to freeze, and his roams aren't strong.
Unless the entire setup is tailored towards an early fastpush, getting that early tower often hurts ziggs more than it helps.
Weasel Kensei1 votes[{quoted}](name=FA Quaker,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5nhQAcbc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-09-27T12:37:48.753+0000)
You know the game designers are crap when players have to start looking for the least-worst champions.
Vs what? Picking the thing that is obviously broken? Thats NOT crap game designers? Or when they buff/rework a champ and they explode in power? Honestly having to look for the "least-worst" champ would just about be the best situation we could have so long as it applied to all the roles.
Maximum Morde2 votesHeavily nerfed wave clear, unreliability in his Q, mana costs a bit restrictive, gets dunked by current meta mids, damage isn't all that great. They recently gave him some buffs, but he's a pale shadow of his former self. Only reason I play him now is to counter Lux's ctrl-4.
Rock MD2 votesZiggs isn't difficult. He's just odd. You're not supposed to hit your enemies you're supposed to zone them and keep them out of fights with your utility. If they walk into your damage and eat it it is 100% their fault.
People don't like that strategy of zoning and pushing though and prefer champs that actively trade.
Also, you could just be good at him since his skill floor is pretty much nonexistent.
RisenDarkKnight2 votesThe hitbox on his Q is just really small. So most people don't want to take the time to master a fairly hard to land skillshot when there are other champions they could learn that are easier to play and have higher win rates.
Because of the nerf to the Q hitbox a while ago, his laning phase has mostly become passive play where you just clear the wave, because it's hard to hit enough Qs to kill someone if they are competent at dodging. Xerath is a rather similar champion, but his Q is much much easier to land. I guess Ziggs is better at pushing towers, but they are both low CC poke mages, but Xerath just seems to have more kill pressure in lane/skirmishes (while Ziggs has better teamfights and sieging).
atomicwit1 votesWith that said, he's still a viable pick even if no one really plays him in Masters+. He's just not top tier. If he had better AP ratios, lower mana costs or was a little faster, he'd get play. He's one moderate buff from being a good pick.
As far as evaluation of a champion's strength.... mistakes are often so large <Masters that results don't really reflect objective reality for balance.
Froggen said (from my memory): "Ziggs sucks and people don't get that it doesn't matter if a mid takes a turret faster. You win games by being better in lane. Every viable mid - even the late game ones like Cassiopeia - is also good in lane."
bad manner kid1 votesEver since S3/S4 Riot has kept Ziggs' pushing power in check and hes got a very conditional escape that makes him die a lot in lane.
He's not in the worst place but other champs simply farm/push harder than him. The delay on his ult has been seen in enough videos for it to never hit anyone ever again T_T
Secret Butt Fun1 votesI think literally the only buff he needs is to shorten the delay on his ult from cast to hit by half and he'll suddenly become amazing. There's nothing wrong with him besides that ult being too slow.
A Jinx with no boots can outrun the entire length of the damn thing
JDB8eoX8x01 votesAs somebody that did well on the lane and had a neutral game until lategame started: Ziggs problem is the intense lack of damage and interaction he has. If you come just a tiny bit too close to an assassin, you're spaghetti. Even worse is, that Ziggs' damage is absolutely unsatisfying, considering the difficulty he puts up with to even deal said damage. I'm not surprised that he has a low winrate, because the few people that are still willing to put up with him are just getting stomped by Beginner-friendly champions like Twisted Fate and Anivia that practically just oneshot you with autos and stuns.
Why should anyone try to be good at the game with Ziggs and fail if they can do at least twice as much damage with a way easier and more relaxed champion?
dunkeroni1 votesBecause if you miss the bouncing bomb, you get reported :P
Jungle Lux God1 votesI won't say anything about Ziggs because I don't play him, but I can offer some reasons why you did so well with him the first games you played as him.
One explanation could be that Ziggs just fits your playstyle really well. It could be that you really like to poke people out and abusing the range advantage Ziggs has over a lot of other champions that even though Ziggs would be a really difficult champion, you might mesh well with is playstyle that you play him well regardless. I remember the same thing happened with me and Aurelion Sol. He's an extremely difficult champion to play, and I was able to effectively contribute to my team even though I got repeatedly counterjungled and counterganked by the enemy Lee Sin in the first game I played him because Aurelion Sol's spacing-oriented gameplay fit well with my spacing-heavy playstyle. These kinds of champions are really good for a player because it makes the champion-learning process significantly easier. The champion already does what you naturally want to do, so all you need to learn are the higher limits of what the character can do (eg. max ranges, the damage you actually deal, etc.) and the build pathings (including runes, masteries, etc.).
The other big explanation could be a concept called "beginner's luck". That concept basically states that the first time you do something, you will likely do it well regardless of good you actually are at that one thing. It could be that you are actually bad at Ziggs and/or that Ziggs is actually a terrible champion, but your beginner's luck gave you a game where you seemingly did well, and skewed your perspective of Ziggs. In this case, you got lucky that you did well, and it likely won't happen again. Or you can work on your Ziggs, win more games, and make me look like a moron. I would much rather you make me look like a moron.
Phil Fly1 votespersonally I just view him as a worse xerath. I'd like to see him fleshed out as someone who applies a lot of pressure to lanes and towers.
Only Play Darius1 votesThey keep him weak because he has the most obnoxious form of waveclear that lets him stall out every game to 45 minutes when he is strong.
atomicwit1 votes[{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5nhQAcbc,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2016-09-27T19:06:53.691+0000)
They keep him weak because he has the most obnoxious form of waveclear that lets him stall out every game to 45 minutes when he is strong.
hasn't been true in ages... waveclear is actually worse than some other mids like Vik and nor can ZIggs stall as much after the new baron - he'd actually be picked if he could
Covert Ops Gnar1 votescuz he's shit
BLACK REALM GOD1 votesdont listen to those nay sayers. ziggs is an objective taker. use your satchels to destroy turrets and your R to steal drakes and barons. hell buy sightstone if you have to and steal jungle camps right out from under your opponents nose.
DunkinNoobs1 votesHis dueling is really, really bad after they made his Q so unreliable. He's an absolutely monstrous team based champ, but really can't do much on his own and can't carry games outright.
Limrick1 votesHe's just a worse Xerath right now.
Ulriah1 votesI played him a few times as well, from what I could tell, the bad thing about him is that he needs a team comp that can work with him, or at least a team that needs to know how Ziggs should be played.
For instance, if you're playing against pretty much any assassin as Ziggs, you won't be able to win your lane, and even if you play safe while having good farm (as you should), that assassin will need to roam in order to get kills, and if your bot lane plays aggressive all the time, ignoring the fact that they will be camped, you can't do anything about it. Since you don't have kill pressure in lane, you won't be able to follow the roam, and since your bot lane dies immediately to the gank, you won't have enough time to push and take the turret.
Another example is if your team has like a Shaco jungle and Tryndamere top, they're split-pushers, they can't help you in a team fight, but Ziggs need a frontline to keep him safe while he's dishing out damage. It can still work since you have good waveclear, but then you rely on your split-pushers being able to push, but if the enemy team has better duelists, well there's pretty much nothing you can do.
Aonraider1 votesWell i dont really feel like ziggs needs a frontline since he gas really good range and a good ult one shots an entire team (unless super tanky) . Also if u have splitpushers u can just ult to help out when they're getting caught