My idea on increasing Karma's viability.

Sassmast3r··2 votes·1,286 views

Hey guys! I'm an unranked Karma main who's currently got 83k mastery points with her (not that that changes much, but in case someone has the audacity to complain that I don't understand a single facet of this champion, I have something to fall back on). I've been considering a couple of ideas for Karma that would make her slightly more interesting, and I came up with one that I really think would make her much more fun to play. Tell me what you guys think!

Let's begin with her ultimate, as this is the core ability that I believe could potentially use changing for enjoyability purposes:

Mantra (R) - Currently, this ultimate has a cooldown of around 40 seconds early game, up to (if I recall correctly) a max of around 16 seconds late game with cool down reduction. What if it had charges, like old Karma? My suggestion is to bring back the charge system, being able to hold a maximum of 2 charges. Before you cry OP, read the rest of this post.

Passive: Currently, this passive makes all damage done to enemies simply reduce the cool down of her ultimate by a certain amount of seconds, depending on which point of the game you are in. If her ultimate was to become a charge system, my suggestion for this passive is to make it like the current one, but instead reduce the cooldown of the upcoming charge. Let's say charges took 40 seconds to achieve each. This would encourage Karma players to make a vital decision - "Do I save my first charge of Mantra and keep poking with Q to try and get my second charge for a team fight where I can be most impactful, or do I start the team fight with my first charge of Mantra and risk losing it?"

Now of course, this would warrant nerfing the damage to her current Q, so as not to literally be executed by mid Karma's inevitably by them spamming two charged Q's at you. However, the whole concept of the charge system involved with Mantra on old Karma was (for me at least) the most fascinating part of her old kit. I believe reintroducing this would most certainly increase her play rate and win rate, as this makes her not only have to actually think in team fights instead of blindly throw a Mantra'd Q at the enemies, but also makes her much more exciting!

P.S. - I would genuinely love it if there were some Rioters to comment on this post. I would love to hear your ideas guys!

23 Comments

CamboBambo2 votes

I Like the idea of bringing charges back! Hopefully Riot sees this.

Dead In Seconds2 votes

I like the idea. I've been in the match vs Karma as Annie on many occasions and it feels like shes just blindly throwing out Q's. I feel this would give her more opportunity to diversify her uses and her kit.

HopFrogger2 votes

I just want her tether range on W buffed. :(

Sassmast3r1 votes

Really? I've never been bothered by this o.o. So do you mean the cast range, or how far away people have to walk for it to be broken? Because (and no I haven't actually looked this up) it always feels like those ranges are completely separate :p.

HopFrogger3 votes

Her W break, to be more exact. If you compare it to LB's tether range....

Death by Glamour1 votes

{quoted}

I just want her tether range on W buffed. :(

For what reason? All you need to do is e or q them and they cant escape

Karbuncle1 votes

Do you just fight immobile champs or something?

Dreadlocks1 votes

Sometimes champs arn't "viable" because another champion is just better at what they do.. I mean, when was the last time you saw Syndra picked instead of Viktor =[

To me Lulu is just a better Karma ..

Sassmast3r1 votes

I guess I'm not understanding the point you are making here. Are you saying that Karma doesn't need any further changes because she doesn't have strengths that are as good as other champions? Because if you ask me, that reason in and of itself necessitates changes. I mean, frankly, Syndra could use a few changes in her kit too.

Dreadlocks1 votes

Riot needs to stop generalizing champs, Give them clear strengths and weaknesses thats what makes champs fun and unique. Idk what Karma's strength is tbh, She seems like a solid poke champ (not great cuz blocked by minions) she seems to have pretty good single target CC, and she has good team fighting capabilities with her shield, MS. I mean to me that says "team fight/skirmish" so w.e strengthens that part of her kit sounds good to me..

Sassmast3r2 votes

Yes exactly! I could not agree with you any more omg! This is why I want charges in combination with her Q nerfs - Her utility in her kit should be focused and her primary role should be support! Give her charges so she can offer more utility (and thus be more helpful and viable), and nerf her Q damage so she's not completely OP mid lane and able to execute everything she touches!

Death by Glamour1 votes

{quoted}

I guess I'm not understanding the point you are making here. Are you saying that Karma doesn't need any further changes because she doesn't have strengths that are as good as other champions? Because if you ask me, that reason in and of itself necessitates changes. I mean, frankly, Syndra could use a few changes in her kit too.

Well other supports simply do a better job at well everything all she has is a raw damage advantage over them except zyra.

RlCARDO MlLOS1 votes

uh

Death by Glamour1 votes

Two things currently hold karma back

Her being reguarded as a support and a troll pick for any other lane and the difficulting on unloading all her damage on a carry.

What you suggest will make it easier to land a double q would be devastating with the damage she could do if she was a solo lane carry.

Your change would cause her to move back to mid and top lane and give her two shots at nuking down a carry but it would likely cause in nerf after neef to her damage.

All old karma needed was a change to w, her shield and q poke/heal was fine idk the did such a dramatic rework of her. Not to mention her old model was far better.

Sassmast3r1 votes

I'll give you the model portion haha. I completely agree; her old model was very beautiful. You see, with the changes I'm proposing in combination to nerfs on her Q, I'm aiming for her primary to be support, not mage. This is why I say to nerf her Q damage - not too much to make her completely worthless mid, not too little to make her completely OP mid. I would much rather see this champion taking advantage of awesome utility than spam Q's, and since this game is full of people who like to play it as a competition and not a game, they would more than likely abuse the Q mechanic if it remained the same. I'm aiming for a champion viable enough in the support role to possibly even see some pro play, while not just completely being abused for her brokenness like lots of current champions. I want her to be like I want Nami to be (even though I see much more Nami in the games available to spectate in the client versus Karma) - Recognized for her capabilities, and not abused.

Maximum Morde1 votes

Voted No because I think this would actually make Karma's play pattern even worse. This wouldn't really make her ult feel any better, and would pretty much suck as they would have to nerf R-Q hard to allow double cast. That would force you down the path of R-Q even harder than it already does just to do damage. It's exceedingly rare that I use my Mantra on anything other than Q ever since they killed off the exploding shield and extra damage on the tether for using Mantra.

You don't wanna be low enough to gain a ton of health from Mantra W in the first place, and the extra root duration, while nice, is unreliable in league of mobility. The Mantra E is extremely situational. If you are trying to disengage a team, a well place Mantra Q can accomplish the same thing by slowing the enemy, and possibly killing them or turning the fight. If you want to engage on an enemy, usually E on your teams tank/engage champion is good enough, and you are better off saving the mantra to contribute more damage. That isn't always the case, but... the times where I am clearly better off using Mantra on E or W are few and far between.

I'd prefer to see changes that make R-W and R-E more useable, rather than nerfing R-Q.

Sassmast3r1 votes

I can definitely see what you are saying, and I thank you for not simply down voting my post, but instead explaining your position to give me an opportunity to respond :).

For me, I do agree that the damage and slow from Mantra'd Q works incredibly well when it comes to disengage, often better times than a Mantra'd E. I think what my goal by creating two charges was to see other combinations that create more exciting gameplay. I don't like the same thing happening each time I play her - Using Mantra'd Q, E-ing the tank and bam done; sometimes you don't even use your W! With two charges, at least those abilities would become considerations don't you think?

How about this for a compromise, and you tell me if this would be better. Instead of nerfing her Q, make it so she can only use one Mantra on her Q, and then afterwards she would have to use another ability instead of another Mantra'd Q? This would of course apply to her other abilities as well. Would this be OP, or UP, or just right? I love your thoughts though and I cannot express how thankful I am for you having stated your opinion, so thank you :)

Maximum Morde2 votes

Even if they prevented her from using a double Mantra on Q, they would have to nerf her afterwards. Being able to pop a mantra twice in a row at their current power would be too much, and it still wouldn't do anything to actually make the other two Mantra's feel like they were worth using. It just feels like she has a problem similar to Kha'Zix and his evolutions. Some of them are just clearly better than the others so you always get the good ones first. Right now, that is Karma's Mantra Q. I really feel like they have to change her Mantra W and Mantra E to make them more worthwhile and maybe that extra power means they have to tone down the Mantra Q a bit, I don't know. For instance, they could have Mantra W change the way the Tether works. Instead of having to maintain the tether and then it pops and they get rooted, they could have Mantra W instantly root the target up to the max duration as long as she stays in Tether range, kinda like channeling a root(the damage would still be over time). Her Mantra E could act like a Banshee's Veil for the primary target. Get rid of the bonus shield strength for that primary target, keep the AOE component for nearby team mates. Just tossing ideas.

But that is all based on my desire for Karma's ult to feel like an Ult and not just a slightly modified ability. Maybe other folks would be fine with it just being an ability modifier. I don't know. I know Riot can do it too, because all of Heimerdingers ults feel impactful.

EcchiOtakuTM1 votes

All you have to do for karma is make her R->Q a passthrough skillshot like anivia's Q

MunchCrunchLunch1 votes

how is karma not viable? shes a great champ to have on the team.

jmonster1291 votes

id say rather than give her a second charge of mantra, just give her E a way to reduce cooldown on mantra like the rest of her abilities don't make her have charges, just have her play style revolve around constantly lowering her mantra cooldown so it can be up again i made a post about how her shields should give cooldown the first time they are attacked http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/4AOTKiAp-karmas-passive-should-have-an-interaction-with-her-e

i just think adding charges would be too much of a balancing act for the rest of her kit and Riot really isn't gonna take the time to do that

Beldair1 votes

I use all of her abilities. I'll even Mantra my E and use that boost for my allies to engage or as a team escape while i stay back a bit and continuously fire a Q every now and then. And her W I'll use to root an enemy to give the adc a free target.

SirShaggy1 votes

Nope. I didn't like a lot of things with the Karma rework but they got her fast-recharging yet impactful ultimate down. It's more interactive without the charge system and if they nerfed her ultimate to hold charges it wouldn't feel like an ult anymore.

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