Boards›Gameplay

Energy TALON, the kamikaze assassin?

K54··2 votes·1,441 views

1st off, he fits into the same assassin category as Katarina, Zed and Akali, who are all energy champions, yet he has a small mana pool of 330, letting him cast his poke 5 times, before he's bullied out of lane because he's out of mana.

He's too squishy to go head to head with fighters (the meta top lane), and now without his silence, he doesn't really get far against mid lane champs early phase.

The only real success I see with Talon now is in jungling and of course he needs the blue buff to do it.

Problem is, even when I'm playing "smart" against mid lane champions, by the time I poke them down with my W enough to dive in with my E, he doesn't have enough mana left to combo into ult. I shouldn't have to waste gold on mana pots cause he can't cast his W more than 5 times before his mana pool is drained.

Don't get me wrong, late game Talon is a monster! I destroy whole teams caught by my W and E if they're close enough to the target I proc Q > E > W > R.

I understand that as an assassin you have to be able to commit, but how does that apply to the other assassins?

Akali has her smoke cloud to get away. Lee Sin has his dash/shield/lifesteal. Zed has two clones to fall back to. Katarina has teleport. Fizz has untargetable jump. Kass has rift walk. LeBlanc has double flash (triple flash if you actually take the flash summoner spell). Kha'zix has leap and dual/triple invisibility with increased movement speed. Master Yi has extreme damage reduction, immunity to CC and psycho speed boost to run in, kill and run away. Nidalee can leap away with increased movement speed. Nocturne can block with shield, cast dusk trail for escaping, and fear the biggest threat to him after his assassination. Shaco can cloak with increased movement speed. Evelynn breaks free of CC and gets high speed getaway. Rengar's battle roar gives him a large amount of armor and magic resist, which is going to be at full ferocity cause he's going to use hit ult to find the squishy ADC or enemy assassin which will be enough to let him make it back to his team in a team fight.

That leaves us with Talon. Who's only escape option is his R, so hopefully he kills his target on the outgoing blades, since he's going to escape before they return to him. No health sustain, no bonus armor or magic resist, no mobility move to escape, no speed burst, no dash, no way to fight CC, no smoke cloud or blind, no shield, no damage reduction, NO SILENCE and to add insult to injury... A SMALL MANA POOL

At the very least you can make him an energy champion.

14 Comments

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

id rather say to make him manaless and give his rake ammo system this way riot can give it big enough cooldown and gates his manaless vaweclear

ofc after nerfing damage because he can use it couple times in assasination

SouL1ess1 votes

What's the point of making him manaless if you are just going to take away his advantage anyways?

Talon doesn't need to be manaless or energy-based in the first place. Don't put something on him that he doesn't need, then destroy what he is supposed to do.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

his advantage is that he isnt gated by mana but he doesnt need to hit any harder than he does and he shouldnt be able to jus clear any vave he finds

SouL1ess1 votes

his advantage is that he isnt gated by mana

He isn't gated by mana now.

Talon has great mana-to-damage ratios rivaling that of Karma and for trading properly, he can push the enemy laner out easily.

Unless you rake EVERY wave you find immediately, Talon has no mana issues.

Again, you are putting something on Talon that he doesn't need, then nerfing his damage and potentially waveclear just because, well, he belongs in the manaless category. I rather have my trade tool up in lane every 10 seconds than only able trade properly every 24 seconds (for full charges), if that is the "big enough CD" you are thinking of.

Knight SoIaire 1 votes

Unless you rake EVERY wave you find immediately, Talon has no mana issues.

lets agree to disagree

SEKAI1 votes

same assassin category as Katarina, Zed and Akali, who are all energy champions,

Umm no, Kat is cdr based with no resource like Garen.

K541 votes

{quoted}

Umm no, Kat is cdr based with no resource like Garen.

That even further proves my point. Kat is strictly reliant on CD, while poor Talon is stuck with a maximum mana pool of 1047. His max ability mana cost are 60, 80, 55 and 100, which add up to 295. That means you can do your full combo 2 times realistic, because you're probably going to be using other abilities between ult CD.

TrentBatNA1 votes

Katarina is not an energy character.

First of all, energy is an ionian-themed spell cost, for example Akali and Shen are both Ionian, and uses energy.

One thing about Talon is that he has some mana issues early-game, which is the only reason he isn't overpowered.

Talon is useless when behind, though he stomps and snowballs extremely well, and he doesn't need an escape.

The point of playing Talon is kill or be killed, and you must kill someone and it's over, or you get killed.

tl;dr: Talon is balanced, it's just that the other assasins are OP. No need to buff Talon.

K541 votes

{quoted}

Katarina is not an energy character.

First of all, energy is an ionian-themed spell cost, for example Akali and Shen are both Ionian, and uses energy.

One thing about Talon is that he has some mana issues early-game, which is the only reason he isn't overpowered.

Talon is useless when behind, though he stomps and snowballs extremely well, and he doesn't need an escape.

The point of playing Talon is kill or be killed, and you must kill someone and it's over, or you get killed.

tl;dr: Talon is balanced, it's just that the other assasins are OP. No need to buff Talon.

What I was saying for the other champions escape tools, I meant in team fights. Normally assassins should be aiming for the adc or mage, who'll be protected by any combination of a support, a tank, a fighter/bruiser, adc/mage (whichever one you're not targerting. The other enemy assassin should be going for your adc/mage. With that said, the other assassins can get the job done behind enemy lines and have a chance to escape. With Talon, your only chance of escaping is flashing away or you're stuck by 4 enemy champions.

Markus Vakarian1 votes

Considering that Zed > Talon and Zed has energy..i think Talon must have energy too OR (if you prefer) Zed should have mana

But i don't think that Talon's problem is mana,unless you have to use W very often

I agree about escape,maybe R with half CD (and Half damage) could be good for him he should be able to kill squishy enemies to using ulti and use that only to escape or reposition

Troy2426211 votes

If I were going to buff Talon, I'd be targeting his abysmal early game, but that's just me. I don't play Talon mid lane, though, so take my comment with a grain of salt.

Continuing the trend of comparing him to Zed, Talon lacks a silence. The fact they removed that makes him even more comparable to Zed. All he has now is damage and a slow. Sound familiar? This being the case, let's take a look at the assassin checklist.

Zed is winning out in most categories. Zed has better aggressive and defensive mobility, whereas Talon's Cutthroat is offensive and only situationally can it be used to make a crafty escape. He otherwise must use his ultimate. Zed's burst damage is going to be higher to a single target, but Talon's is quicker to deliver and has some AoE collateral damage. Neither one has much CC apart from short-lived slows. Zed is manaless and farms exceptionally well, giving a safety net on top of his disgustingly high mobility. Talon has fear of being ganked due to low defensive mobility, and isn't as good at farming compared to Zed. Lastly, the damage boosts. Talon has Mercy and Cutthroat, Zed has his shadow, his ultimate and Living Shadow. It should be obvious how much superior Zed's steroids are here. Even while behind, the raw stats he gets from leveling up on top of his farming ability on top of his safety means he just isn't going to be shut down. Talon on the other hand ONLY offers damage now, and while he's good at it, if he's behind, he has little TO offer.

Time had it, Talon's reason to exist was because he had something Zed didn't that gave him a specialty that Zed doesn't outclass him at. He was a Hell of an anti-mage. Now? He's no better at that then Zed is. In fact, Zed is better at dodging skillshots. Now, I'd contest that Zed DOES outclass Talon.

So both have the same role now. Zed, however, has so many safety nets that I cringe whenever I hear Zed is "Hard to play," when he isn't. He's hard to master. "Hard to play," implies it's hard to pick up and use, which relates to skill floor. His skill floor barely even exists to anyone familiar with AD assassins.

SouL1ess1 votes

I proc Q > E > W > R.

You can't be serious.

Also, I happen to prefer mana over energy on Talon. He doesn't run OOM trying to harass unless you are against Zed. Meanwhile, Energy is an exasperating resource whenever teamfight rolls around, because you do nothing otherwise.

Time had it, Talon's reason to exist was because he had something Zed didn't that gave him a specialty that Zed doesn't outclass him at.

Exactly.

Diamonesd1 votes

You see the reason in your post. The only reason talon is balanced: Mana. If zed had Mana, he would be balanced. Same for all non mana champions.

Nuttynutdude1 votes

if he was an energy, he would spam his spells and dominate every mid laner in the game. his short cooldowns and high damage will make him too op. he would have no consequence on missing his rake, which does insane damage, so he could spam his cc and whittle down a champion, then burst without even using his ult. plus late game energy talon will take down a whole minion wave in 10 seconds. 2 rakes

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by K54

Just a little friendly advice to the bronzies to increase win %
Gameplay9 comments
9
votes
FINALLY HAD AN ADC THAT LISTENED TO ME!
Gameplay9 comments
6
votes
Dear Bronze 5 and Diamond 1 players
Gameplay14 comments
6
votes
RIOT's system
Player Behavior35 comments
6
votes
How I Changed My Toxic Behavior
Player Behavior14 comments
6
votes
Nasus needs change
Gameplay14 comments
5
votes