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Fizz is singlehandedly the most infuriating champion in this game. He is the definition of toxic.

Cheesybox··136 votes·8,731 views

Even Fizz players know it. That's why every Fizz will spam /laugh when they get away from you blowing flash+ignite+ults+everything to kill him. People HATE this champion. They want to see him tortured. Not even Based Satan Teemo gets this kind of rage. That's why people want him gutted. Not just nerfed, GUTTED. They want him deleted in his current form.

So seriously, why is he allowed to exist like this? His "balance" is still up for debate, but can Riot PLEASE make him less of a rage-inducing bastard?

169 Comments

KOSHER TACO24 votes

Being able to dodge 5 people diving him and then one shotting anyone he pleases is perfectly reasonable.

Fizz Nice ult u got there hecarim, even though the AoE is wider than the distance I can playful trickster away, you just arent fabulous to touch me. MasterYi wtf how did you kill me with your ult while in mid alpha strike, hecarim? Fizz maybe if you mastered something other than sucking

Cheesybox19 votes

I'm fully aware he does. He's not stupid OP, he's just absolutely maddening to play against. His ultra-low CD untargetability can be played around, it's just really really hard to do, and if you make the slightest mistake (miss a CC when he lands for example) you die. He's so forgiving of the person playing him and incredibly UNforgiving to play against

Rhlax2 votes

He's so forgiving of the person playing him and incredibly UNforgiving to play against

If Fizz lands ult, you are dead. I have never liked Fizz's ult design.

Earl Eulrich7 votes

Fizz has very clear weaknesses, there´s nothing wrong with that Champion.

Junkο9 votes

What weakness? You can kill him 5 times early game if you want to but as soon as he gets 1 kill he will snowball out of control, if you mean him at least. I literally just bought Fizz and went from Silver 3 to Silver 1 in a day.

For Carthage11 votes

You're confusing "low tier stomp" with "overpowered".

Same mistake people made with Fiora. Then Riot nerfed her AoE and now she's even less viable out of the low tiers because Thornmail makes her a chuckle****.

Note: I tried like several times to make the curse filter cover the f-word just for the sake of decency. Really don't want to have to censor my own bloody self again. I look right silly.

Silmaril11 votes

[{quoted}](name=For Carthage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5FFNtWyX,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2014-12-14T14:40:39.318+0000) You're confusing "low tier stomp" with "overpowered".

Same mistake people made with Fiora. Then Riot nerfed her AoE and now she's even less viable out of the low tiers because Thornmail makes her a chuckle****.

Note: I tried like several times to make the curse filter cover the f-word just for the sake of decency. Really don't want to have to censor my own bloody self again. I look right silly.

Nobody said he was overpowered. I see Fizz lose more often than I see him win, most people in low ELO actually suck with him pretty bad, and waste their E like an idiot.

Then I face a good Fizz, and it's literally the only thing in the game that makes me want to just straight up uninstall.

For Carthage6 votes

Well, if you'd read Rainbowe's post, accusing a champ of having no weakness tends to imply being overpowered.

I'm pointing out he isn't, and he really does have weaknesses, including and not limited to: early MR; hard CC that lasts more than 1.5 seconds when you're dueling him, .5 when you're with a group (snares have more impact on him than most other champs, see "Riven" for similar issues); sustained burst or more burst than he has (see "Akali" for "champs that eat Fizz like a Japanese cookout"); Soraka in order to put her E under him when he Zhonya's (and then subsequently listen to the Fizz curse that coldhearted bitch out). All valid weaknesses/counters, all stupidly effective.

Chaotic Reks4 votes

MEANWHILE Yorick

Earl Eulrich4 votes

he´s really really squishy, his engage range with q is fairly low, the q is 100%predictable and doesn´t render him immune to CC - and if he got´s knocked out of it by a well playing support he´ll just die without achieving even the tiniest bit every clash. He is a strong roamer/duelist due to his burst and mobility, really helping out when you have the numbers advantage anyway - but his teamfighting never gets beyond good, as most of his impact is single-target, dodgeable or otherwise counterable. So he´s a strong pick for SoloQ, but he´s very far from being oppressive or "OP".

And if you need an easy counter to lane against him...try an AD-Bruiser, they all slap him without any effort (or Lissandra/Ryze...instant CC completely wrecks him).

Waawee7 votes

his q + w + lichbane combo easily chunks a squishy for more than 1500 hp late game. It's honestly stupid and the damage is unavoidable. Like you can cc him mid dash and the damage still goes through. Like wth...

manbearswine7 votes

A fizz once called my soraka cancer,In fact,I have a framed printscreen on my wall as proof.

I Main Swain6 votes

I think that fizz would be totally balanced if they slightly lowered his e scaling and increased his cooldowns. he is way too forgiving as is, especially with his e

Joe Dredd6 votes

Yea, I defend Lee and Yasuo because they may have kits you don't enjoy playing against but aren't good either way, but fuck Fizz, regardless of his state of balance.

ImHerVoice6 votes

fizz E now has a 15 second cooldown at all ranks. there balanced.

Cale0175 votes

Honestly, I will always believe Yi is the most infuriating champion just because of how much reward you get with him for how little risk there is to play him.

"BUT HIS EARLY GAME SUCKS"

Too bad playing him in the jungle eliminates having to handle his pesky early game in lane.

"BUT HARD CC"

Affects almost everyone in the same way, and isn't a specific weakness he carries to balance out his otherwise overwhelming damage potential.

"BUT THORNMAIL"

Yi's true damage gives approximately zero fucks and will let him kill you long before your Thornmail kills him. Unless you're Rammus.

"BUT NO UTILITY"

Which he doesn't need when a gank from him comes laden with so much damage that either he's going to get the kill and his laners will get the assist, or his laners will get the kill and he'll get the assist. Slows and stuns don't snowball a lane, kills and assists do. And there's no better utility in the game than removing someone from being able to play it for 30-60 seconds at a time.

Kuroi8625 votes

Too bad playing him in the jungle eliminates having to handle his pesky early game in lane.

Amumu Fiddlesticks JarvanIV Khazix LeeSin Malphite Maokai Nocturne Nunu Olaf Pantheon Rammus RekSai Rengar Shyvana Skarner Udyr Volibear Warwick MonkeyKing XinZhao

Sooko5 votes

LeeSin Volibear

But I like Voli and Lee laning :c

Cale0171 votes

Yes, what a nice list of champions. Do you have a point to go with this?

Kuroi863 votes

Champs that are strong early while still viable in the jungle. If You play ANY of these champs against a Yi jungle and never gank his jungle, never steal his camps, do nothing to make his life a living hell, then you deserve to get rolled for handing him the game.

Cale0173 votes

Half of your list are tanks, and tanks are the weakest role in the jungle right now.

Nocturne isn't strong early. Until he has a few points in his Q and his ult up his ganks are weak, and his damage in 1v1s is meh at best. The only hope Nocturne has of winning against a Yi is if he can get Yi to Q into his spellshield. A smart Yi will enter the duel with the Q, or just save it for after Nocturne has used his shield, in which case Yi beats Nocturne.

Volibear isn't strong early. He requires a significant health investment to make his execute deal any considerable damage, and the only way to make him strong early when it comes to dueling is to give up early health in favor of a Devourer's enchant to supplement his auto attack damage. But given that he lacks significant sustain in the jungle outside of his passive, attempting to counter jungle a Yi with him is asking for trouble because a Yi, even pre 6, would have no issues tearing a half health Volibear to pieces. And if he builds a Devourer instead of Juggernaut, Yi can shred him from full health without much more trouble. Until he hits level 6, Volibear's single target damage is meh at best. So if you're level 6, so is Yi. Skipped his touchy early game.

Amumu certainly isn't strong early in dueling situations. He lacks mana to keep his tears up or spam his tantrum, and he isn't doing a whole lot of damage with them early on in the first place. By the time Amumu's in a position to actually be a threat 1v1, you're in the mid game.

Jarvan isn't going to keep up with a fleeing Yi, even popping his slow on him, and he has no way to trap him pre6 to keep him within range for a beating. Even then, Yi's Q is up faster than Jarvan's spear, so you aren't going to win that trade either.

Kha'Zix isn't strong in 1v1 situation until after he has a few more points in his Q, in which time Yi's been running around in his own jungle maxing his Q, which deals more damage and is up not quite as much as Kha's but still insanely fast, and has also been clearing his jungle quicker so he has a gold and level advantage. In fact, in order to beat out a Yi early on, a Kha'Zix has to sacrifice early ganking potential by evolving his Q first at level 6. Which means Yi is at level 6 as well, which once more means that Yi has been able to farm to 6, proving my point.

Lee Sin I'll give you. The extra durability, movement options, and the % health execute will let him beat out a Yi if the Yi isn't smart enough to tank most of Lee Sin's burst with meditate.

Mantheon might defeat a Yi, but only if he gets the drop on him. And even then, Yi can probably still run away or vision hop over a wall with a ward and a Q to a minion camp. But yeah, the Speedo'd Wonder could probably pull it off.

Rammus isn't going to counter jungle a Yi successfully. His own clear is abysmal during the early game, and he is not going to deal enough damage, nor mitigate enough damage, from Yi's attacks to let him survive. Even if you rush a Thornmail, Yi's true damage doesn't care about your armor and he's going to be dealing more damage to you than you can do back to him even with your W active. Rammus doesn't gain the potential to counterjungle until after maxing E, putting points into W, and building at least a Sunfire Cape on top of Juggernaut. The early phase of the game is over, Yi is fine.

Rengar? You pop your initial burst on him, which is pretty weak all things considered early on before building Warrior or Devourer, and then he just hits meditate while you keep trying to auto attack, and once meditate is down his Q and his E are back up. You lose.

Rek'Sai's damage early is terrible. She needs Devourer's before her damage can even begin to matter, and Hydra before she can safely start trying to 1v1 people. By which point, again, Yi is no longer in his early game either. My point once again proven.

Shyvana? Quite possibly. If Yi is low, and if he doesn't meditate through the duration of your W to reduce how much damage you can deal to him after it's finished.

Skarner gets chopped to pieces. Don't get me wrong, I love Skarner and all, but he has to powerfarm for a Devourer's before he can even try to be relevant, and his ganks are weak pre 6 because his passive stun is meh at best early on. Once again, Yi safely emerges from the early game phase.

Udyr? Maybe, depending on your skill order. Chances are you have to reduce your damage output by leveling turtle form first, or gamble on increasing damage output by leveling tiger form first. In either case, you're taking a risk even trying.

Warwick isn't counterjungling Yi. Yi is counterjungling Warwick.

Wukong might be able to do something, if you can get him to waste his Q on the clone. But once your E Q combo is blown, and his armor returns to normal while your attack speed drops, Yi takes the win because his autos are hitting faster, and every fifth is hitting harder. Wukong needs his ult to put the finishing touches on Yi, meaning that once again Yi survives pre6 without an issue.

Xin Xiao tries to go ham on Yi. Yi presses W. Xin wastes his burst, Yi returns the favor in spades. Until Xin has his ult, his single target burst isn't high enough to counter how much Yi just flat doesn't care.

None of the champions that you've listed off can shut a Yi down in the early game. He simply deals too much damage through his Q, E, passive, and natural attack speed, reduces too much through his W, for him to be stopped by any one champion specifically in the early game race for 6. And keep in mind that during the time you're wasting traipsing around his jungle trying to find camps that he hasn't already cleared yet, or to try and find him, you aren't farming while he still is. So the more you try to counterjungle someone who's clear speeds are pretty high, the more advantage you're giving him in gold and xp because you aren't getting any.

My point stands. By taking Yi into the jungle, he doesn't have to worry about his early game, and by trying to 1v1 him if you do manage to catch him, he's more than likely going to take the kill, taunt on your body, and spam "ez" in the all chat.

Kuroi866 votes

You vastly overestimate Yi' early game. Any one of those champs can force Yi out of his jungle and proceed to take camps. If Yi wants to try and reclaim his jungle, he NEEDS his laners to help him, in which case they lose out on exp and gold.

Yi, easy, man you don't know what game you're playing.

Mecha MaIphite35 votes

Hard CC isn't the same for everyone. If you blow your CC on a Kat, you just saved your team. If you blow it on a Nautilus, you are an idiot.

Cale0171 votes

Which doesn't change that he still isn't intrinsically weak to it any more than any other assassin type character.

Mecha MaIphite1 votes

Think of hard CC as chemotherapy.

Do you use it on the cancer patient, or do you use it on someone who's perfectly healthy? Nautilus (and a lot of other tanks) does so little damage it's like he's CC'd anyways after he uses his combo, whereas someone like Kat or Yi actually need to be controlled.

Cale0171 votes

I'm aware that there are priority targets for CC in a game. But my point here is that it doesn't matter who is getting stunned, the effect is the same. The consequences may vary (i.e. you stun a Kat and she loses her combo, stun a Yi and he gets eaten alive, stun a Nautilus and he just waits until it's over and keeps on trudging) but what is taking place mechanically is no different for anyone who gets hit.

A two second stun that hits a Yi lasts the exact same amount of time as a two second stun that hits a Nautilus. Why? Because the stun doesn't care who it's hitting. It affects everyone the same way.

ninjacapo11 votes

ALWAYS SLOW NAUTILUS HIS MOVESPEED TOO STRONK

Knight SoIaire 2 votes

yi and garen are noob frienndly champs which give the same rewards for less skill but they arent the masters of flashines (alpha strike disagrees but its not my fault)

while fizz is a guy who needs to be bullied to shut him down but he can bully you himself, he has realy big windows iin which you can hit him but it too slippery to actualy get to him

basicaly whatever is his weakness its realy hard to exploit it and fizz gets the upper hand in most games by default hence the rage storm

while yi can be sometimes pwned early (and his kit doesnt correct his mistakes like fizz's can)

Cale0173 votes

Garen can't walk out of a jungle at level 6 and R Q E a double kill to get lanes snowballing.

redniwediS12 votes

No, he walks out of the jungle and Q E Rs.

Alëk2 votes

{quoted} Honestly, I will always believe Yi is the most infuriating champion just because of how much reward you get with him for how little risk there is to play him.

"BUT HIS EARLY GAME SUCKS"

Too bad playing him in the jungle eliminates having to handle his pesky early game in lane.

"BUT HARD CC"

Affects almost everyone in the same way, and isn't a specific weakness he carries to balance out his otherwise overwhelming damage potential.

"BUT THORNMAIL"

Yi's true damage gives approximately zero fucks and will let him kill you long before your Thornmail kills him. Unless you're Rammus.

"BUT NO UTILITY"

Which he doesn't need when a gank from him comes laden with so much damage that either he's going to get the kill and his laners will get the assist, or his laners will get the kill and he'll get the assist. Slows and stuns don't snowball a lane, kills and assists do. And there's no better utility in the game than removing someone from being able to play it for 30-60 seconds at a time.

Yi is quite literally the easiest champion in the game to counter jungle.

Cale0171 votes

Until he walks around the corner, sees you at his Krugs, and Q Es you to shred you to pieces.

Alëk1 votes

{quoted} Until he walks around the corner, sees you at his Krugs, and Q Es you to shred you to pieces.

you do realize im talking about early game right. The part about him having a terrible early game. you said that his bad early game is mitigated by being in the jungle. However, counter-jungling takes complete control. Anyone with stronger early game damage easily demolishes him. Vi, Lee, and Panth (meta junglers) can easily counter jungle him and kill him. Hell, even Udyr can do it easily.

Cale0171 votes

Yes, his early game in lane is awful. But even if you try to invade his jungle, he can use the fact that you're at low health from fighting his camps to take you down all the same. Usually while his Q finishes off the camp anyways.

Alëk1 votes

{quoted} Yes, his early game in lane is awful. But even if you try to invade his jungle, he can use the fact that you're at low health from fighting his camps to take you down all the same. Usually while his Q finishes off the camp anyways.

do you actually expect him to find you EVERY time you counter jungle? The idea of counter jungling is to take down camps without finding the jungler. The reason it's so easy to take his camps is because of his incredibly slow clear early game and the fact that he needs to back quickly.

Cale0171 votes

That's usually what happens to me when I try to counterjungle. I run smack into the enemy jungler.

And the idea is to take their camps, yes, but he can clear camps fast enough that you're more than likely wasting your time trying to go into the jungle to find any that he hasn't cleared yet, meanwhile he's continuing on his merry way gaining gold and xp while you're hunting and hoping. And chances are, if you find a camp that's either respawning or hasn't been killed yet, he's about to arrive there to take it as well, because his other camps are all already cleared.

Alëk5 votes

{quoted} That's usually what happens to me when I try to counterjungle. I run smack into the enemy jungler.

And the idea is to take their camps, yes, but he can clear camps fast enough that you're more than likely wasting your time trying to go into the jungle to find any that he hasn't cleared yet, meanwhile he's continuing on his merry way gaining gold and xp while you're hunting and hoping. And chances are, if you find a camp that's either respawning or hasn't been killed yet, he's about to arrive there to take it as well, because his other camps are all already cleared.

sorry to say this, but if u run into the enemy jungler when you try to counterjungle then you're just not very good at counterjungling. It's becoming even more clear to me that you don't understand the concept of counterjungling or how to to do it at all. Counter-jungling is all about understanding the respawn times of camps, and what buffs the enemy jungler is going to start. For example, in the new jungle you can almost always except Yi to go Krugs because of how good the buff is on him. Because of this he will probably try for red immediately after. If I was to try and counterjungle I would ward his blue take krugs or toad to get to lvl 2 and immediately go for his blue. This allows a pretty easy buff steal because of how long it takes Yi to take red without a smite.

Also, even if Yi were to catch you at his blue, or red in some circumstances, pre-6 he has to reliable chasing ability as Alpha strike just isn't low cooldown enough yet. Lee, Vi, and Shaco are all good counterjunglers. Yi has no chance against champs like them.

Cale0171 votes

Yes, because you can control when and where the enemy jungler is, right? It's not almost entirely based on chance from which buff they decided to start with, whether or not they wanted a leashless start, whether they tried to go somewhere to wait for an early gank, or how often they've been backing right? Because you can control where the enemy jungler is in their jungle, right? Where you expect someone to be does not equate to where they will actually be. If I were playing Yi, for instance, I'd start at the blue buff for the extra mana and ability to spam my Q and E harder for jungle clear. What happens in that instance? You can paint it up to be prediction all you want, but what it comes down to is you rolling the dice and betting on a champion being where you hope they are, and it's just as easy to get that chance wrong as it is to get it right.

He doesn't need chasing ability when he can catch you at low enough health to finish you off while you're stuck in the middle of a group of monsters taking aggro from them while he Qs to you and Es your health away.

Alëk3 votes

{quoted} Yes, because you can control when and where the enemy jungler is, right? It's not almost entirely based on chance from which buff they decided to start with, whether or not they wanted a leashless start, whether they tried to go somewhere to wait for an early gank, or how often they've been backing right? Because you can control where the enemy jungler is in their jungle, right? Where you expect someone to be does not equate to where they will actually be. If I were playing Yi, for instance, I'd start at the blue buff for the extra mana and ability to spam my Q and E harder for jungle clear. What happens in that instance? You can paint it up to be prediction all you want, but what it comes down to is you rolling the dice and betting on a champion being where you hope they are, and it's just as easy to get that chance wrong as it is to get it right.

He doesn't need chasing ability when he can catch you at low enough health to finish you off while you're stuck in the middle of a group of monsters taking aggro from them while he Qs to you and Es your health away.

lol why are you so insistent on saying that Yi is stronger than champions who have been a problem for a very long time? And no there is not just an equal chance of being caught by the enemy jungler. If you understand jungle paths and mechanics the majority of the time an AS jungler will start krugs because of the strong buff it gives. If counterjungling was that risky then noone would do it because 50% of the time it would be unsuccessful. Also there is this thing known as warding as a stated earlier. If you ward the buffs you can tell the right time to counterjungle and the wrong times. And when playing some champions your health is not always low due to clearing jungle monsters. If you have trailblazers smite on a jungler with good sustain often times he doesn't have to worry about losing a lot of health.

It's been understood for a long time that handling Yi is incredibly easy. If he were so strong than he would be played in high elo. Only in low elo is he such a problem due to the fact that noone knows how to focus him. Because of how squishy he is one hard CC is all it takes to destroy him. If that weren't true you would see him in MANY pro and high elo games.

Cale0172 votes

Yi isn't stronger in the late game. But the advantages he gives in the mid game are my issue with him, because he passes those advantages on to the rest of his team when they get fed just from him being nearby.

But you cannot guarantee. In general, I'll usually start blue myself when I'm jungling regardless of who I'm playing, because even if they're manaless the CDR still helps my initial clear time by letting me use more abilities over the course of my first clear. You cannot 100% certain say where any jungler is going to start, because you do not see where they are or where their teammates are going. You have to guess, and you have to hope you guess right.

You aren't going to be buying wards in the early game outside of your initial trinket. So you aren't going to get anywhere near the sort of coverage that you're trying to make it seem like before either of you hit level 6 and the ganks start raining down from above. And the time it takes you to go to his jungle, find that he's already cleared a camp, and leave a ward in a critical location before going back to your own jungle is more time that you aren't making money or gaining a level that he is.

You really aren't paying attention. I'm talking about your initial clears. Before you've gone back for Pathfinder, or Stalker, or whatever item you're buying. Before you've had the time to buy wards, or to even wander into his jungle to place them.

Continuously backing for wards and going into his jungle hoping to find his camps will only put you behind, and then the issue becomes that the enemy jungler already has an enchant when you're no more than a third of the way to building your own. You've invested so much time into roaming his jungle, and so much gold into getting ward coverage, during the early stages of the game that you're now behind on your build, behind by a level or two, and behind in farm.

The reason that Yi isn't played in high elo games very much is because his late game contributions to a team are complete and utter shit. He's just damage, that's it, and he doesn't generally do well when he has to dive into 5 people to do it. But in most cases a Yi is going hyper carry by the mid game, much less letting a match last to the end game. And even if it does, his teammates are so fed off of assists from his 20 to nothing killing spree that even as he falls off they start hitting their stride.

Get it now?

Counterjungling remains and will always be half a guessing game.

My issue with Yi isn't his late game, or even his middle game, as a solo champion. It's that a Yi can farm with relatively safety for a Devourer's, R out of river and Q E a double bottom lane without it requiring any effort at all.

My issue with Yi is that there is no risk involved with the sheer amount of reward you get for playing him no matter how hard he falls off in the late game, or how susceptible to hard CC he is. Especially when hard CC is a common denominator for almost all champs, so that shouldn't be stated as a weakness that he specifically carries. Yi pays for all of his power with almost no compensation aside from being squishy, which only makes him an assassin. But getting kills with him takes almost zero positioning knowledge, and even if they survive your initial burst chances are your auto attacks are enough to kill them, if not you can just meditate until your Q comes back a few moments later.

His playstyle is too simple. It's too straightforwards. And because of that it's stupidly effective. There is no counterplay to a Yi who runs at you for a gank. Most top laners lack hard CC, the only ADCs who have any are notoriously touchy to try and hit it with for full effect, which means that the only members of a team that might be able to stop them are the friendly jungler, possibly the support, and hopefully the midlaner. Not to mention that blowing all your hard CC on a Yi during a gank does nothing to stop the other laners that are bearing down on you as well. He's such a high priority target for CC that you choose between stopping him and taking fire from the enemy laner, or stopping the enemy laner and giving yourself over to Yi.

It's cancerous. He requires no skill, and should not have the sort of potential that he carries no matter how little utility he's bringing when it's easier to get multi kills with Yi than with Katarina.

Alëk3 votes

{quoted} Yi isn't stronger in the late game. But the advantages he gives in the mid game are my issue with him, because he passes those advantages on to the rest of his team when they get fed just from him being nearby.

But you cannot guarantee. In general, I'll usually start blue myself when I'm jungling regardless of who I'm playing, because even if they're manaless the CDR still helps my initial clear time by letting me use more abilities over the course of my first clear. You cannot 100% certain say where any jungler is going to start, because you do not see where they are or where their teammates are going. You have to guess, and you have to hope you guess right.

You aren't going to be buying wards in the early game outside of your initial trinket. So you aren't going to get anywhere near the sort of coverage that you're trying to make it seem like before either of you hit level 6 and the ganks start raining down from above. And the time it takes you to go to his jungle, find that he's already cleared a camp, and leave a ward in a critical location before going back to your own jungle is more time that you aren't making money or gaining a level that he is.

You really aren't paying attention. I'm talking about your initial clears. Before you've gone back for Pathfinder, or Stalker, or whatever item you're buying. Before you've had the time to buy wards, or to even wander into his jungle to place them.

Continuously backing for wards and going into his jungle hoping to find his camps will only put you behind, and then the issue becomes that the enemy jungler already has an enchant when you're no more than a third of the way to building your own. You've invested so much time into roaming his jungle, and so much gold into getting ward coverage, during the early stages of the game that you're now behind on your build, behind by a level or two, and behind in farm.

The reason that Yi isn't played in high elo games very much is because his late game contributions to a team are complete and utter shit. He's just damage, that's it, and he doesn't generally do well when he has to dive into 5 people to do it. But in most cases a Yi is going hyper carry by the mid game, much less letting a match last to the end game. And even if it does, his teammates are so fed off of assists from his 20 to nothing killing spree that even as he falls off they start hitting their stride.

Get it now?

Counterjungling remains and will always be half a guessing game.

My issue with Yi isn't his late game, or even his middle game, as a solo champion. It's that a Yi can farm with relatively safety for a Devourer's, R out of river and Q E a double bottom lane without it requiring any effort at all.

My issue with Yi is that there is no risk involved with the sheer amount of reward you get for playing him no matter how hard he falls off in the late game, or how susceptible to hard CC he is. Especially when hard CC is a common denominator for almost all champs, so that shouldn't be stated as a weakness that he specifically carries. Yi pays for all of his power with almost no compensation aside from being squishy, which only makes him an assassin. But getting kills with him takes almost zero positioning knowledge, and even if they survive your initial burst chances are your auto attacks are enough to kill them, if not you can just meditate until your Q comes back a few moments later.

His playstyle is too simple. It's too straightforwards. And because of that it's stupidly effective. There is no counterplay to a Yi who runs at you for a gank. Most top laners lack hard CC, the only ADCs who have any are notoriously touchy to try and hit it with for full effect, which means that the only members of a team that might be able to stop them are the friendly jungler, possibly the support, and hopefully the midlaner. Not to mention that blowing all your hard CC on a Yi during a gank does nothing to stop the other laners that are bearing down on you as well. He's such a high priority target for CC that you choose between stopping him and taking fire from the enemy laner, or stopping the enemy laner and giving yourself over to Yi.

It's cancerous. He requires no skill, and should not have the sort of potential that he carries no matter how little utility he's bringing when it's easier to get multi kills with Yi than with Katarina.

I'm not gonna try to read this Wall of China. But from what I gather you think that Yi is toxic because he requires no amount of skill, to deal massive amounts of damage. Yi is not important right now because he is a noob champion. Until the effect he has hits the high level scene, he won't ever truly be addressed. He's too easy to handle in any other game. We are talking about champions that are strong at almost all levels of play. Their playstyles effect everyone. Their kits are TRULY problematic. As far as anyone is concerned, Yi is a roflstomp noob level champion that does not need changes because he doesn't affect anyone except those noob level players. There are numerous ways to stop him and he's meant as a hump for low level players to get over.

GI Jho5 votes

His E is the single most infuriating skill in the game. Used defensively, it's a mini item 3157 and a wallhop. Used offensively, it's a gapcloser that hits like a runaway bullet train.

RoyaiChaos4 votes

Fizz's q isn't the problem, it's that he's too snowbally and after just one kill can begin to safely dive you.

2pudge1cup4 votes

The champ itself isn't really that toxic when you boil it down. His untargetably is only half a second and his mobility is gated by having a target nearby and only going a fixed distance.

I feel like his problems are similar to Vayne. The champs themselves aren't that toxic, but they tend to attract the biggest dbag players in the game. It gives the perception that the champ itself is pure evil when in reality it just attracts the dipshits.

Based Satan Teemo doesn't get that kind of rage because Teemo players don't have as bad attitudes as Fizz players.

The5lacker3 votes

How about we make his untargetability have a cooldown greater than 8 seconds?

That might solve a lot of issues. Just a tad.

GLWuffie1 votes

He would need a buff to compensate for the CD loss. Why? He's a FIghter who relies on mana and AP (for the most part) and doesn't have a non-ult poke.

More CD in general actually HELPS Fizz since he won't run out of it as fast. I don't understand why someone can't hit a Fizz within 8 seconds of Cooldown (This is past Level 6 y'know... when he has his ult that he has this CD). You know he's gonna use it, bait him, be unpredictable, you play around it. Fizz isn't the only champ you play around with abilities. Do you make a Tower Dive against an Anivia who has her passive? Do you go full on against a Zilean or Trynd who has their ult? Do you fight a Jax who is twirling about?? All of them no. You bait them out, you play smart, and you work around it. Fizz is just another one of those champions.

~GL

FantasySniper1 votes

I regularly see Fizz duel a Zed and walk away.

Now what does that say?

DarthSpectrum6 votes

Fizz counters Zed? But in all seriousness, Fizz is the anti-fun. Everything about him, from his voice, taunts and abilities are made to induce rage.

He may not be as mobile as Zed or rip teams apart like Katarina but this champion deserves a nerf more so than anyone else.

Celeste Benal1 votes

I had a game just last night as Yasuo mid vs Fizz. I rofl-stomped him over and over, along with their Warwick jungler that tried camping mid.

Not saying his abilities aren't ridiculously OP. They are. But like any champ, if he doesn't get fed, he is a lot easier to deal with.

Samflash33 votes

You can't cure cancer with more cancer.

Just saying.

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