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Can juggernauts be removed without any major problems?

Plat Ap Malphite·10/2/2019, 4:48:23 PM·2 votes·1,463 views

This is all a jumbled mess because I am just frustrated with how unfun it is to verse juggernauts. If they get ahead they are so tanky that they just snowball and it feels like there is nothing that can be done to deal with them, four out of 5 of the team will focus them and they will only lose half health. While we still need to focus the backline. their laning phase is so dominate that it is impossible to have fun and if you screw up, you ruined the whole game for everyone. It is impossible to expect every jungler I queue with to properly camp and keep them down. Assassin, while incredibly annoying, have a purpose that has held true since the game was created. They stop backline character from dominating. Juggernauts just kill everyone. If you see an assassin top trying to push a tower, you through a tank or bruiser up there and they can reasonibly fight them. If a juggernaut is doing anything at all, you need 2 or 3 or more to fight them and hope that your rando teammates can dodge. Juggernauts main lane has no kiting or mobile champs in it so their main weakness is completely gone. If they get ahead in laning they become unstoppable monsters, so when a teamfight happens, most of your team is on the first item, while darius is on his second. You need to now focus the tanky character who is tanking most of your damage and he will oneshot back. The whole fanasty juggernauts try to fill is based on ruining the game for everyone. Juggernauts are only manageable if they are not far ahead, which is hard when laning gives them a huge boost. I know they exist to counter a future tank meta like what happened in 2014, but it feels like a bandade. These characters ruin every game they are in. How about removing the juggernaut class and nerf the tank items for a bit. This is not about win rate or competitive viablility, I reached gold and i still find them horrible to verse. Juggernauts ruin any amount of fun from laning onward. The counterplay to a character should not require skill higher then most of the people who play the game posses. The basic stuff should be enough to not create such a horrible experience. Playing safe under tower isnt possible when darius and illaoi can hit you with a pull and soul suck while you go for casters. Farming behind minions shouldnt be hell because yo made a small positioning error and lost all of your health to their combo. Ruining the game after laning because a teammate didnt have a good laning phase shouldnt be the default experience. Juggernauts are like assassins but atleast assassins are weak to tanky characters. I guess I need to understand,

What major role do juggernauts play that has to be filled? As in, can what ever juggernauts keep in check be filled by something less toxic to the enjoyment of the game. What made me tolerate assassins is that they play such a crucial part in stopping backline dominance, and they have a weakness to tanky characters. For juggernauts it feels like riot cant balance tanks to they made a subclass that destroys tanks by destroying everyone.

7 Comments

ImTheJuggernauty10/2/2019, 6:38:18 PM4 votes

While we're at it, can we remove adcs, assassins, and mobile high damage, highly tanky bruisers with lots of CC like jax, irelia, and riven because I have personal gripes with them? Will it hurt the game?

In not so many words, chill dude. Just because you don't like one class of champs doesn't mean they should be deleted. Everybody hates going up against at least one class of champs, does that mean all champ classes should be deleted? No, your request is absurd.

Plus you blatantly lie. Champs like yi, jax, and riven can easily 1v1 most juggernauts once they have some items. Riven can 1v1 from lvl 1, and if she gets ahead, they don't even have a chance at crawling back. They scale better in every way. You know who also easily 1v1s most juggernauts? Ez, vayne (braindead), a good Lucian, tristana (braindead), a good Caitlin, fiora, etc. You know who makes them useless in team fights? brand, malz, annivia, lux, etc. you lie so bad when you say that there are no mobile counters or kite champs in top lane. I've already listed a few, but then there's gnar, jayce, quin. Like, just delete your post man, it's obvious you put no thought into it, you're just tilted af.

ImTheJuggernauty10/2/2019, 6:58:50 PM2 votes

And please never again compare juggers to assassins. Juggers have what are called win conditions, and they have to be met in order to deal relevant damage. They can't 100-0 with anywhere near as little counterplay as an assassin. You have reaction time before their conditions are met. You can try to kill them, or burst and run, or just run. With assassins, once they jump you it's over unless you are stronger than them. Simple as that.

Juggernauts have horrible ability to chase you once you escape their zone, they also generally have multiple ways that opponents can exploit to reduce their damage. For instance. if you are yi, you simply Q while darius Q's and you basically auto win the fight, even early game, unless darius is far enough ahead.

And then you pretend that juggernauts are the only champs that punish you for farming. What about ranged champs? What about ASSASSINS? assassins will kill you anytime to approach a minion if they are even slightly ahead. Even a juggernaut doesn't have quite that much assurance of a kill when ahead, because again, you have windows of opportunity to escape. Once an assassin jumps you, you're already dead. What about mages into melee champs? Yesterday I laned against a malz top lane and couldn't do much but farm, he eventually got a lead.

What about champs like jax who scale insanely well, with only moderately wweak early games, who will destroy you if they get even one kill ahead, and dpon't you dare approach a minion less targeted jump stuns you.

what about renekton, who's combo has little counterplay, as he dashes in, stuns, unloads damage, and dashes out.

What about tryn who either gets a lucky kill early or passively waits, gets safe farm, heals through your poke, and proceeds to massively outscale you?

Simply, it seems you just hate juggernauts and you are prepared to make terrible arguments against them because you simply don't like their style.

What is their niche you say? Slow, high damage, but with conditions, and generally beefy. Many of them have telegraphed skill shots and solid sustain if they land their abilities. Low to medium amounts of CC. That's the niche, to BE A JUGGERNAUT. Beefy and high damage but telegraphed. That partially defines juggers. Just like high mobility and super high burst defines assassins. Range and aoe magic defines mages. CC and beefiness defines most tanks.

The only champions that generally break the rules of having too many strengths and too few weaknesses are champs like jax, irelia, pyke, yas, and riven.

Keiaga10/2/2019, 6:58:54 PM1 votes

You'll find that juggernauts are so much more effective than other champions because they're very easy to play. They thrive when they're able to just walk up to people and hit them. Some of their major weaknesses requires reactive "Wait for an opening" play on the part of the other player, instead of proactive "Do whatever I want whenever I feel like it" that everyone prefers to do. Especially at low elo, most people don't have a grasp on relatively simple concepts that hard counter juggernauts like

1.) Dodge the powerful, delayed skill

2.) Effectively kite

3.) Take advantage of cooldowns

4.) Be aware of long fights versus quick trades

DeathBurst10/7/2019, 2:14:29 PM1 votes

Even a fed Juggernaut still has the same weakness they always have: they can be kited to hell and back.

And even a Juggernaut that was shutdown in lane and is behind will win if you fight on their terms.

That's the defining quality of the class. Don't fight them on their own terms, but if you're careful and respect them, they shouldn't be able to force a fight by themselves.

As for what role do they play, maybe nothing major, but if you think Riot has created the class to balance Tanks, you have your history wrong. Juggernauts have been part of the game pretty much since the beginning.