I parsed before I made this post, so yes its true. If the enemy team doesn't buy armor, DO NOT GET LAST WHISPER. It's pointless. You don't get a 35% damage increase. I see this all the time in bronze. DO NOT GET LAST WHISPER UNLESS YOU FIGHT TANKS. Buy bloodthirster to survive or mercurial if you get cc'd, or reaver if you keep ooming mid teamfight (corki).
Edit: I mean any armor. Like. Nada. Editing some more: Nacho bauws taught me.
EvilRabbitt1 votesAlso, Jinx is in LB's position. A good lb is unstoppable, a good jinx is untouchable. I just got a pentakill, followed by a pentasteal (my jungler took one during my double kill...but we won so w/e lol). Meanwhile guy kept pm'ing me (some random person in 300 on my friends list) about how he was camping a Jinx cuz she was so easy. Yep. Night and day.... is amazing. Oh, and Lucian. Lucian likes to throw jinx across the lane and take her money. Quite a rude relationship.
Deep Terror Nami1 votesDid you calculate in Runes and Masteries? LW obviously is a more effective purchase the more armor they buy, but I'm just wondering the gold efficiency against just the typical armor runes.
EvilRabbitt1 votesI didn't calculate that. But I have constant matches against "youtube players"- the ones that just copy/paste runes and masteries into champs to win. I just noticed that when I bought bt I ended up 3 shotting everyone but the one tank. When i bought lw I had to shoot 6 or 7 times for EVERYONE so technically efficient when more tanky targets because it takes away the damage curve and makes all damage consistent.
Deep Terror Nami1 votesWell, BT has twice the AD that LW has so nobody is surprised there. I think the useful info we need to get out of this, is how much armor does it take to make 35% Armor Pen better than 40 AD. Just 1 cloth armor? Or chain vest or Warden's mail? Or more?
EvilRabbitt1 votesTech has a page open.
Well my standard build is (besides being definitely different, but it suiting my style)
then I pick last one. So for my build, I need to break the 105-185 damage barrier to make it effective. And cost effect out lifesteal (I keep pd for kiting). Lifesteal aside, the damage boost is 56.7% (I tried to guess it, pulling calculator out now). 28.4% effective ad from Last whisper. That just leaves 28.3% to break armor wise to make it cost effective (percentage). Against someone who built no armor items and has no armor runes, they probably have around 50 armor (averaged since this is bot lane oriented). IIRC, 50% damage reduction at 100 armor, so 50 will be about 25%- taking 35% outta 50, 17.5, makes it 32.5 armor which is about 21 or 22%. I'd go into 90+ armor for breaking even mathematically with my build. I'd still probably end up with bt, so I might swap pd which brings a whole other setup of math. But to break damage, assuming no thornmail/gromp/etc, 90+ which ranges from cloth armor (high armor base people) to something like warden's mail at lvl 18. Meaning anywhere above bronze/silver where people don't go full glass mid/adc/other-carry its effective. But in bronze where you see builds like 6 ludens echo or as/ad marksman, I'ma stick with saying bt is effective. So yes, I'm wrong higher elo. =) I get that. But I built lw and realized "hey, my damage is crazy low" and decided to make this since people do cookie cutter builds a lot. =)
Edit: Tech is nacho. The other poster.
TehNACHO1 votesWait what.
You do realize that the Last Whisper is still gold efficient against squishies, right?
EvilRabbitt1 votesIts not. Read reply to witch. If a squishy buys no armor, they will have between 30-50 armor total. Taking 35% of that is 11.5 to 17.5 armor taken. A very minor damage increase, maybe 4-7% depending again on how much they have. Meanwhile you buy something with 80 ad, you bought ie- any crit makes it 120 ad. Assuming you build standardly (bork, ie, shiv, pd, greaves, then lw or other), that is a boost (item wise) of 105 ad to 185 ad, roughly 65% damage increase. Compare the numbers. yes, you get 40 ad...but its all based in pen which makes it very cost inefficient towards players that build glass.
TehNACHO1 votesTry actually calculating DPS or burst.
This is an old project I made a long time ago, but basically, I calculated the most cost efficient items to maximize Tryndamere's Auto Attack DPS. You could read the entire document about how everything was calculated, but the important thing is the image close to the bottom detailing item effectiveness vs armor ranges. Specifically, notice how Last Whisper is the 4th item you should buy to maximize your DPS against enemies with less than 108 armor.
EvilRabbitt1 votesOOOOh. Ok. >.> Wait. So why is that the game I bought BT I 3 shot squishier players, but I bought LW and I took 5 to 7 shots for squishies? Same build, same path. >.> I'm trying to figure this out. I want to min/max my build for Jinx/Caitlyn and Vayne. Appreciated btw. >.> Still surprised.
Edit: Mathed it out below, which does make it cost efficient. And now I feel dumb, even though I posted this to bronze players like mehself. But how is that bt made me kill things faster? Genuinely curious because if you're chart, and my math, are on the same page....??? Thanks in advance.
TehNACHO1 votesThere's often different factors to consider. Same build, same path does not necessarily mean same power curve, as maybe you got fed really early one game or you lagged in CS in the other. (Off note, this is why higher level players insist that your builds have to be dynamic.)
If you had any Crit Chance, that also throws everything out the window.
There's a lot of context that's needed, so I can't really answer.
EvilRabbitt1 votesWhat's the technical best build? To me, it's FurorGreaves+IE+Bork+Shiv+PD+Bt/LW. But technically, whats the best one in teamfights to delete players quickest?
TehNACHO1 votesOff note, since you seemed to have picked up from me how this concept generally works, you might want to mention it in the OP.
TehNACHO1 votesEdit: Mathed it out below, which does make it cost efficient. And now I feel dumb, even though I posted this to bronze players like mehself. But how is that bt made me kill things faster? Genuinely curious because if you're chart, and my math, are on the same page....??? Thanks in advance.
I explain it thoroughly in the top half of the article.
((DPS with the item)-(DPS without the item))/(Cost of item)
What this causes is we see how much of a difference an item makes per gold spent.