And more about enchanting
This is the identity that I tie this champion with and the identity that I wanna feel when I play her, AOE enchanting (and also the identity that her kit is trying to portray)
That is all
Athenes Lulu11 votesFor once a reasonable Sona thread in a long while.
Too bad 90% of players don't even know the concept of "smart debuffing".
Bladerunner77777 votesJust turn Sona's QWER into a DDR game and the more consecutive arrows you hit the more you buff your allies :^)
Big Lincoln5 votesHonestly, I'd rather see her damage get shifted to sustained threat over her buying 
or being useless. It's healthier for her targeted play-style and more thematically sound as a music-player, and they'd probably be more willing to buff base stats and give her less reliance on AP to go with it.
More aura-based gameplay that worked in tandem with it would be great, too.
Quepha4 votesThe thing is that, even with her reworked aura procs, Sona standing around and making her allies win the game with free stats is incredibly uninteractive for Sona and her opponents at all stages of the game. She actually already has quite a bit of power in her auras that people don't realize how much it adds up over the course of a fight.
67chrome14 votesThe thing is that, even with her reworked aura procs, Sona standing around and making her allies win the game with free stats is incredibly uninteractive for Sona and her opponents at all stages of the game.
That's the play style an "aura champion" does promise though.
LoL already has plenty of champions that are flat out better at poking things to death than Sona, and plenty of champions with better core aesthetics centered around poking things to death.
Sona is a champion that looks like she grants auras and she's does it so poorly her mediocre poke is the only thing that really stands out. Especially considering Nami's kit overlaps hers pretty hard, and Sona's poke is the only thing that really stands out in that comparison.
Sona's core aesthetic really is one of a character that enhances allies and enchants her enemies with music as well. You can argue aura's don't fit that, but at her core: Sona really should be all about enchanting.
Quepha4 votesSona is a champion that looks like she grants auras and she's does it so poorly
But she doesn't, her strong auras are what let her maintain a solid winrate all throughout the late game. Giving allies damage procs gets work done, AoE shields get work done, AoE speed boosts get work done.
She's already the champion you want her to be but you don't realize it.
Atuko13 votesBut one of her problems is how reliant on AP she is
Because of how much AP she needs to actually work, if she doesn't get it then she's fucked, her base numbers aren't doing it because they've been nerfed
It feels terrible getting behind on Sona at the moment, especially because you're playing a support champion and because of that, is expected to make a come back for your team
Quepha1 votes[{quoted}](name=Im Atuko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-18T21:17:21.825+0000)
But one of her problems is how reliant on AP she is
Because of how much AP she needs to actually work, if she doesn't get it then she's fucked, her base numbers aren't doing it because they've been nerfed
It feels terrible getting behind on Sona at the moment, especially because you're playing a support champion and are expecting to make a come back for your team
It feels terrible getting behind on any champion and every position and class of champion has instances within them that depend more or less on getting an early lead. It's perfectly fine for Sona to be one of those champions as long as she has the tools to get it done, which she clearly does.
I wouldn't even say she's the support most dependent on getting an early lead; Leona, Annie, Zyra, Brand all fall off much faster if they don't get enough assist gold to keep up in items that allow them to do their job.
only zhule3 votesIt feels terrible getting behind on any champion and every position and class of champion has instances within them that depend more or less on getting an early lead. It's perfectly fine for Sona to be one of those champions as long as she has the tools to get it done, which she clearly does.
I wouldn't even say she's the support most dependent on getting an early lead; Leona, Annie, Zyra, Brand all fall off much faster if they don't get enough assist gold to keep up in items that allow them to do their job.
I disagree with you here. Most other supports. Still function pretty well even when a bit behind. Since most of them can still rely on their core kit to get their job done. Once Sona falls behind there is pretty much nothing she can do to catch back up. She lacks the tools to punish opponents.
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-18T22:09:34.535+0000)
I disagree with you here. Most other supports. Still function pretty well even when a bit behind. Since most of them can still rely on their core kit to get their job done. Once Sona falls behind there is pretty much nothing she can do to catch back up. She lacks the tools to punish opponents.
Except for hard-countering an initiate with ult, slowing an out-of-position carry with her power chord, neutralizing an assassin's damage with her power chord, getting her allies to and from places faster with her E, and spreading buffs from windspeaker's and ardent censer with her W.
only zhule2 votesExcept for hard-countering an initiate with ult, slowing an out-of-position carry with her power chord, neutralizing an assassin's damage with her power chord, getting her allies to and from places faster with her E, and spreading buffs from windspeaker's and ardent censer with her W.
I have rarely found it the case that a team will all in with Sona out of range of the fight starting, but within range that she can turn around and hard counter the initiation.
With the level of mobility in the game, slowing a champion who is out of position is not enough to secure a kill. If I could chain the slow, maybe, but as is its not enough.
The assassin let you get off the empowered W before blowing their cool downs? That is a very bad assassin.
The movement speed would be fine if it wasn't limited by both a long base cool down and a super short duration.
Censer is another thing I see a lot of people point to. The issue is that it's almost always a bad choice on Sona. There are very very few team comps that it's beneficial to give the buff to your allies (at least to the level people think it would)
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-18T22:44:58.466+0000)
I have rarely found it the case that a team will all in with Sona out of range of the fight starting, but within range that she can turn around and hard counter the initiation.
Preventing engages is bad?
Censer is another thing I see a lot of people point to. The issue is that it's almost always a bad choice on Sona. There are very very few team comps that it's beneficial to give the buff to your allies (at least to the level people think it would)
Sona has a 57% winrate with Ardent Censer how is that "almost always a bad choice"?
only zhule2 votesPreventing engages is bad?
Sona has a 57% winrate with Ardent Censer how is that "almost always a bad choice"?
Not saying she can't. But it's rare that Sona survives starting an engage or stopping one before it starts. The stun isn't long enough to escape and the movement speed boost doesn't hold up against 99% of champions mobility / slows.
I have long wanted to watch some of these games. Sona has some good match ups, but often I think her win % is based off another lane dominating. Or the jungle babysitting bottom.
ImmortalBloodCY1 votesI have went up to 25 minutes as Soraka with just my 
and
and on first death I used all my 5k gold to buy things asap :P
Erockandroll3 votes[{quoted}](name=Im Atuko,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-18T21:17:21.825+0000)
But one of her problems is how reliant on AP she is
Because of how much AP she needs to actually work, if she doesn't get it then she's fucked, her base numbers aren't doing it because they've been nerfed
It feels terrible getting behind on Sona at the moment, especially because you're playing a support champion and are expecting to make a come back for your team
As a Sona main, I don't really agree with the sentiment that she's AP Reliant. Considering that not a single ratio of her goes above 50%. (collectively, her spell, aura, and powerchord would, but she doesn't have a solo spell that heavy.) And I mainly point this out, because we are picking up lichbane and Luden's over a death cap. (But those two items are good for other reasons, not just poke)
I also state this because of her Early game. If I'm not directly countered, I find that I can win most matchups in the early game.
As for your original Question. Improving Sona's auras would likely turn the game too much into a stat's check for her team. The only way you could add counterplay to that is if you had to chose your targets. This would be counter intuitive for her Auras, but it would work great with her powerchord mechanic.
And that's where I feel like more room for supportive features can come from. Right now, her Q-powerchord is basically goto for her. Increasing her damage from her powercord, (Which affects towers by the way.) without really worrying about her teammates capitalizing on it. (Compared to her other two chords, which are a limited duration damage debuff, and a slow) One idea I had was turning it into a defense shred, (of similar duration as the other powerchords) allow it to increase you allies damage to a particular target.
only zhule2 votesAs a Sona main, I don't really agree with the sentiment that she's AP Reliant. Considering that not a single ratio of her goes above 50%. (collectively, her spell, aura, and powerchord would, but she doesn't have a solo spell that heavy.) And I mainly point this out, because we are picking up lichbane and Luden's over a death cap. (But those two items are good for other reasons, not just poke)
I also state this because of her Early game. If I'm not directly countered, I find that I can win most matchups in the early game.
As for your original Question. Improving Sona's auras would likely turn the game too much into a stat's check for her team. The only way you could add counterplay to that is if you had to chose your targets. This would be counter intuitive for her Auras, but it would work great with her powerchord mechanic.
And that's where I feel like more room for supportive features can come from. Right now, her Q-powerchord is basically goto for her. Increasing her damage from her powercord, (Which affects towers by the way.) without really worrying about her teammates capitalizing on it. (Compared to her other two chords, which are a limited duration damage debuff, and a slow) One idea I had was turning it into a defense shred, (of similar duration as the other powerchords) allow it to increase you allies damage to a particular target.
I think an easy thing that could be done with her is to change her E power cord into a root or stun. Starts at 1 second goes up .25 per rank.
I think another big issue with her, is that she is more CDR reliant then basically any other champion. She doesn't have a big go too ability that if hit is really game changing (other then her ultimate). So where other champions can choose to get a bunch of CDR, and then have access to their abilities faster, Sona kind of has to max the stat or she just doesn't preform. (Legit try playing Sona with 20% or less CDR in the mid to late game)
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-18T22:28:19.054+0000)
She doesn't have a big go too ability that if hit is really game changing (other then her ultimate).
What a useless observation.
only zhule2 votesWhat a useless observation.
You want an observation? Name me a support, other then Soraka, and I will name you the one skill they have that if it hits makes all the difference in a fight.
Atuko2 votesBard - Hard CC on basic ability, can travel his teammates across the map, AOE stasis Janna - Hard CC on basic ability, can phyisically displace enemies while healing AOE at same time, huge shield Taric - Hard CC on basic ability (can create two), can create TWO AOE zones to make his teammates invunerable, AOE heal (can create two) Nami - Hard CC on basic ability, wide skillshot knockup plus slow Soraka - Spam-able heal, global heal, AOE silence Nautilius, Leona, Blizcrank, Alistar, Thresh - Hard CC on basic abilities Braum - Spam-able slow leading into stun, AOE knock-up and slow, shield that blocks projectiles
got u my friend
It Hertz When IP1 votesYou forgot Nautilus has hard CC just on his passive AAs. ^-^
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-18T22:48:42.946+0000)
You want an observation? Name me a support, other then Soraka, and I will name you the one skill they have that if it hits makes all the difference in a fight.
I like how you, yet again, can't make a statement that supports your argument without putting a glaring, arbitrary restriction on it.
Also, Zilean.
only zhule3 votesI like how you, yet again, can't make a statement that supports your argument without putting a glaring, arbitrary restriction on it.
Also, Zilean.
So your a troll. Got it.
As for Zilean, time bomb's ability to stun.
Quepha2 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-18T23:06:39.929+0000)
So your a troll. Got it.
As for Zilean, time bomb's ability to stun.
That's two abilities whether you only count 'landing' from two bombs or 'casting' if you only count buttons you have to press. It's three if you count both of those metrics.
Ratbert1 votesSo? He said one skill, not one cast. Zilean's Q has a stun if two bombs hit one thing. Whatever his means are to do so, it's still one skill.
If not, count his ult.
Quepha2 votesSo? He said one skill, not one cast. Zilean's Q has a stun if two bombs hit one thing. Whatever his means are to do so, it's still one skill.
If not, count his ult.
The cooldown of Q is not low enough to get a stun without also using his reset. Like I said, no matter what metric you use it is at least two spells.
ChaoticPinecone2 votesAre you really trying to argue that Sona's ult isnt gamechanging in a fight?
only zhule1 votesAre you really trying to argue that Sona's ult isnt gamechanging in a fight?
I'm arguing that it's the ONLY thing she has that changes the game. While other supports have at least 2 abilities that greatly effect the outcome of a fight.
Or better said, that Sona is the only one who lacks a hard CC before level 6, and even after that point it's very limited (don't want to use it on a single target since 140 seconds is a LONG downtime)
Erockandroll2 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-18T22:28:19.054+0000)
I think an easy thing that could be done with her is to change her E power cord into a root or stun. Starts at 1 second goes up .25 per rank.
I think another big issue with her, is that she is more CDR reliant then basically any other champion. She doesn't have a big go too ability that if hit is really game changing (other then her ultimate). So where other champions can choose to get a bunch of CDR, and then have access to their abilities faster, Sona kind of has to max the stat or she just doesn't preform. (Legit try playing Sona with 20% or less CDR in the mid to late game)
That would be incredibly OP. Effectively a point and click root after 3 casts, it would merely replace Q-chord as goto. Also, save for her ult, I don't really feel like she should have massive amounts of CC. When she already has lots of damage, healing, and other utilities.
Also, Even though Sona is CDR reliant, that doesn't really feel like a limitation, as support itemization is flushed with CDR options.
only zhule1 votesThat would be incredibly OP. Effectively a point and click root after 3 casts, it would merely replace Q-chord as goto. Also, save for her ult, I don't really feel like she should have massive amounts of CC. When she already has lots of damage, healing, and other utilities.
Also, Even though Sona is CDR reliant, that doesn't really feel like a limitation, as support itemization is flushed with CDR options.
I don't feel a stun on a 12 second cool down is all that amazing. But worst case we could up the base cool down timer, buff the duration of the speed boost to compensate.
The support items mostly have CDR, this is true. But few champions need to max out before there kit functions in the mid to late game. Much less also need a fair chunk of AP since the base levels of their abilities aren't all that great
Quepha1 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-18T23:38:19.161+0000)
I don't feel a stun on a 12 second cool down is all that amazing.
Taric literally had to be completely balanced around one with a longer cooldown.
only zhule1 votesTaric literally had to be completely balanced around one with a longer cooldown.
The idea isn't perfect, but it is rather annoying that Sona is the only champion without pre lvl 6 hard CC. Hell even Soraka has it (all be it being SUPER hard to land). Hell i'd even give up on that idea if Sona's enchantment skills were a bit more sustain based instead of one shots.
Quepha1 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000001000000010000,timestamp=2016-04-19T19:36:01.801+0000)
Sona is the only champion without pre lvl 6 hard CC.
Trundle Support has zero hard cc, even post-6.
Even if he did, it's ok for there to be a champion in this game that is different from others. Sona doesn't need hard cc before 6 to succeed, she succeeds in her own way without Riot having to turn her into a generic paint-by-numbers support.
only zhule1 votesTrundle Support has zero hard cc, even post-6.
Even if he did, it's ok for there to be a champion in this game that is different from others. Sona doesn't need hard cc before 6 to succeed, she succeeds in her own way without Riot having to turn her into a generic paint-by-numbers support.
Trundle is not a Support character. I am choosing not to account for the off meta champions that "can" be played bottom, but were never designed around it. There was a point where you could see a 
playing support, Hell i have even seen
played as a support.
Quepha1 votes[{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VJAAEVT,comment-id=000200000000000000010000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-19T19:50:11.468+0000)
Trundle is not a Support character. I am choosing not to account for the off meta champions that "can" be played bottom, but were never designed around it. There was a point where you could see a
Trundle is not off-meta. 25% of Trundle picks in Plat+ are for support, he's seen success in pro play.
Whether or not you think Trundle is "supposed" to be played as a bot lane support is completely irrelevant. The fact is that Trundle IS played support and he DOES succeed in that role (as does Sona) despite not having hard cc on his kit pre- or post-6
Hard cc is not necessary to make for a successful support.
Therefore, Sona does not need hard cc to be a successful support.
The Yetii Rider1 votesThe reason Sona is so AP reliant is so that people don't build her tank. Same with Soraka's health costs. Enchanters need to be squishy and immobile so that targeting them feels good. (Unlike Tahm, who just makes his target immune and walks away).
ImperialKain1 votesI build 
AP tank in ARAM. Pretty easy to force the enemy teams to hard engage your team or get pushed under tower.
My 3 core items are:
Mana, ap and shield.
Armor, CDR, some damage and a slow for an engage or disengage.
Improved healing with some CDR, HP and Magic Resist.
+ E, to get close enough to Q or just auto you before they run away.
Last two items depend solely on what we got and what the enemy team is bring to the table.
We have a tank that can engage for us and enemy has alot of mobilty? 
Team are all glass cannons and enemy has more than one form of engage? 
and so on.
Masteries cunning: Windspeaker's Blessing better healing and defenses for team. Reslove: Runic Armor More self healing and shielding.
You can almost become a sustain tank with just her W and it's pretty hard to kill you if they can't stop you from using W, and E and just run away like your 
or something.
This was the last ARAM I got Sona
I had to be the frontline for this game. If I had built glass cannon AP with them having 
, we would have been worst off. I had to draw out everyone of their CDs (and survive) for us to even try and team fight them.
Karbuncle1 votesYou can build whatever you want on Aram when you have Sona are you serious? Like she has a 62% winrate on that map because of how stupidly good her kit is on Aram,there's literally no point in saying "I build AP tank" when everyone knows shes op on Aram and underwhelming on Summoners Rift,You know the map where her gameplay is actually focused on like every champ in the game.
Ravenhale2 votesI would gladly trade her poke for CC/Peel and better defensive base stats.
LankPants1 votesI would gladly trade her poke for CC/Peel and better defensive base stats.
That still wouldn't make her good, if you replaced Q with something like a Bard Q and lowered her passive damage she'd just be a worse Janna rather than a worse Nami.
Sona honestly just needs peel added to her current kit. She doesn't need compensation nerfs for it, she's a weak champion with no real niche who's desperately in need of a reason to be picked.
I'd say what should be done with her is change her Q into a 2 charge skillshot so the mouthbreathers stop complaining about her "OP auto target harass", even though a skill shot is actually stronger than autotarget harass it would make her seem less powerful to the bronzies who somehow manage to aim skillshots at their towers. Then replace her E with an actual spell. The spell portion of her E (not the aura) is literally the most pathetic spell in the game right now. Her W and Q aren't terrible when you ignore the aura, her E is a speed boost which does literally nothing since the aura already pushes her over the cap. If she had an actual spell on her E, preferably one she could peel with even if it's situational rather than just the aura there might actually be a reason to pick her.
McKeifus2 votesAs a former Sona main, I'm actually pretty happy with Sona's gameplay. The poke is a nice early game deterrent, and the rest of her kit really shines in late game play. What she mostly suffers from is a lack of good support itemization synergy. Ardent censor is pretty much the only thing that gets her support boosties. Would like more interaction with her buffs.
Tengrichan1 votesHer pre-rework gameplay did exactly what you described. Riot could rework her and make her work similar to Invoker.
LankPants1 votesHer pre-rework gameplay did exactly what you described.
Her auras now are far weaker than they were pre rework. The main difference is that with pre rework Sona your expected result with each aura was to hit 5 people, since the range was quite large. Because of this her old Q and W auras had a combined gold value of around 10k.
Sona's new "auras" probably need to hit at least 3 people to even out this gold value, but that's before you account for the massive kit nerfs she took when she took when she received these "auras". In order for new Sona to be as effective as old Sona you probably need to hit your entire team with your "auras", which is super unrealistic.
So no, right now she's really not a better 'enchanter' than she was pre rework.
Tengrichan1 votesI didn't even say anything about her being a better enchanter right now than pre-rework.On the contrary she was way better before the rework.
dunkeroni1 votesShe used to be more about Auras and enchanting. He Auras were actually permanent until you cast another spell. Then they reworked her to be more about poke and temporary buffs. They also reduced her range. Also her ult was made thinner. Then they made her abilities cost more. Then they reduced the damage on her Q. Then they reduced her heal potential. Even ARAM got nerfs to how heal mechanics work on that map with reference to Sona in the patch notes.
There is a silver lining though: They eventually reduced the mana cost on her Ult.
Sona's new persona is about poke, and it's a rather healthy lane mechanic so I don't think it should change. I was a Sona main for several seasons, and you can really play her however you want. If you want to focus on enchanting, then max W and E while building ancient coin.
only zhule1 votesShe used to be more about Auras and enchanting. He Auras were actually permanent until you cast another spell. Then they reworked her to be more about poke and temporary buffs. They also reduced her range. Also her ult was made thinner. Then they made her abilities cost more. Then they reduced the damage on her Q. Then they reduced her heal potential. Even ARAM got nerfs to how heal mechanics work on that map with reference to Sona in the patch notes.
There is a silver lining though: They eventually reduced the mana cost on her Ult.
Sona's new persona is about poke, and it's a rather healthy lane mechanic so I don't think it should change. I was a Sona main for several seasons, and you can really play her however you want. If you want to focus on enchanting, then max W and E while building ancient coin.
except that her enchantment play style is god awful. All of her buffs are really lackluster on a base level, and require large amounts of AP (and a team comp that can use those buffs) to be even remotely useful. The issue being that if you are going to get 300+ AP, you might as well just play her as an assassin since you won't have the support items needed to be a good utility character.
I think Sona suffers from the issue that she is shoehorned into the support role, but then expected to transition mid game into this sudo assassin that is great at finishing off champions with 30% or less of their health in a single hit.
Evewynn1 votesAs someone who is passionate about sona, what are your thoughts of increasing her cool downs massively to allow her to have abilities that feel much more impactful or have an easily visible and effective duration length?
Fives555551 votesYea, it's complete bs to play against her as she gets free poke every time she presses Q
FantasySniper1 votesI've been saying this for a while. Aria needs a good bit of its initial burst shifted to the aura, including some AP ratio.