Why is Sejuani's Permafrost slow duration at 1.5 seconds at all ranks?

19 19 19·Dec 10, 2014·7 votes·1,840 views

Isn't the point of the word Permafrost and it's icon to show that your movement speed is greatly reduced?

36 Comments

jinxedchefDec 10, 20144 votes

The Sejuani changes are one of those buffs that feels like a nerf.

FyshinaTuxDec 10, 20146 votes

they "changed" some damage, increased some damage, lowered some damage (iirc permafrost damage was lowered) and lowered her utility... I don't play Sejuani to do damage, I play Sejuani to CC shit for my team.

What do? -_-

EffectFXDec 10, 20142 votes

It's a nerf to AP burst sej, but a buff to tank sej.

MattAkhavanDec 10, 20144 votes

The 1.5 seconds at all ranks is to compensate for the huge buffs to it's cool down. AT 40% cool down reduction the cool down of permafrost is ~3-4 seconds leaving only 1.5-2 s of normal speed. additionally because you can cast permafrost twice as fast, you are actually slowing the target for longer. On live, level 5 permafrost slows for 2.5 seconds but has a cool down of 11 seconds. with the new patch you will slow for 3 seconds with 2 permafrosts. spreading out the slow is actually really good in my opinion anyways.

I play sejuani a ton and have played with the changes on the pbe, and I would say the slow reduction is WELL worth the reduced cool down. Since permafrost is a huge bulk of ap sejuani's damage it's worth being able to cast it twice.

19 19 19Dec 10, 20142 votes

The 1.5 seconds at all ranks is to compensate for the huge buffs to it's cool down. AT 40% cool down reduction the cool down of permafrost is ~3-4 seconds leaving only 1.5-2 s of normal speed. additionally because you can cast permafrost twice as fast, you are actually slowing the target for longer. On live, level 5 permafrost slows for 2.5 seconds but has a cool down of 11 seconds. with the new patch you will slow for 3 seconds with 2 permafrosts. spreading out the slow is actually really good in my opinion anyways.

I play sejuani a ton and have played with the changes on the pbe, and I would say the slow reduction is WELL worth the reduced cool down. Since permafrost is a huge bulk of ap sejuani's damage it's worth being able to cast it twice.

Are you like a Secret riot employee who's anti with people's opinions? I look at your boards profile and all your comments are the opposite of what people want to read which would makes sense if you get down voted all the time.

MattAkhavanDec 10, 20144 votes

haha, I am not a secret riot employee, but i think a lot of peoples opinions are more based off joining the herds of people saying something is true when it isn't necessarily true. Listen, i am all ears and I am ready to listen to people who challenge my views if they give me good reasons. I have changed my mind about so many things from people proving me wrong, but there are a ton of things that I just have different opinions on. Most of the time I challenge an opinion i give reasons why i think their opinion is wrong and why i think mine is right. In some cases i even list sources of where i get information.

Honestly, most of my down votes come from lee sin and cassiopeia topics, mostly lee sin though. I don't post so much on cassio because i didn't play cass religiously pre-rework, but i do comment on what i know about the new rework.

That being said, i am against the idea that being able to permanently slow an enemy through permafrost is balanced. i think the changes were appropriate. .

Champion SkinDec 10, 20141 votes

Well in one way it is also a nerf as you will use more mana (and with the changes to W it will probably be harder to max E first)

MattAkhavanDec 10, 20141 votes

You still end up using less mana because you dont arctic assault in jungle anymore. Actually going flail is really good, and depending on how you LIKE playing sej will translate into how you level her skills. Leveling flail is the most mana efficient and probably clear efficient but it lacks in ganks and dueling.

Champion SkinDec 11, 20141 votes

I think flail would likely be the best for dueling as well given that it is the skill that would give you the most damage while E and Q simply has too long cooldowns to be that significant in a duel (unless you burst down the person your dueling that is then cooldowns won't really matter as much as you are just using them once anyways)

MattAkhavanDec 11, 20141 votes

from how i've been playing recently, W is okay for dueling buy permafrost is still supreme. when it comes to late game though flail does more damage because before W ends you can start it again

EffectFXDec 10, 20142 votes

You should definitely be maxing W first with her now.

EffectFXDec 10, 20142 votes

Ever heard of mob/herd mentality?

DoubleDammitDec 10, 20141 votes

The 1.5 seconds at all ranks is to compensate for the huge buffs to it's cool down. AT 40% cool down reduction the cool down of permafrost is ~3-4 seconds leaving only 1.5-2 s of normal speed. additionally because you can cast permafrost twice as fast, you are actually slowing the target for longer. On live, level 5 permafrost slows for 2.5 seconds but has a cool down of 11 seconds. with the new patch you will slow for 3 seconds with 2 permafrosts. spreading out the slow is actually really good in my opinion anyways.

I play sejuani a ton and have played with the changes on the pbe, and I would say the slow reduction is WELL worth the reduced cool down. Since permafrost is a huge bulk of ap sejuani's damage it's worth being able to cast it twice.

You're implying that Sejuani will have 40% CDR Say its mid game and youre in a team fight, you have rank 5 permafrost. You don't have blue buff (that went to mid), you have jungle item and boots of mob and sunfire cape. Maybe rylais. You have a total of 10% CDR because Sejuani has never itemized for CDR (full builds usually looking like boots, jungle item [which is where the 10% came from], Sunfire Cape, Abyssal Scepter, Rylais, and Liandry's Torment or Randuins Omen or Banshees Veil). She will almost never have 40% CDR following a normal, plausible build path unless you are building her full AP in which case then yeah she will have it if she itemizes correctly. I personally don't enjoy full ap sej as she gets blown up very quickly being a melee champion especially if the other team knows youre building ap. These buffs were a direct nerf to tank sejuani and force you to build AP, that's all there is to it.

MattAkhavanDec 11, 20142 votes

I disagree. especially because building magic pen isn't as effective anymore due to lots of lost base damage. you need to build more raw Ap which in turn should lead into a ton of cdr. Magus + 5% from masteries is 25% already. you only need 1 more item whether it is morellonomicon or glaical shroud you are still roughly around 40%. You can even just get boots of lucidty after magus and go tanky after that and you hit 40%.

Tank sejuani gets a really nice buff too i think. the buffs to flail reward her for building health even more than it did before. further if you want you can only use flail to jungle and save a ton of mana for ganking.

Rinky DinkyDec 11, 20141 votes

Sejuani needs 40% cdr. I have toyed around a bit, and the best thing to do is build her as a cdr tank. With only 3 tank items, my W was dealing 200+ damage per tick, and with my cdr, it was up 100% of the time during fights. I also had sunfire cape. Sejuani's lategame is terrifying right now. She is a tank that you cannot ignore.

Leti the YetiDec 10, 20143 votes

this is so you dont have to max permafrost for the slow its stuck at 1.5 seconds whether you like it or not so you might as well put 1 point in it and max something else like her flail ;l

19 19 19Dec 10, 20142 votes

this is so you dont have to max permafrost for the slow its stuck at 1.5 seconds whether you like it or not so you might as well put 1 point in it and max something else like her flail ;l

You sir are right

MattAkhavanDec 10, 20141 votes

Permafrost is still going to be maxed first for AP sejuani or hybrid sejuani. It still provides more burst damage and utility than any of her other moves. as for tank sej or a jungle heavy sejuani you are going to want to max flail.

The Besides, the cool down reduction is well worth the trade of slow duration.

Leti the YetiDec 10, 20141 votes

I would say that her Q does more damage than pemafrost 260 dmg vs 180? not sure on CD or otehr scalings

MattAkhavanDec 10, 20141 votes

So there are a few things about this. Initially Arctic assault will do more damage because it has higher base damage ( damage transferred from permafrost to arctic assault) but permafrost scales at 50% ap and arctic assault scales at 40%. Secondly you can cast permafrost much more frequently and reliably than arctic assault. If you miss your arctic assault then you just don't do any damage, but if you hit arctic assault or an auto or flail or even your ultimate you can proc permafrost. Finally arctic assualt costs more mana than permafrost so you can't spam it as much, especially considering sejuani already has some mana problems.

SmokingPuffinDec 10, 20143 votes

Their goal is to make Sejuani want to be in the fight more. Right now, Sejuani's long cooldowns and lame auto damage usually meant that she'd press all the buttons, then chill in the back until they came back.

Now, W will do more damage over time, and E will have a shorter duration and a shorter cooldown. Both of these effects mean Sejuani is more interested in being in the middle of the action.

Whether this makes her good enough to pick, we'll have to see. I do believe these changes are a nice buff, but tank jungling is really uphill right now.

SukishooDec 11, 20141 votes

Yup. All the changes make sure that when playing her, you WANT to be in the center of the fight.

I've been playing her a lot since the patch hit and all I've done is stay in the middle/front of the fights.

RaptameiDec 10, 20142 votes

I remember when the slow was actually good...

Leti the YetiDec 10, 20143 votes

I remember when the slow was actually good...

nasus says hi

19 19 19Dec 10, 20141 votes

I remember when the slow was actually good...

nasus says hi

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

BresnDec 10, 20141 votes

Nasus Five second slow that increases with time followed by 2 second of non-slow BAM another slow

Hehe

Cosmic WarperDec 10, 20141 votes

They should have set it to 2s, right in the middle so it could stay a 1 point wonder and still be good. Now it's just bad and doesn't even deserve a point till lvl 4 because it doesn't help her much.

19 19 19Dec 10, 20141 votes

They should have set it to 2s, right in the middle so it could stay a 1 point wonder and still be good. Now it's just bad and doesn't even deserve a point till lvl 4 because it doesn't help her much.

Like I don't understand Riot's logic when it comes to balancing champions. They create a champion saying its this type of person and then the next thing you know they remove the overall point of the champion -_-

EffectFXDec 10, 20142 votes

A lot of people complain, but Riot has a pretty good understanding of what they're doing.

KriegsmaschineDec 10, 20141 votes

Why would you want a buff to W if you can't even keep the enemy close to you with E . . .

I'd take the 2.5 seconds slow over that CD reduction. Most teamfights and ganks dont last enough to use Permafrost a second time (Specially ganks) . . .

Come on Riot use your brains and think about these god damn changes!

EffectFXDec 10, 20141 votes

I don't know, maybe land your Q, your R, and buy some CDR so you can basically have incredible uptime on your abilities.

EffectFXDec 10, 20141 votes

They're still slowed, and now you can also slow them more frequently, at level 5 it has nearly half the cooldown it previously had.

BeatzBoyFTWDec 11, 20141 votes

Riot: Here's some Sejuani buffs for yuh. But wait, what if she surpass LeeSin or Warwick . Oh well, let's water down her CC instead.

Stop. Doing. This.

QuephaDec 11, 20141 votes

their movement speed IS greatly reduced, the strength of the slow is still the same. also permafrost's cooldown is reduced dramatically to the point where sejuani still slows enemies for a greater portion of a fight by using permafrost multiple times.

chumblerDec 11, 20141 votes

If Riot doesn't want to actually buff a champion (because they're not esports friendly) they'll make these kinds of non-change, usually a nerf changes just to look like they give a damn. Riot has no intention of Sejuani actually being a viable pick. If she ever is, it will be because they nerfed everyone else, and Sejuani will be swiftly nerfed after.

You should know by now that they have no actual direction with this game beyond #LCSBIGPLAYS and trying to tread water.