Changes to Turrets (towers), dragon/baron/ rift herald spawn location

Bluezy··1 votes·1,987 views

These are just suggestions/ideas so take it with a grain of salt and leave some constructive criticism/feedback.

1 *Starting with towers or turrets. For the first two outer rows there should be half of towers that are better suited for ability power damage to siege / destroy and other the other half physical damage to siege / destroy. To do this have a tower have way more armor but low magic resist and it applies the ap with the ad in the autoattacks (the armor/magic resist of the turrets would be balanced accordingly to be fair since champs already have base ad). Then the other way around for the other towers like it currently is. So you could get 2 Armor turrets in just the first or second row in any of the 3 locations or vice versa with the magic resist towers. So there would be 3 armor and 3 magic resist turrets in total. Also the ratio should be 2 to 1 for both rows so it isn't 3 magic resist in one row and 3 armor in the other. The order in which the tower/turrets are placed will always be unique for every game but with a 2 to 1 ratio. So one game the first outer mid turret is armor the next it could be magic resist. This is to combat predetermined lanes and the overall meta.

2 *All 3 lanes have the same sequence of turret order for both sides. So if top lane's 1st outer turret is armor and the 2nd one magic resist it would be the same on the other side's top lane. Cannot allow either side to check their own turrets stats because then they wouldn't have to look at the enemy turret and be able to just look at theirs. The only thing they could see from their turret stats is its health. Overall neither side would gain an advantage based on the turret placements.

3 *Minions do true damage to towers where all minions do the same amount of damage as they currently do now.

4 *players are not allowed to know what towers are which in the beginning until they go scout them out by getting almost right at the edge of the enemies turret's range to see its stats. Reason for this is so the laning phase is ambiguous and always a surprise of who players end up facing. So for example when both team spawn they either go all together or some go solo to see what type of towers the first row is. Then they either decide on the fly which lane they want to be more effective at taking objectives or if they already had a plan of the lane they wanted then they stick to that.

This could lead to way more early game team fights, jungle invasions, teammates would have to come to help other teammates more often to capture objectives instead of staying in there own lane the whole time, overall improvement in communication with one another's teammates and adding more strategy to the game. Also you wont get people spamming the position they want in champion select because they just wont know what they're going to go up against and they have no other option but to be a team player.

5 *The 3rd row of turrets and nexus turrets are both armor and magic resist.

I'm tired of the same old routine of the early game, waiting for minions to finally get to lane or helping the jungler. It seems right now to be such a hassle to get your team to do an early game invasion to set the enemy jungler behind. It would be much more interesting if people had to get really close to enemy turrets and a whole enemy team is nearby.

6 *The whole point of bot lane is so the adc and support are there to secure dragon. But what if dragon had a Random permanent set spawn location for each individual game in either just the dragon pit or baron pit. So if dragon is in top lane where Baron spawns, Baron would spawn bot lane for that game (also including rift herald). So people wouldn't know where they would spawn until they're already in lane farming. I think the adc/support would go mid more often since most the time they have a mixture of ad/and some ap if they build it but of course its a trade off for supports if they do instead of building utility and defensive. Also if Baron spawned bot lane it would block the screen since its really tall so have it be in a different position were its coiled up like a snake or something and fights differently.

7 * Make for either dragon or rift herald give a temporary buff that helps the champ be able to siege/destroy a tower that isn't easy for them (but not give them an easier time to destroy a tower that they are already good at). So an AP champ we be able to take down an Magic resist turret with more ease and a AD champ will be able to take down an armor turret easier too. Thats just one temporary buff you can get. Then have a buff between dragon or rift that makes it easier for them to siege the tower they are already good at but wont help with the ones they are not good at. So an AP champ would get a temp buff for taking down Armor towers but still wont have an easier time taking down magic resist one's. Make Baron give both buffs i guess, still not to certain on this idea, its just a work in progress and need others input on what they would think works. Riot says that people are not using dragon or rift herald so much, maybe this can make them more enticing.

Things brought up in comments that may answer questions.

I understand that minions don't do magic damage but what if all minions could deal true damage just to towers where its equal to the damage they do now.

It just gives every champ a fair chance to become able to siege well but doesn't mean they have to or have to be amazing at it. So if an AP champ wanted to be better at sieging structures that champ would want some attack speed instead of cdr, that champ could get Berserkers greaves instead of Sorcerer's or Iucidity for the cdr. How often do you see someone build Nashor's tooth? WIth its a attack speed it could finally have more of a use than just that one item for that specific champ. Not all AD casters are the best at sieging or destroying structures but they are better at it than AP casters while being just as good at killing other champions and clearing waves (example zed).

it would be decision making to go scout out towers and decide the lanes, also you can right click on the tower to check it stats. WOAH! Making the dragon and baron spawns in either location adds diversity and would separate the good team that checks or the jungler that wards there before hand so they no which is which when it finally spawns. WOAH this randomness is off the charts!

25 Comments

Werewolf Link2 votes

Randomness does not make for a good LCS experience. Too many variables.

Bluezy1 votes

It could lead to a more strategic exciting LCS! I don't think what im purposing would break the game. I think there is alot of randomness with LOL. This isn't just a game where you right click and everything is auto targeted like Dota 2. There's skill shot abilities that you either land or don't, critical chance for auto attacks, everyone has different rune pages, masteries, and item builds for champs. I think these variations and "randomness" is what made this game as popular as it is today. If Randomness isn't your thing (and i think the word "randomness" is really exaggerating my idea) then Dota 2 might be the game for you instead of league. Thanks for the feedback. I hope the tone of this paragraph isn't aggressive or insulting. I really do appreciate it.

AyRe CoNteMpT2 votes

also can we add an item that costs 3000 gold and gives between 1 and 300 ad depending on diceroll and you cant sell it? i could think of many other cool RNG things that would make the game much better!

Bluezy1 votes

I see that you are trying to compare my post to a bad idea for some type of comparison but this is such a bad attempt that you probably didn't read my ideas completely and try to imagine it.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

generally speaking your idea is probably not that bad but remember this: every single point of RNG you put into the game is ALWAYS bad, no matter how cool you feel about your idea and i will never give you any props for an idea that contains randomness.

Bluezy1 votes

I guess you don't like critical chance then.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

hey, you guessed right. congratulations.

Bluezy1 votes

In my opinion i think League of legends is the most dynamic or has the most "randomness" out of any moba today, from its crit chance, skill shots that may or may not hit, to rune pages and masteries. I think its one of the reasons that made this game so popular that others try to mimic. You might like dota 2 if you don't like as much randomness, sorry to say that game has crit chance too though. (Edit) change randomness to dynamic

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

runes and masteries are not random and skillshots are not random too. they may not hit, but thats not random. crit is random and it shouldnt really exist but its also not such a huge problem. tho i feel like its just not healthy to have it and there isnt really any reason you should have it.

Bluezy1 votes

So every time you go up against the same champ in lane but its a different random person do you think they use the same runes and masteries as the person before? Do other moba's like dota 2 have as much skill shot abilities as League? I consider skill shots a dynamic characteristic of this game but not an RNG of course. If you have a burst champ like syndra that has enough damage to 100 - 0 an enemy champ do you think that you'll do it 100% of the time? No, someone like yasou could just windwall your abilities or just use zhonya.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

skill shots have absolutely nothing to do with randomness, thats why they are called skillshot and not randomshot. ofcourse not every randomness uses RNG but whatever, i dont get how this is an argument? skillshots are not RNG. its like saying "omg lucker" when there is no crit involved.

like, getting my abilities windwalled has no thing to do with RNG. the yasuo can windwall them 100% of the time, there is no randomness involved, only his skill. if he does it or not is up to him but he has the option 100% of the time while you dont have the option to crit 100% of the time (except if you have 100% crit chance ofcourse)

also, runes and masteries are not randomness. a player can buy different items too and its not random but decisionmaking. also, i can check his stats when i click on him so its not like i get surprised "oh he has full ad and attackspeed runes so he could all-in me at lvl 2, so randoM!!!!!"

Bluezy1 votes

replace the word randomness with the word dynamic, i apologize since i couldn't find the appropriate word before to use before and may have confused you with what i was trying to express.

For my purposed idea it would be decision making to go scout out towers and decide the lanes also you can right click on the tower to check it stats. WOAH! Making the dragon and baron spawns in either location adds diversity and would separate the good team that checks or the jungler that wards there before hand so they no which is which when it finally spawns. WOAH this randomness is off the charts!

Bluezy1 votes

Instead of the word "randomness" I think dynamic is a more appropriate word that makes much more sense. League of legends is the most dynamic popular moba currently in my opinion and it being dynamic is one of the reasons why its so popular.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

i wouldnt argue with that but it still has nothing to do with randomness while crit absolutely only has to do with randomness and your proposed change absolutely is random too so you cant really argue your way out of it. more randomness = bad.

Bluezy1 votes

Is this an arguement or a conversation? Yeah of course the crit chance is completely random and thats just an example and is not at all what im talking about in my idea. I'm glad you have an opinion on this topic and support you in it. But to say my suggestion for tower positions is a completely bad idea without even trying it or giving it any type of chance is just rude. We have the public beta test ground for a reason. Good day to you sir, please continue being a gentleman and a scholar.

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes

everything completely random is always bad when it comes to competition, there is not even an argument about it. its just BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD. in short: its bad.

your idea is bad because it adds more randomness to the game but the general concept is not that bad so if you would think up an idea that implements your concept of different tower-resistances but make it consistent and not random then it could potentially be cool but as long as it involves randomness, its BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD.

TL;DR: its bad.

Bluezy1 votes

It is not "completely" random at all, there would be a 2 to 1 ration for just the first 2 outer rows. Good day to you

AyRe CoNteMpT1 votes
Bluezy1 votes

Whats the point of having consistent permanent tower placement? Its the same thing we have now and it just leads to predetermined lanes and pigeon holeing champs which what this post is trying to change. Hey....you just had a bad idea...! Have a good new year.

Mettanoia2 votes

Not to be dickish, but I'm gonna pick this apart and try and have a civil discussion.

I feel that physical damage has always been in a much better spot than magic damage with it being able to take objectives and kill enemies.

No, the ad role has always been more linear. They all did the same thing. (Hense the reason for the preseason changes) they are able to deal consistent damage. A side effect of this is that they have siege/ objective control better than those who rely on cooldowns. Also, there are AP champs who have good siege and objective control. (Eg.Azir) As for their being no repercussions for ad heavy teams. Forgive me if I'm wrong, but is armor not one of the easiest stats to get in the game?

About the towers. That idea is insane. Minions don't deal magic damage. What about things like ad mids? Would top be weak to Ad or Ap damage? Mages dont have to be good at everything.

As for the scouting thing. What does that add? What's the point? "I dont like waiting early game" the point of the minions not spawning immediately is to give people time to prepare. Forcing level one teamfights would end up neutering alot of champs (ironically, mostly mages)

The thing about objectives spawning at random, why? The reason rift Herald even put in the game was to add pressure to top, and keep it from being so heavily focused on not side. What your proposing is just going to add confusion.

These changes arnt adding any real strategic depth. It's random, and you're proposing that we figure out it out as we play.

Rng isn't fun, why do you think people hate crit? I think your idea here us that mages are weak right now because they don't have as strong objective control, when it's other factors entirely.

It's 4:30 for me atm and I'm typing on my phone, some stuff might be a little weird sounding I can clarify later should you wish to further this

Bluezy1 votes

Thanks for the constructive feedback! I didn't want my post being a research paper that would scare people away trying to explain every little detail. I'm sure there is a way to make these things work.

No, the ad role has always been more linear. They all did the same thing. (Hense the reason for the preseason changes) they are able to deal consistent damage. A side effect of this is that they have siege/ objective control better than those who rely on cooldowns. Also, there are AP champs who have good siege and objective control. (Eg.Azir)

I don't think the marksmen class is that linear at all or any class for that fact especially their damage with crit chance involved. You have spell caster adc's like Lucian, corki, ezreal. Then the autoattack reliant ones like kalista, twitch and vayne, who all play so differently and have very different impacts.

About the towers. That idea is insane. Minions don't deal magic damage. What about things like ad mids? Would top be weak to Ad or Ap damage? Mages dont have to be good at everything.

You say AP doesn't have to be good at everything then why is AD good at everything? The kill potential and damage dealt by champs ap or ad wouldn't change but the way lanes are decided.

I understand that minions don't do magic damage but what if all minions could deal true damage just to towers where its equal to the damage they do now.

As for the scouting thing. What does that add? What's the point? "I dont like waiting early game" the point of the minions not spawning immediately is to give people time to prepare. Forcing level one teamfights would end up neutering alot of champs (ironically, mostly mages)

I don't think that would be the case at all, and nobody would be forced to do it and they don't have be the ones to do it. But there is initiative to do it and do it as a team. Getting kills level 1 really isn't that simple and you may be overestimating the damage done. Every individual champ has their strong point in the game, some earlier and some later than others.

I think your idea here us that mages are weak right now because they don't have as strong objective control

They're not weak they just don't have as many options like AD users.

I have to disagree with the waiting and preparing point. You already pretty much start preparing at the banning/ picking phase in champ select. Also there is a gate so you can't leave the base right away when you spawn for the first time. Riot not to long ago made it so you get a homeguard boost the beginning of the game in the hope that there would be more fights at level 1 from what i remember reading in a design change post. It didn't change anything at all, people still just wait by there turret or help there jungler.

The rift herald was added to create pressure top, yes. But only because top was so secluded and didn't do much since its one person by themselves far away from there teammates. What if there was only one person bot and the adc and support were top and the rift herald spawned in the bot location. It would be the exact same thing and work out. Just to clarify they aren't spawning at random times, the time they spawn would still be the same just the location is random but set.

Mettanoia1 votes

I don't think the marksmen class is that linear at all or any class for that fact. You have spell caster adc's like Lucian, corki, ezreal. Then the autoattack reliant ones like kalista, twitch and vayne, who all play so differently and have very different impacts.

to be fair, until recently those differences didn't matter much. with a few outliers they all did the same thing, slightly differently, but it was all of them, right click, use spells sometimes. do damage

I understand that minions don't do magic damage but what if all minions could deal true damage just to towers where its equal to the damage they do now.

but is it worth it? you never really answered my question as to why everyone needs to be able to siege well, in fact thats something some champs are intentionally bad at

I have to disagree with the waiting and preparing point. You already pretty much start preparing at the banning/ picking phase in champ select. Also there is a gate so you can't leave the base right away when you spawn for the first time. Riot not to long ago made it so you get a homeguard boost the beginning of the game in the hope that there would be more fights at level 1 from what i remember reading in a design change post. It didn't change anything at all, people still just wait by there turret or help there jungler.

don't forget blind pick exists, and while i agree, by the time the game loads in you should have your shit together, that doesn't mean everyone will. ** "It didn't change anything at all, people still just wait by there turret or help there jungler." ** i disagree with this, deep warding is a common strategy that the homeguard buff supports, and even if it didnt chance anything why is that a bad thing?

The rift herald was added to create pressure top, yes. But only because top was so secluded and didn't do much since its one person by themselves far away from there teammates. What if there was only one person bot and the adc and support were top and the rift herald spawned in the bot location. It would be the exact same thing and work out. Just to clarify they aren't spawning at random times, the time they spawn would still be the same just the location is random but set.

what does this add? variety? are you just bored of the current meta? i dont really get what you want to add here, or frankly speaking why

Bluezy1 votes

to be fair, until recently those differences didn't matter much. with a few outliers they all did the same thing, slightly differently, but it was all of them, right click, use spells sometimes. do damage

You just described every melee/ranged auto attack reliant champ or anyone that just likes to build attackspeed instead of cdr. I'm not sure how recently you're speaking but these differences matter now which you just said and have for a long time in my opinion. We have tristana in which Riot emphasized that she is really good at objecting sieging. Vanye and twitch made to be late game hyper carries basedd on their kit, Draven made to be a early game champ all because of his kit with mostly his (Q) and (W) steroids. Also forgot to add that most marksmen utilize the critical chance stat which makes their damage anything but consistent, and every single champ damage is consistent when it come to towers/turrets because they can't crit structures.

but is it worth it? you never really answered my question as to why everyone needs to be able to siege well, in fact thats something some champs are intentionally bad at

Yes it is worth it. It just gives every champ a fair chance to become able to siege well but doesn't mean they have to or have to be amazing at it. So if an AP champ wanted to be better at sieging structures that champ would want some attack speed instead of cdr, that champ could get Berserkers greaves instead of Sorcerer's or Iucidity for the cdr. How often do you see someone build Nashor's tooth? WIth its a attack speed it could finally have more of a use than just that one item for that specific champ. Not all AD casters are the best at sieging or destroying structures but they are better at it than AP casters while being just as good at killing other champions and clearing waves (example zed).

don't forget blind pick exists, and while i agree, by the time the game loads in you should have your shit together, that doesn't mean everyone will. "It didn't change anything at all, people still just wait by there turret or help there jungler." i disagree with this, deep warding is a common strategy that the homeguard buff supports, and even if it didnt chance anything why is that a bad thing?

Yes blind pick does exist but so does team builder which give people a predetermined lane before anyone even gets into champ select so there isn't any pointless fighting or dodging because someone didn't get there lane. Even in team builder majority of the time its the usual adc/support bot etc. People still deep warded before the buff. Homeguard just made that very boring part of slowing leaving your base less of a nuisance now. It's not a bad thing that it didn't change anything but it wasn't what Riot was seeking and didn't hit its goal and is overall still stale and boring. Watching the LCS its always exciting to see the level 1 team fights and the crowd loves it. People can still do those team fights, maybe not with the same coordination or skill but the same goal in mind.

what does this add? variety? are you just bored of the current meta? i dont really get what you want to add here, or frankly speaking why

Yes it adds variety! Yes I am bored but still love the game! I'm tired by the fact that the position or lane a champion belongs to is determined by their role (excluding junglers). It's the community / player base that are the one's to blame for pigeon holeing the champs like this. The meta has been the same forever all because dragon is closer to bot lane so 2 go bot for dragon control then the other lanes are centered around it. AP champ or any assassin go mid to be able to roam bot / top for help, then the usual bruiser or true tank that may or may not have teleport, and what ever jungler. Thats just the norm which you get majority of the time not a 100% of the time. Riot for a long time use to say "break the meta" or talk about a way to break the meta but just gave up on it since people don't want to since its not as effective with the way things are now. What do I want to add? Everything i said in my purposed ideas is what i want to add. Reread it. Hopefully that doesn't sound aggressive, i mean it with respect lol.

Bluezy1 votes

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