Stormraider's Surge and Strength of the Ages are bad

FancyKiwi·Dec 14, 2015·3 votes·1,595 views

Stormraider's isn't bad but the only champs who can make use of it effectively are assassin champs and if they go 18 deep into Cunning to get it the miss out on the armor or magic pen and Deathfire Touch from Ferocity. If you are going 18 Cunning then why not just get Thunderlord's Decree for more damage. Strength of the Ages is just weak. You get 300 permanent HP that only stacks with siege minions or large jungle monsters. Stacking this takes forever in lane so don't bother and just take Grasp of the Undying. It's not bad on tank junglers but 300hp hardly seems worth a keystone. Both of these need some help to be a competitive pick when compared to the other two keystones they are going up against.

14 Comments

Lost In TimeDec 14, 20153 votes

The fuck?

Assassins LOVE 18 in Cunning. The flat pen is generally better until your opponent has 200 Armor/MR and your target is a squishy that almost never builds defense.

You only need 12 in Ferocity as an Assassin, as that's where all the "increase damage by X%" is.

FancyKiwiDec 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lost In Time,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=47emkxqu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-14T09:53:28.665+0000)

The fuck?

Assassins LOVE 18 in Cunning. The flat pen is generally better until your opponent has 200 Armor/MR and your target is a squishy that almost never builds defense.

You only need 12 in Ferocity as an Assassin, as that's where all the "increase damage by X%" is.

But like I said, even if you do go 18 Cunning, why pick Stormraider's over Thunderlord's?

BluePolarizerDec 14, 20151 votes

strength of ages in the jungle is surprisingly good on tank junglers that need upfront stats. The only thing is the scaling. I'd take it on every tank or bruiser jungler if they raised it to 400 maximum HP.

Critmaster GarenDec 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

strength of ages in the jungle is surprisingly good on tank junglers that need upfront stats. The only thing is the scaling. I'd take it on every tank or bruiser jungler if they raised it to 400 maximum HP.

they should change it to a 10% max health bonus.

especially after veteran scars lost 120 hp if you have 4k health. this would not only mean the missing 100 hp would be added back on deeper in the tree, so health stacking bruisers and tanks dont get hit by the nerf, but it would also buff the keystone to be as strong as the other ones.

WoodakoodashoodaDec 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=47emkxqu,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-12-14T08:16:39.803+0000)

they should change it to a 10% max health bonus.

especially after veteran scars lost 120 hp if you have 4k health. this would not only mean the missing 100 hp would be added back on deeper in the tree, so health stacking bruisers and tanks dont get hit by the nerf, but it would also buff the keystone to be as strong as the other ones.

Something like +0.35% Maximum Health per large monster killed by you or a nearby allied champion and +0.7% max health per siege minion killed by you or a nearby allied champion. Caps at +10% maximum health and additional large monster or siege minion kills by you or a nearby allied champion restores 5% of your maximum health.

The WhamboozlerDec 14, 20151 votes

I fully support this plan! It should stack up tho. It's clearly meant to be a farming tank mastery. Maybe have it add on each large monster, cannon minion, kill or assist?

BluePolarizerDec 14, 20151 votes

10% max HP is terribad. You need 3000 HP already (worth 7000 gold or so of just HP) just to break even.

Critmaster GarenDec 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

10% max HP is terribad. You need 3000 HP already (worth 7000 gold or so of just HP) just to break even.

then take one of the other two. also you just included champion base hp into the gold value. 3000 health isnt difficult to accomplish on tanks or heavy fighters by midgame. and they get up to 4k health lategame.

its supposed to be fo champs who would be really dedicated into stacking health.

meanwhile grasp of the undying and bond of stone are already good on everyone.

BluePolarizerDec 14, 20151 votes

that's true. However you'll still need to spend quite a bit of gold to break even with 300 bonus HP that admittedly you won't stack fully until mid-game anyhow. Even with 1000 bonus HP, most tanks will usually only have 1600-1800 base HP at that point and 1000 bonus HP is something like item 1413 item 3065 which is already quite a bit of gold.

SouL1essDec 14, 20151 votes

Just make it a flat bonus + a percentage bonus as well...

HupsisDec 14, 20151 votes

The last keystone mastery tier in every tree is supposed have at least one option that could be taken by anyone. Strength of ages is resolve tree's go to mastery for anyone that is not primarly a tank. Someone like Bard who doesn't necessarily build a lot of hp still might take strength of ages to give that small boost to his health without having to buy tons of health otherwise.

A marksman or a mage who wants to be a bit more tanky could take it as well if they think they will be more effective with a bit of tankiness. (Graves, Lissandra, Swain?)

I think the mastery could be buffed a bit though but making it scale from max health would only make it viable for health stacking tanks who already have Grasp of the Undying.

Critmaster GarenDec 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

The last keystone mastery tier in every tree is supposed have at least one option that could be taken by anyone. Strength of ages is resolve tree's go to mastery for anyone that is not primarly a tank. Someone like Bard who doesn't necessarily build a lot of hp still might take strength of ages to give that small boost to his health without having to buy tons of health otherwise.

A marksman or a mage who wants to be a bit more tanky could take it as well if they think they will be more effective with a bit of tankiness. (Graves, Lissandra, Swain?)

I think the mastery could be buffed a bit though but making it scale from max health would only make it viable for health stacking tanks who already have Grasp of the Undying.

someone like bard would go bond of stone. its the defensive support mastery in the tree.

why does the resolve tree have a mastery thats good on everyone when ferocity and cunning doesnt? even thunderlords is questionable if you dont stack a ton of ad and ap to get the damage scaling up.

seems to me like resolve is the only tree that makes cuts for tanks and heavy fighters so that squishies can pick up the masteries, but the other 2 trees dont consider tanks or heavy fighters in return.

HupsisDec 14, 20151 votes

Ferocity tree has battle of fervor. Everyone has an auto attack. Obviously it scales better with attack speed which is favoured by marksmen. But tanks could still take it and become pseudo bruisers.

Cunning tree has Thunderlord's which is proc'able by anyone who can auto attack a target three times. I doubt anyone would pick Thunderlord's if they weren't building any ad or ap. A tank could build some offensive stats and make use of the Thunderlord effect.

Tank role is defined by their ability to engage and disrupt enemies while being tanky. Building offensive stats over defensive ones is not optimal but can still happen. Full ap Sejuani with Thunderlord's... wouldn't probably be called a tank.

Critmaster GarenDec 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Ferocity tree has battle of fervor. Everyone has an auto attack. Obviously it scales better with attack speed which is favoured by marksmen. But tanks could still take it and become pseudo bruisers.

Cunning tree has Thunderlord's which is proc'able by anyone who can auto attack a target three times. I doubt anyone would pick Thunderlord's if they weren't building any ad or ap. A tank could build some offensive stats and make use of the Thunderlord effect.

Tank role is defined by their ability to engage and disrupt enemies while being tanky. Building offensive stats over defensive ones is not optimal but can still happen. Full ap Sejuani with Thunderlord's... wouldn't probably be called a tank.

but both fervor and thunderlords dont scale on people who dont build the stats for it.

an assassin/mage who builds more raw ad or ap will get more damage out of thunderlord than a tank. a marksman or attack speed fighter will get more out of fervor than a tank or fighter who stacks health.

but you expect there to be a resolve keystone that doesnt scale and is stat independent so its useful for everyone the same.

when riot designed the masteries they said the resolve tree is mainly designed for juggernauts and tanks, cunning for mages, supports and assassins, and ferocity for marksmen/attack speed fighters and sustained damage casters.

and now with the nerf to veteran scars and with the way strength of the ages is designed theyre changing it to be more attractive for carries. why?

almost all of the ferocity masteries scale. only half of the resolve masteries scale, and theyre even changing some of them like veteran scars to not scale anymore.

resolve has trash like 2hp5 while ferocity has almost a 10% damage increase in its t1 and t2 masteries. actually its more than 10% if you take bounty hunter and get 5 stacks. point is, i dont see a reason to consider anyone but tanks and juggernauts in the resolve tree, when carries already have great masteries dedicated only to them.