So, what excatly is the counterplay to mobility?

Miku Lv99·May 4, 2015·21 votes·2,290 views

I feel like mobility is the lowest counterplay thing currently in the game and as such, the game keeps getting to be less and less counterplay. If they have mobility you have to just stand so far away that they can't just kill you to the point where they can zone you way too far. And in games where your team doesn't ward nearly enough then it becomes not even safe for you to put up wards since they zone you from further than the ward cast range. Then you essentially can't do anything the entire rest of the game and you lose. Yes I know, that's exaggerated, but I really feel like it makes the game more like that than it should be.

Yes I know, it's not op for the pros since they ward and position really well. But even at plat 4, it still feels like no skill freelo. 1 bad player on the opposite team and they just take advantage and win the game most likely just because of it.

59 Comments

SEKAIMay 4, 201537 votes

The actual counter to mobility is lock on spells.

Which has been in the program of systematic removal for some time.

So yeah, the future isn't looking all that promising to be honest.

junglerboy16May 4, 201515 votes

targeted hard CC...

The thing Riot doesn't like because it doesn't have counterplay...

WheatloafMay 4, 20154 votes

They let Ryze keep his because they liked it, so I guess that's something...

junglerboy16May 4, 20151 votes

yeah, there is hope for anti mobility yet!

SinlaireMay 4, 201510 votes

hopefully they dont remove Tarics in his rework. its just about the only hard CC you can reliably land on Kalista as a support.

AshenFoxMay 5, 20151 votes

You.... you didn't read the post on new Taric did you.... :(

JoquanMay 5, 20152 votes

Link?

PartholonianMay 5, 20152 votes

{quoted}

targeted hard CC...

The thing Riot doesn't like because it doesn't have counterplay...

It actually does, though. As long as it is short ranged, it is countered by poke. Almost all targeted spells are quite short ranged compared to most skillshots (there are a few exceptions like Cait ult).

Short range targeted CC wins against dives, but loses to poke. It's actually quite reasonably balanced, if the numbers come out right.

junglerboy16May 5, 20151 votes

I know it does, I was pointing out the irony that the thing with the strongest counterplay to mobility has been generally deemed "no-counterplay" itself (particularly by Riot).

Rand0mH3r0XMay 4, 201512 votes

Believe it or not, Trading. Learning to trade means you can punish your enemy for coming close, and they walk away with a nose bleed. Think about it like this, do boxers constantly have their arms flying at their opponent? No, because their opponent will jab them in the side of the head and TKO them.

You won't always have a flawless victory, but damaging an opponent is better than receiving a lot of damage. Let them throw the first punch, and you can catch them with their bad positioning and knock them out.

TTUPhoenixMay 4, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Believe it or not, Trading. Learning to trade means you can punish your enemy for coming close, and they walk away with a nose bleed. Think about it like this, do boxers constantly have their arms flying at their opponent? No, because their opponent will jab them in the side of the head and TKO them.

You won't always have a flawless victory, but damaging an opponent is better than receiving a lot of damage. Let them throw the first punch, and you can catch them with their bad positioning and knock them out.

This. Also, knowing the cooldowns/availability of their movement spells. For example, I was laning against a Lucian a few days ago as Quinn. I got an early lead, and while Lucian has greater mobility (Relentless Pursuit is manaless, compared to Vault, which costs mana, and is free targeted) he wasn't able to use it. If he tried to dash in to poke or get into a fight, I could engage on him with AAs, Blinding Assault and Vault, and I knew that his dash wouldn't be up in time for him to get back out without taking a lot of damage. As a result, he couldn't use his mobility to engage without getting punished. While he could still save his dash to escape, that's still a win - if he's forced to dash away from me, my support and I could aggress on him while his dash was down, or I could just take the chance to farm while he was zoned out.

BluePolarizerMay 4, 20153 votes

Trading is for lane. What about teamfights? Just lost a game against Karma Skarner Ahri Sivir Blitzcrank because every time we engaged, they disengaged with their AOE team mobility and then came back when our stuff was on CDs. Our team was a full on hard engage team and still lost. Completely bullshit team comps like that and JarvanIV Gragas Ahri Kalista Thresh where you can't touch them if they don't want you to, but they can delete anyone, is just stupid to play against.

SammystormMay 4, 20151 votes

the majority of that team comp had very little mobility.

pro crastinat0rMay 4, 20157 votes

Karma aoe speed boost Sivir aoe speed boost Skarner massive personal speed boost Ahri personal speed boost and triple dash Blitzcrank usually builds item 3069

AshenFoxMay 5, 20151 votes

So... what you're saying is that the enemy team took a page from King Arthur and his Knights of the Round Table? Especially Sir Robin?

JoquanMay 5, 20151 votes

Then you realize they have karma top and you still lost, that's you and your junglers fault.

BluePolarizerMay 5, 20151 votes

is Karma top supposed to be easy to gank or something LOL

JoquanMay 5, 20151 votes

When Jarvan is on your team, yes.

BluePolarizerMay 5, 20151 votes

was an example of another bullshit mobility comp. No J4 on our team. Karma top is pretty hard to gank in any case with an AOE speedup and a melee range root.

JoquanMay 5, 20151 votes

Oh, so you made up a story that never happened and then you say you lost? Okay.

If you see they have a lot of mobility pick people with catch like ahri/j4/liss/blitz/braum/vi/leona

BluePolarizerMay 5, 20151 votes

it is in my match records of going against such a 1st team, but not with the other example team. I think you have a problem with English. I suggest tutoring for that.

JoquanMay 5, 20151 votes

I read too quickly, and thought you lost a normal game with gragas/j4/ahri/rest.

No need to be an asshole.

MatezoideMay 4, 20154 votes

More mobility, obviously!

goldensilver09May 4, 20152 votes

Taric's E. They can't say no to the Rape when Stunned.

junglerboy16May 4, 201512 votes

dude, Taric is a gentleman, all he ever does when they are stunned is maul them with his hammer while his ADC shoots them to death.

TheFancySkeletonMay 4, 20152 votes

Taric They can't say no when they are stunned.

junglerboy16May 5, 20154 votes

did you even read the comment I was responding to? Redundant and missing the point of my statement.

Daedalus871May 5, 20152 votes

Taric : The can't saw no when they're so dazzled.

KalarepaMay 4, 20152 votes

Just count the number of champions with gap closers, next time you watch tournament game. It will be at least 7, while the other 1-3 ones will either be supports or someone with ridiculously long range, like Xerath or Kog.

Shrek LuigiMay 4, 20152 votes

Tankiness is a good counterplay to mobility. The more mobilty a champion has in their kit/has invested in through movespeed items, the less they've invested in either sustain or damage-output, giving beefy champions who can hold their own the competitive edge. That's my opinion, at least--there's definitely exceptions but I think it's fairly accurate.

lB2kGRlc8yMay 4, 20151 votes

I think he means mobility like riven and ahri, the kind of shit thats dual purpose and removes the need for mobility items.

Shrek LuigiMay 4, 20151 votes

who better to stand up to either of those champions than one who's been building up their resistances, though? idk it's just my two cents but the tanky bruiser-types, i've found, are the ones that can take them down most effortlessly provided your build is solid and the enemy isn't incredibly fed :)

BluePolarizerMay 4, 20152 votes

Nope you're wrong. Ahri can even kite and kill (while taking zero damage) bruiser build Master Yi which not even Vayne or Kalista can do. That's how fking ridiculous her mobility combined with hard CC is.

Original QuitterMay 4, 20151 votes

Tankiness IS THE COUNTER that is why it was buffed to the point it is now.

What ended league of assasins, well that would be league of tanks

Meep ManMay 4, 20151 votes

Crowd control that is instant or undodgable... or you are Azir. So, therefore, the following champions have a direct way to deal with mobility, although some can be 1000% better than others at doing it:

Alistar Amumu Annie Azir Chogath Diana Fiddlesticks Galio Garen Hecarim Irelia Kennen ? LeeSin Leona Lissandra Lulu Malzahar Maokai Pantheon Poppy Quinn Rammus RekSai Renekton Riven Ryze Skarner Soraka Syndra Taric Thresh Tristana TwistedFate Udyr Urgot Vayne Veigar ? Volibear Warwick Zac

There is also some other champions that have spells that have good anti-mobility and I put ? past Kennen and Veigar since they technically have mobility denial, but in out of ordinary ways that some might not consider anti-mobility or only halfway fit anti-mobility.

PerishSoftlyMay 5, 20151 votes

Of the ones you listed: Azir has mobility himself through his E Diana has mobility through R (and technically her Q as well) Fiddle has a blink on his ult Hecarim has a monstrous self-speed buff and a leap engage Irelia has a gap-closer that resets on killing the target Kennen has a self-speed boost Lee Sin is the actual poster child for mobility Lissandra has Frozen Path Maokai has Twisted Advance Quinn has Vault Rammus has Powerball, THE defining self-speed buff Rek'sai has tunnels and her ultimate Renekton has Slice and Dice Riven has... you know what? She has whatever she wants Tristana has rocket jump #resets Vi has Vault Breaker and her ult Warwick has his ult Zac has Elastic Slingshot

So....a lot of, if not most of the champions listed that counter mobility also have mobility themselves. Problem much?

Solidair3May 4, 20151 votes

lock down is the counterplay.

Malz ult, stuns, etc.

g07h4xf00May 4, 20151 votes

Maokai W

/thread

AelvrMay 4, 20151 votes

imho:

If you are talking about mobility in teamfights, then the counter is hard cc that is difficult to dodge, like Malphite's ultimate, Ryze's rune prison, Morgana's ult, &c. Even Kalista can be wombo-comboed, and if you have a lot of cc, then Fizz can't dodge it all.

If you are talking about mobility across the map (a character being everywhere at once), then the counterplay during laning phase is adjusted and more diligent warding. Kassadin can be fast, but if he can't kill you (because you're under turret), it doesn't matter as much. During mid-late game, the answer is safety in numbers. one or two of the enemies can be everywhere, but the rest of their team can't. You should be able to steamroll over the few enemies who resist you and take turrets faster than any split-pushers, or start roaming as a group if you have to stop them.

In short, the wombo-combo comp should be able to deal with mobility reliably, assuming everybody synergizes.

SolusInCadereMay 5, 20151 votes

While the only direct, "tangible" counter to mobility (besides mobility, uv course), is lock on CC.

But, you can mitigate the effects of mobility by adjusting your playstyle. Poke when they can't dodge it, or use a weak poke to bait the mobility, then follow up with a stronger poke (if possible). Someone below me mentioned proper trading, and I will encourage readers to look for that comment

Also, tankiness was mentioned below, and this is true. Punish them for dashing toward you by soaking up their damage and follow up with your own. Generally speaking, mobility is a champion's defense, if they have it.

As for team fight focused teams with massive disengage to pop the enemy cool downs, just don't team fight unless their disengage costs them an objective (dragon, etc), instead, roam as a group and take towers faster than them. If they appear to defend, shove lane then move on.

PartholonianMay 5, 20151 votes

I think it's intended that the counter to mobility is superior damage and/or tankiness. So they can run away from you, but they can ONLY run away from you, because if they try to get close, you will wreck them. Then you can bully them off objectives, take the objectives, and repeat until your team wins.

Morde does this sometimes, for example. Other times mobile people gang up on him and get him behind until he can't do it anymore, and then he is useless.

Jungle Lux GodMay 5, 20151 votes

The counterplay to mobility is books, because you read them.

When you are capable of good reads, you are then capable of countering mobility by reading where they will move to with their mobility spell, and will therefore remove any sort of counterplay restrictions against mobility that mobility abilities have.

Mecha MaIphiteMay 5, 20151 votes

Just one-shot them. Veigar

Dunkrius2gMay 5, 20151 votes

item 3800

GottaGoToSpaceMay 5, 20151 votes

If you're playing against a mobile champion and you have a dodgeable skill you essentially have to treat each champion like they only have 3 abilities. Depending whether you're stronger with that tradeoff you should either force an advantage in trades or all ins or try to bait out their mobility. If you're good enough at putting pressure on them and preventing purely reactive use of mobility you can also turn the skillshot into a matter of who predicts the other better.

Epilogue of LifeMay 5, 20151 votes

By the time Talon lost his silence, it has become League of Jumping Around Like A Squirrel On Mountain Dew.

AshenFoxMay 5, 20151 votes

Greater mobility, Lock Down ('Hard' CC effects that prevent movement and are usually point and click as opposed to skill shots), and Burst/Assassination.