Rickles ruined Aatrox with the mini rework, here is why and what should be done when they rework him

Troxic··8 votes·625 views

Remember, they had to buff him THREE immediately times after the mini rework because they were so far off in their estimation of the effects of their changes. Were I come from, that's called incompetence.

The window of power concept ruined his passive, and his is not really any more powerful now (he used to do magic damage with his E and more damage with his W). His passive is harder to get up, making him easier to tower dive as well. All they really had to do was leave him as he was, give him the 40 or 50 hp they gave him, lower the CD on his dive like they did and make it unstoppable on its descent. Thats it. No one wanted to change his health cost concept. What was needed was flat costs, increasing with level even, instead of percentages that punished building health.

But see, they clearly weren't even thinking on this level or cared about what players said about it. With disgusting egoism and incompetence Rickles plowed forwarded making Aatrox even harder to play, pulling his build path in even more directions.

Right now, I think something like item 3046 item 3111 item 3022 item 3156 item 3026 item 3071 is pretty decent--every time is working to increase his defense and damage, the end result is a build where you probably wont carry, and it might suck if the enemy team is tanky and your teamates cant do enough damage, but it allows you to pretty good in most situation while being pretty hard to kill. Combine with fervor and the damage is plenty.

So what should happen?

1)Aatrox needs a hard CC that isn't linked to his only movement ability, his dive. 2)He needs to scale off of 2 or less stats. Right now he needs health, damage, attack speed an even CD to an extent to be functional. 3)Many champs have a built in way to increase their movement speed or super mobile abilities. Aatrox should probably not knock up champs on landing, but rather upon landing increase his tenacity and movement speed for a few seconds, slowing enemies nearby who are in the impact zone. His hard CC should be moved to a function of an E in some fashion. 4)His ult is boring. Either it should be a strong team fight ult that buffs himself and nearby allies or something different such as giving him an empowered Q and E during the ult, while buffing his damage or healing from his W (such as once every 2 hits instead of 3).

Anyways those are my general ideas for making him more interesting.

22 Comments

TheHappyReaperz4 votes

I have a feeling this post was upvoted just becuase people don't like Rickless. Regardless, having to change a champion after you rework half their kit, where I come from, is called experimentation, as success requires experimentation.

His passive was changed to make him have more counterplay, and make using it more than just have it up any time you are in lane. And with that, Riot succeeded. Aatrox has clearer windows of power , and there is more for an enemy champion to play around.

I wanted to change his health cost concept. You know whats fun? Comboing your abilities, and losing 15% of your current health, and then the AD scaling cost of your W making you lose even more health. I can accept a static health cost on his E, and maybe even a static health cost on his W, provided the damage is compensated for it, but there is literally no reason for a health cost on his Q.

I feel Riot's work on Aatrox was done pretty well. When he came out and was weak, Riot was waiting in the wings with buffs for him, instead of just leaving him to suffer. While some players may have felt like Riot ignored what they wanted, that's becuase any change to a champion isn't going to appease everyone.

With regard to changes for his GU, Aatrox doesn't need more hard CC. He's not a tank, and if you give another form of hard CC, he will be a tank. His Q is fine for CC, and it puts some thought into using it, as you trade mobility or escape for CC. I'm fine with Aatrox's ratio's being simplified. Aatrox does not need Tenacity on his Q. That's just some strange thinking. Its already a mobility spell, he doesn't need a mobility spell that makes him more mobile/resistant to CC. Finally, I agree with the ult. It should be something more interesting.

Troxic2 votes

HE ALREADY HAD COUNTER PLAY. IT was called ANY HARD CC OR ATTACK SPEED REDUCTION. He already had a window of power, when his Bloodwell was full he had more attack speed and more health upon reviving. Not complicated.

"that's becuase any change to a champion isn't going to appease everyone." Everyone? Try NO ONE. They appeased NO one. Only Aatrox mains cared about the changes, and they all hated them.

I never said MORE hard CC. I said move it to his E and get rid of if for his dive. Can you read? Its the same god damn amount of CC. Why are you responding if you didn't even read what I wrote. If are you just going to rush through a post so you can give you 2 cents, do the world a favor, and don't. Right now he has ONE hard CC, a 1 second knock up and ONE slow. My proposal is still the same amount of CC.

Good lord. Just...go away.

TheHappyReaperz2 votes

If you're an Aatrox main, and I assume you are, then you should know that the only time you should ever have your Bloodwell empty is when you just arrived in lane, or just revived. Aatrox's Bloodwell wasn't a window of power, it was a buff you stacked and kept full.

As an Aatrox main, I can say that I actually liked the changes. I much prefer the current Aatrox to old Aatrox. Are there some more changes I'd like to see? Sure, but the current one suits me pretty well.

From your first point, in which you stated, "Aatrox needs a hard CC that isn't linked to his only movement ability", I assumed that you meant he would keep the hard CC on his dive, and add more elsewhere. You did state otherwise in your third point, but the lack of cohesion between your points muddled my understanding of whatever the hell you were trying to get across. Regardless of that, you never clarified if you wanted all of these changes, or some of them, only ever saying "Anyways those are my general ideas for making him more interesting".

Anyway, as the cheerful embodiment of the impending doom that awaits everyone, I cannot go away. Thus I persist, waiting in the shadows, like a Koala, hanging from a tree. When you least expect me I shall be there, a light in the night, a bear on the stairs, and a chicken in your living room. https://i.giphy.com/media/3oKIP8Eg8l52mZ4i7m/giphy.gif

Troxic1 votes

First of all why does he need a window of power? Where did this come from. He already had a bad win rate. Why did they feel the need to make him easier to counter??? Does Jax have a window of power? Yi? Sure they have ults and so does Aatrox, lasts a finite amount of time. Why is Aatrox shit on then?

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

Jax is stronger when his counterstrike is active, and weaker when it isn't. Master Yi is stronger when he's meditating, or in alpha, but weaker when he isn't. Windows of power my man, they add counterplay to champions. With Aatrox, while they made him easier to counter, they made him stronger as well, as his win rate is the highest its been in years. Aatrox is hardly "shit on". Riot has been buffing him until he is in a good spot, and that's only the band-aid until his GU happens.

Troxic1 votes

What, when he Alphas? Its a second long move, its not a god damn window. What is wrong with you?

No hes NOT in a good spot. Hes the only ONLY top laner that you will EVER see who has NOT ONE of the god damn following: Build in crits, built in armor pen, true damage, bleed, shield or parry, build in resistances or tenacity, built in way to increase movement speed or frequent dash, or meangingful magic damage. Hes the most bare bones champion in he game. Wake up dude.

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

Aatrox is in a good spot. He has a frequent dash, multiple AS steroids, multiple AD steroids, a knock up, and a slow, as well as a revive that refreshes his passive steroids. What about that is barebones?

Troxic1 votes

He doesnt have mulitple AD steroids. He has one. Need I say it again, he is the only top laner that lacks all all of these things"

  1. a shield 2)A block or parry or spell shield 3)True damage 4)significant magic damage 5)Armor pen or shred 6)Bleed or Burn 7)built in crits 8)Built in resistances 9)built in percent of health damage 10)a way to boost his movement speed

The other top laners have at least one or more of things...but guess what, they nearly all have most of what Aatrox has--a frequent dash, a way to heal, a way to boost their damage, or attack speed.

Troxic1 votes

Windows of power is made up term used to justify stupid changes. Its not a window when you are doing a move, its just doing a move. Every champion innately has windows of power, its called when their shit is not on cool down. Nasus has a clear window, when he ults, but champs dont need to have a clear window to counter them.

Look, at this point, its pretty sad you are trying to defend what they did to Aatrox. He is overally weaker, BECAUSE

1)even though hellbent gives him more AD, he loses out on the incremental attack speed of the old blood well 2)His Blood Price used to do more damage 3)His E used to do magic damage 4)His revive was always ready 5)His heal used to scale of AD and was MUCH stronger.

The life costs associated with his moves was twat made him interesting, you had to make judgement calls when to heal or when to deal damage. That was the trade off for having massive heals.

I just don't get why you are trying to argue this. You are wrong on every level here.

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

Every champion innately has windows of power, its called when their shit is not on cool down.

Okay? Regardless, if Aatrox is so much weaker than he used to be, how come his win rate is higher?

Troxic1 votes

Higher? Before the mini rework it was around 49%. It is still around 49%.

TheDevice1 votes

{quoted}

I have a feeling this post was upvoted just becuase people don't like Rickless. Regardless, having to change a champion after you rework half their kit, where I come from, is called experimentation, as success requires experimentation.

His passive was changed to make him have more counterplay, and make using it more than just have it up any time you are in lane. And with that, Riot succeeded. Aatrox has clearer windows of power , and there is more for an enemy champion to play around.

I wanted to change his health cost concept. You know whats fun? Comboing your abilities, and losing 15% of your current health, and then the AD scaling cost of your W making you lose even more health. I can accept a static health cost on his E, and maybe even a static health cost on his W, provided the damage is compensated for it, but there is literally no reason for a health cost on his Q.

I feel Riot's work on Aatrox was done pretty well. When he came out and was weak, Riot was waiting in the wings with buffs for him, instead of just leaving him to suffer. While some players may have felt like Riot ignored what they wanted, that's becuase any change to a champion isn't going to appease everyone.

With regard to changes for his GU, Aatrox doesn't need more hard CC. He's not a tank, and if you give another form of hard CC, he will be a tank. His Q is fine for CC, and it puts some thought into using it, as you trade mobility or escape for CC. I'm fine with Aatrox's ratio's being simplified. Aatrox does not need Tenacity on his Q. That's just some strange thinking. Its already a mobility spell, he doesn't need a mobility spell that makes him more mobile/resistant to CC. Finally, I agree with the ult. It should be something more interesting.

Just curious... Does that make Riven a tank?

Riven has 2 forms of area hard cc. she a tank?

TheHappyReaperz1 votes

Riven can be a tank, remember CoC Riven? Currently, she isn't since playing her as a tank isn't as good as playing her as a fighter.

Jesus Is My King3 votes

rickless has destroyed too many champions, making the game unplayable with anything he touches

Troxic2 votes

Yup. He's completely not qualified to be doing his job. I wonder who he knows or whos...ya know, hes sucking.

Crett1 votes

i feel like the proposed changes would really hit his counterplay hard. in any case, they removed any cost on all his abilities except a small flat health cost on his E, making him not punished for building health at all; and in fact, they rewarded it by making his heals and revive passive scale with his health.

he's opened up his build path with a LOT of free damage if he can survive long enough, and personally i think he only needs one or two damage items to be effective. (either item 3078 or item 3153, imo trinity force is the better of the two in every way, wasted mana or no)

i've had great games with builds like this, sometimes taking on the entire enemy team and surviving item 3078 item 3065 item 3047 item 3143 item 3193

embrace tanky aatrox. it will free you

additionally, i think you're really hating on the designer too hard. this is a temporary rework while they wait to do heavier work on him. this is an extremely good band-aid if you ask me

Troxic2 votes

I'm not, Rickles is a total piece of shit. They were so out of line they had to do 3 buffs in a row. Thats how poorly he understood the champion, meanwhile Aatrox mains were like....are you serious, hes going to be awful, and he was. You shouldn't be allowed to work on a champion that you have no fucking idea what hes all about. His win rate is not any better right now, they may as well just left him as he was. Total waste of time and energy on their part just to keep Aatrox sucking.

Crett1 votes

all i'm really hearing is that you hate the designer. designers don't often give the final word on a kit's numbers, that's up to the balancing team, and balance they did. i really enjoy aatrox's kit right now, especially as a holdover for a later rework and i feel they addressed a lot of his problems, especially the thing where he kinda liked having health but was punished by building it because of %health costs and flat AD healing making it proportionally less effective. they filled out his issues with wanting every stat by adding a ton of attack speed and a nice AD boost inherently to his kit, and rewarding him for lasting long enough to take advantage of it. i responded to that change by building item 3078 and then full tank and it is extremely solid if you ask me. and yeah they made his Q harder to interrupt.

it's not perfect, but i think the changes were not completely uninformed, and i strongly feel they don't warrant all this vitriol. it's not disrespectful at all to disagree with a designer's choices, but there's no need to get hostile over aatrox getting an attempt at meaningful attention before they give him a proper kit overhaul

Troxic2 votes

Also, Trinity force is super expensive. You would actually deal more damage and have more defense when dueling by grabbing a item 3046

Crett1 votes

missing out on AD, CDR, health, build path and very meaningful burst damage imo, and aatrox often doesnt just get to deal with one champion. i don't think phantom dancer is a bad purchase, but it's definitely not a one-stop to fill out aatrox's needs and baselines. i think TF's cost is balanced out by the very good items it builds from keeping the power curve smooth

Jinzo Torrance1 votes

Rickle ruined the umpteenth champion? Who would've though of that?

Troxic2 votes

Right? And he gets paid to do it. What slimy piece of shit he is.

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