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Two champions who, in my opinion, are not fufilling their side role as Riot suggested.

SleepyWolfie··4 votes·628 views
Champion.gg - Kog'Maw ADC Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

So before mentioning these two champions who I believe are not fufilling their role, there are many, MANY other champions who need changes much more badly than these two, (e.g Taric of course). However these two could be "fixed" with sligh changes in order for them to fufill their "side role", and besides both are dominating the meta in their main role. These two champions are Kog´Maw and Kalista.

Also by "side role" I mean: E.g: Quinn: ADC, side role would be the "Roaming ADC" thanks to her ultimate, etc. E.g 2: Graves: ADC, Side role would be the "Bruiser ADC" thanks to his "tanky" capabilities and his mid ranged AA and abilities.

Kog´Maw:

Side role objective: The Hypercarry ADC that needs great peel from allies. Kog´Maw is supposed to have a interesting gameplay involving his teamates a lot. In orded to succeed these champion needs to stay far and deal damage whenever is possible (and by that when he is safe), he will be a primary target for enemy Bruisers and assassins and his team will need to protect him from them.

Why I think this isnt happening: Riot has made recent changes to Kog´Maw since the big preseason patch, and I was astounded by the changes to Kog´Maw. Im talking about mainly the change from Q passive to the W ability. Everyone Maxes the W ability, therefore has more attk speed early-mid game, as a result this champion has a BIG powerspike in the early-mid game. This is not what a hypercarry is, a Hypercarry should be weak or very weak in the early and be able to scale fantastically to the late game. Ive been checking Kog´Maw stats, and the proof is there: Of 43,000 matches analyzed Kog´Maw has a 58% of Win rate in matches with duration of 0-25 minutes and decays to 52% in 40+ minute matches. By the way, the Win rate is big because he was recently overbuffed, however this shows that he is not fufilling his side role of THE hypercarry ADC. Link of this proof: http://champion.gg/champion/KogMaw.

How to solve it: By the way, im not 100% sure how to solve this appropiately because im not a game designer. Im trying to communicate this and why I think its not right. All i can say that recent Kog´Maw changes are controversial to what Riot said at first hand how would this champion be played as. That minimum dmg from W and the extra attk speed as apassive moved from Q to W are Early game improvements, this champion should have Late game improvements.

Kalista:

Not gonna lie, this one im not too sure if she should be changed much. Im making this post primarily for Kog´Maw, but I decided to drop Kalista in because i feel something is off in her.

Side role objective (I suppose): The "Duo" ADC. A champion that is successful by playing well with its bot lane companion, good synergy between Kalista and her bot lane companion (being a support, or whatever) is what defines her and will bring them to victory in the bot lane.

Why I think this isnt happening: I think this has happened for a long time now, almost since release. This champion IMO doesnt feel like good synergy provides her TOO much. I just played a match with Kalista, and I realized that even without much synergy with my bot laner we were able to win easily. So I figured that maybe something should be changed around here. I feel like the pact mechanic isnt as important as it should be.

This is pure feels, i have no proof at all. I just FEEL THIS WAY when i play her.

How to solve it (sorta): I think her passive is very strong, maybe tone it down a bit and tone up the synergy abilities or adding a new mechanic to them (W and R), I also feel like Q is kiiiinda useless, or just not important. i just use it to sooometimes harrass, escape by jumping walls and (the main usage) to catch off an enemy and continue my Passive chain. Well im not sure what else to include :P.

10 Comments

SirPurrr1 votes

I miss AP Kog mid the most. I don't care about him as an ADC. The reworked screwed the old poke Kog style.

SleepyWolfie1 votes

I didnt like to play him mid much. Although I do share your feelings for old kog maw! I love to kite, thats why I main ADC role and play ADC like champs. But i cant kite anymore :( not fun.

SleepyWolfie1 votes

Point is: If Riot is going to give an identity to Kog maw, atleast support it. Make him an ACTUAL Hypercarry playstyle, not a 0-25 minutes in 58% win rate :P.

Leu071 votes

Vayne is supposed to be a late hypercarry too yet she is strong at all stages of the game, why kog cant be so too?

SleepyWolfie1 votes

{quoted}

Vayne is supposed to be a late hypercarry too yet she is strong at all stages of the game, why kog cant be

The point of this post is not strength, much less compartively to other champions (although i do think Kog is overbuffed right now), but the meaning of this post is riots precious identity. Vayne does act as a Hypercarry, she has a very weak early game (I dissapprove what you said that she is strong at all stages in the game) that slowly improves to mid game and ends up great in the late game. Proof: http://champion.gg/champion/Vayne/ADC (check her Win rate% by game length, also notice that around 92,000 games were analyzed this patch).

However look back at Kog´Maws Win rate % by game length, it descends the longer games go. That being said, Kog´Maw is the contrary to a hypercarry. And thats the identity Riot has been trying to give him! Proof: http://champion.gg/champion/KogMaw/ADC .

That justifies my opinion, have a good day :)

Leu071 votes

And I disagree that vayne has a weak early too. Kog is just FOTM right now to me.

Erockandroll1 votes

{quoted}

Vayne is supposed to be a late hypercarry too yet she is strong at all stages of the game, why kog cant be so too?

The difference is, Kog is actually drawing LCS bans. If he's strong in the LCS, and he's complained about in YoloQ, chances are, he's simply too strong.

As for Kog's scaling, He probably should scale a little faster than before. (As riot intended for shorter games.) Though I would honestly look at rageblade first. (As Kog isn't the only one abusing it.)

Not sure what happened to AP Kog. one of the Rioter's mentioned putting power back into his ult. (Not sure why we got the AS changes instead.) Perhaps Riot wanted to target ADC Kog first. Or perhaps they just don't like AP Kog's play style. (Ult combined with Rylie's is pretty annoying.)

But given the new rage blade, and his AS steroid, I'm surprised people haven't considered the Hybrid option. Rage blade generates a fair amount AP. combined that with Tooth, and you should have good damage on both your spells, and your autos, while not being quite as mana hungry as Classic AP Kog.

Miraweave1 votes

In what universe is Quinn an adc?

She plays top and occasionally mid.

SleepyWolfie1 votes

{quoted}

In what universe is Quinn an adc?

She plays top and occasionally mid.

facepalm There are two things to notice in this game: Roles and starting positions.

Roles are well.... roles you will fufill during a match. For example, ADCs are champions who just scale better with attack damage into the late game and are meant to carry, generally (if not always) use Auto Attacks to do so.

Starting positions are which lane you are going, Jungle, bot or mid.

The meta since season 1 or so has stapled ADCs in the botlane along with a support, this does NOT mean that ADCs should only go bot lane. ADC role can exist in every place, as you see Jhin in the mid lane or Kindred in the jungle, they still scale well for the late game and utilize their Auto Attacks to dish out maximum damage.

ALSO Quinn is played in bot lane, only not as much as in other roles.

Tl;DR: Roles =/= Starting position

Miraweave1 votes

{quoted}

facepalm There are two things to notice in this game: Roles and starting positions.

Roles are well.... roles you will fufill during a match. For example, ADCs are champions who just scale better with attack damage into the late game and are meant to carry, generally (if not always) use Auto Attacks to do so.

Starting positions are which lane you are going, Jungle, bot or mid.

The meta since season 1 or so has stapled ADCs in the botlane along with a support, this does NOT mean that ADCs should only go bot lane. ADC role can exist in every place, as you see Jhin in the mid lane or Kindred in the jungle, they still scale well for the late game and utilize their Auto Attacks to dish out maximum damage.

ALSO Quinn is played in bot lane, only not as much as in other roles.

Tl;DR: Roles =/= Starting position

Quinn's almost never played in bot lane except by people who don't know what they're doing. Gameplay wise she's much closer to being an assassin than an ADC.

She doesn't fill the role of an ADC because she tries to get to priority targets and ideally wants to splitpush. She's almost never played as a backline DPS source.

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