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@CertainlyT Can you please Focus on Mid Lane Zyra?

Hex the FenFen··55 votes·3,031 views

Hey! With the upcoming changes to Zyra I am happy that you are fixing her plant AI, this will help a lot. But I also fear with the utility buff, even though it can help with her mid lane kill potential, I fear this is still forcing her into the bot lane support role. Players, LCS and Casual alike, tend to take champions with a lot of CC into the support role and keep them there. I fear focusing more on Zyra's utility will further force her bot lane when her true lane is mid. I main her Mid Lane and I love her, so I don't want this awkward balance between support and mid because then she will never truly be able to shine as a mid laner. She will end up sacrificing more as a mid laner just to balance her role as a support.

I know a lot of people play her as a support and that is great...as an actual side option. Right now you all are basically telling people she is a support with her recommended items being spellthief's edge. I know you do not want her being a monster in the bot lane but why do we have to hurt her true role as well? Annie, Vel'koz and Brand are all endorsed as support by Riot but they haven't been nerfed to suit that role, their items have not been changed to show they are viable for support as well and they are still contested picks for mid, so why is Zyra being singled out as the only monster for support? Those mages are also monsters but they are allowed to keep their mid lane damage and potential while slaughtering squishy ADC's bot lane. The thing with those mages though are that support ARE SIDE OPTIONS, ACTUAL SIDE OPTIONS. I feel like with Zyra you guys are enforcing support as her primary with APC being her side option.

So please, from a Zyra main who loves her so much as a Mid Lane Mage, focus on her mid lane. Don't give her the short end because her side role might become too strong....that isn't fair to her as a champion and the people who play her mid and want to continue to do so with more reliable success.

Thank you and thank you for creating her!!

56 Comments

bad manner kid15 votes

Every third plant or Zyra auto attack on the same enemy automatically plants a seed behind the enemy. If they step on it, it does 5% max hp true damage. This seed can be used to create plants.

Zyra's plants are now contestable objectives. If your enemy kills them, the plants give 15g and become vision for the enemy for 30 seconds. If the plants survive or are killed by a minion, they now explode and ignore 50% magic penetration on detonation.

LankPants21 votes

max hp true damage

can we not?

bad manner kid18 votes

{quoted}

can we not?

he asked for a CertainlyT rework

Hex the FenFen6 votes

Haha I didn't ask for a rework and that isn't what I am asking. I am just asking CertainlyT to focus on her mid lane over her support lane because she IS a mid laner. I mean she does need some things to make her better for mid lane like a new passive and maybe some duration changes or missile speed, but not a total rework

A Miss Fortune4 votes

Imagine Zyra's plants dashing around the map too.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

The counter to it is targeted CC. We removed it. Good luck.

SpongebobIsLife2 votes

only problem I see with this, is that this would cause major community backlash, because here we go again with the 3 strike proc thing AND the max %hp true damage. Plus that wouldn't help mid zyra, that would only make support zyra more viable actually sinc eshe can still do a lot of damage with little items.

Mr Broken Wings12 votes

I agree, midlane zyra is more fun to play.

Hex the FenFen9 votes

And it is her intended role. That was what she was released to do. So i hope they focus more on mid lane Zyra than support Zyra...

StellarPrime1 votes

{quoted}

And it is her intended role. That was what she was released to do. So i hope they focus more on mid lane Zyra than support Zyra...

This is what the general consensus is coming from any and all Zyra players. Riot has told us that Zyra could use some love. I am pleased with the Plant a.i. changes; they feel more responsive and she feels like she has more zone control like she should. The least Riot could do is provide us with some context as to what role they're really pushing with her. Are they trying to leave it open ended with her? 

 I also was REALLY disappointed when her recommended starting item became a spellthief's edge :( It only makes sense for her to be oriented towards AP mid from a thematic sense, she's Riot's premiere Nature Mage. It makes no sense for support to be the primary role played with her. It doesn't mesh/fit/feel right when u have this ancient being in lore whose title is Rise of the Thorns being recommended a support item as a starting item.
OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Why does the premiere Water Mage support? Nami

Sound Mage? Sona

Celestial Mage? Soraka

Cuz mages can support too.

Hex the FenFen1 votes

Because they were intended to be supports from the start. Their themes also convey this. Nami wanted to help her people, Sona is a musician and is a warm hearted, caring person, Soraka loves helping people. Zyra isn't any of these things she is a predator, a killer by nature.

ZeichiVos2 votes

You don't need to be designed for the support role to play support, nor are all support champs confined to the bot lane.

And if you want to talk about lore for the support role, you can't just ignore thresh.

Zavern1 votes

She was literally designed for the mid lane though. The only reason she is played as a support now is because they nerfed her damage to the level that she can only be played as a support.

ZeichiVos2 votes

I'd say high base damages and synergy with item 3303 go a long way to bringing her bot as well. If it was all about her utility, we'd see a lot more Lux support. As it is, her cc is a semi-reliable snare and a melee slowing plant, plus her awesome ult. As awesome as her ult is, I'm not sure it puts her on the same level as the cc of many tank supports, and the disengage/sustain of something like a Janna or Soraka. I play her bot because I have just enough cc to peel, while still being able to do a ton of damage so long as I don't fall behind. If I wanted her as a support for her cc alone, I'd just take Janna instead.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Sona Nami were both intended to be mid as well but are now played solely as supports and accepted as such.

Know anyone else like this? Oh that's right, Zyra. A true support.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

after her nerf riot just pushed her to a support i mean don't get me wrong zyra is just as annoying as heimer during ateamfight she just spam all skills press zhonyas kill 1 target then continuously provide utility

Hullabaloo9074 votes

high utility doesnt always mean support. Look at Lulu.

Old Man Teeto3 votes

"Intended Lane"

Annie was meant for mid-lane, is now an accepted support.

Morganna was meant for mid-lane, is now an accepted support.

Lulu was meant to be a support, is now an accepted solo laner.

Alistar has done every role in the game competitively at some point, yes even ADC.

Mordekaiser was a solo-lane champion, reworked into an ADC position.

Tell me more about your "Intended Lane"...

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

I really don't know where he is getting this "true nature" stuff from. She was intended as a support/mid and is now a support. How the hell is mid her true lane??

Done252 votes

Rather than focus on forcing her into the "middle" lane, I would prefer they focus on her unique/mage aspects. In other words, keep the focus on Zyra using plant combos. [The ult buff works to this effect by keeping the enemy helpless while enraged plants tear them to shreds.]

chriserit2 votes

from my point of view they should give her increased CC based on AP (since they want her to be a CC mid laner).

this could even work as a passive (every 100 AP your spell apply 0,2 sec CC additional)

Hex the FenFen1 votes

That would be cool but in all honesty i want her passive to interact more with her plants so they are much more of a threat and not free gold for the enemy. I would like a passive where she gains something when she has plants or her plants gain extra something.

chriserit1 votes

actually passives are really frequent on spells so technically both of them could be added

(i am with you about making her plants more rewarding)

WhiskerWow2 votes

I don't actually see how this is going to negatively affect mid lane though. It'll be like the Karma changes and kinda like the Mordekaiser changes. They'll help them out bottom lane more but they're not gonna hurt the mid-laner at all.

Silents4292 votes

But I also fear with the utility buff, even though it can help with her mid lane kill potential, I fear this is still forcing her into the bot lane support role.

She isn't being forced to do anything, play her mid if you want to, Riot isn't stopping you, and has expressed they want her viable mid.

ReshiKillim2 votes

I'd love to see a mechanic like this:

Respawn with 25% HP and MP on the enemy's corpse if you kill them with your passive. But the spike seed thingy stops if it kills them.

Because she shoots a big stabby seed and all, I think it'd be really cool if it could make her passive scary like reviving her if she can kill someone with it. It'd be an interesting and definitely unique mechanic.

And/Or make it so it can't be blocked by Braum or Windwall.

What do you guys think?

Currently hoping that CertainlyT gets ideas from this post..

Hex the FenFen2 votes

That would actually be really cool...like...really cool

ZeichiVos1 votes

And faithful to her lore... she DID totally possess that sorceress to get an actual bipedal body.

Hex the FenFen1 votes

RIGHT!?! How cool would that be!?

ReshiKillim1 votes

Totally cool. Imagine the expression someone would have when they kill you, get killed by you, and then you proceed to push the lane while they're on death timer. I know it'd make people a lot more wary of Zyra, rather than "lol your passive is lame"

For sure, it'd be the highest Risk vs Reward revival mechanic in the game.

Because you could get yourself killed multiple times if it was botched by having "Seeded" yourself into someone in the middle of the enemy team, but it'd be totally worth and a really cool mechanic that encourages smart "Seeding" people in the face.

Jeffreak151 votes

[deleted]

ReshiKillim1 votes

I made another thread specifically on this idea with some things in mind.

Now, 25% HP and MP was just an example as I'm not on part of the Riot crew. And You could theoretically die 6 times in a row if you got a penta with the new passive mechanic idea.

And the Thorn/Seed would be consumed on the first kill, but in the highly unlikely chance it killed two at the same time.. It'd just pick one and respawn there.

Hex the FenFen1 votes

I love your idea ^_^

Ahri Body Pillow1 votes

{quoted}

I'd love to see a mechanic like this:

Respawn with 25% HP and MP on the enemy's corpse if you kill them with your passive. But the spike seed thingy stops if it kills them.

Because she shoots a big stabby seed and all, I think it'd be really cool if it could make her passive scary like reviving her if she can kill someone with it. It'd be an interesting and definitely unique mechanic.

And/Or make it so it can't be blocked by Braum or Windwall.

What do you guys think?

Currently hoping that CertainlyT gets ideas from this post..

Doesn't her lore state specifically that she can't revive?

ReshiKillim1 votes

Her lore said that she was afraid because she had no roots to retreat back on. It didn't say anything about seeds, while those are part of her kit. Thematically, if I remember correctly, those plants she spawns are considered as a "Offshoot" of herself so I don't see how her passive being a "Seed" which revived her would run contrary to not having any roots to retreat back to anymore.

OyddAWqJ5r2 votes

Her true role is support. She was made to be able to do both and, just like Tahm, players found her better suited to the support role and that was that.

Thus her true nature is supporting. Going mid is her side option. Ofcourse what you prefer her as is up to you, but I would much rather play a viable support Zyra than a mid Zyra.

Hex the FenFen2 votes

No, her true nature is a mid lane mage. She was intended to be a mid laner with support as her side option. She was taken support after her nerfs because no one wanted to play her mid anymore.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Tahm's "true nature" in testing was Jungle. But then Top lane was better. But then Support was even better.

So now his "true nature" is supporting. I don't know where you are getting this "true nature" stuff from.

She was taken mid because she was horribly unbalanced. If you watch even the champion spotlight you can see mages who weren't even great at the time destroying her while she tried her wonky solo combos that would only work cuz she dealt tons of damage.

ReshiKillim1 votes

Zyra was actually designed similarly to Syndra. A good mid, but can be a good support as well. That's what she was designed to be, a mage that works in two lanes.

But one of the reasons she got nerfed was the hardcore QQing. Doing tons of damage doesn't unbalance a champ, though she was a little overboard in terms of damage on release.

Tahm didn't actually have much of a presence in the jungle for a while, because his pre-buffs state was poor at jungling. The early clear was extremely dangerous and any jungler who counterjungled would have killed him.

Kench was also mainly designed as a supporty tank but with a huge damage presence in a fight. He basically fills a role Leona used to, back when AP Bruiser Leona was the thing.

People took Tahm to jungle and top not because he was meant to go there, but because people thought: "This new tank craps on other tanks so let's try this out where tanks are strong and often played"

And on the PBE mostly nobody knew how to deal with Tahm, which caused him to seem a lot stronger in top and jungle than he actually was. After his major buffs, he got a lot better in top and jungle.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

If you want to get literal, Zyra was literally designed to have no lane. But ofcourse, after playtesting in PBE and Live, players were taking her bot lane and mid lane. Mid lane only worked because her skills did cheesy damage and were far easier to land making cheesing squishy opponents a breeze but at the same time anyone with a respectable all-in could destroy her at will (Annie, Zed, Talon).

So once they removed her outragious, temporary disable-worthy and hotfixed damage she became way less viable mid but still an extremely strong support.

So since she had no role to begin with and was placed support by the majority of the playerbase, it's safe to assume that support is her role.

Chortle2 votes

The .5 second added to the ult knock up is not "forcing her into the bot lane support role".

It's an overall buff for both roles. She already has crazy damage. Utility seems like the best place to fine-tune things.

As a zyra mid main, this only helps her tbh.

Salidfingers2 votes

She is fine in mid, The problem is she is squishy, but lets not forget the fact that she can 5v1 a whole team with a full AP build. I have done this many times when i am guarding baron and all 5 players face check :P

and after looks at some of the suggestions this is a joke thread.

thumbnail91 votes

Sadly Zyra will never go back to seeing mid lane play unless they fix the fact she is wet paper.

I shutter to think what would happen if she took a Viktor E, the decimation would nearly delete her in 1 move.

Hex the FenFen4 votes

I fight a lot of Viktors mid...I don't have that problem lol I find she actually counters him

IxtaliKing1 votes

I agree, while I wouldn't say she counters him I usually win against Viktor with Zyra.

cagaman1 votes

you want a certainlyt rework? beware what you ask dude, you may still see zyra reworked as a meele bot carry or some other nonsense...

Hex the FenFen1 votes

I'm not asking for a rework lol I am just asking him to keep in mind that her initial role was mid as he works on the changes.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

Well what would you have them do? Straight buff the ratios? give her back her 20% cdr on W? She's being buffed, how isn't a huge issue. So she's got more CC now, why does that 'force her into support'? If you enjoy her as a mid laner, play her in the mid lane. That's what I do.

Tourian1 votes

Don't let this man touch any more balance or champions period. Look at Skarner and Garen now.

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