You can only have big burst if you also have good mobility

I don't really understand why people are so mad about Veigar getting nerfed, he's always kind of had a toxic kit. Two point and click nukes. Honestly, all he would need late game is just a Q + R to kill most champions. Also, his R has a pretty bad mechanic attached to it. He gets to scale off of his opponent... so if he's doing bad, and he feeds the enemy, he gets rewarded by being able to nuke them even harder. His stun was also problematic, because it was a huge, instant, AoE stun on a burst mage. Burst mages should not have that kind of CC.

I will say though, the delay on his E is too long. I think that 0.5 seconds would be much better, just like Cho'Gath's Q. Lowering the ratio on his R is also justified, as it already has an enormous base damage, and very high scaling on your AP, and then high scaling on your opponent's AP.

500 + 120% AP + 80% opponent's AP is extremely high for a point and click. Lowering it by just 20% AP is completely fine.

I don't really like the Q being changed to a skillshot, however. It's his bread and butter skill, it needs to stay consistent. I don't mind having is Q targeted, as long as they change his R to a skillshot.

These are just my thoughts, and I know I'm going to get downvoted for stating my opinion on Veigar. I just think that adding a little more counterplay would be nice. Also, don't mention how "Zed can beat Veigar so well", this is not about Zed, it's about Veigar. Zed is a much bigger problem and has nothing to do with Veigar. Zed needs some changes too.

put lee sin in that list too

100-0 champions absolutely must have counterplay to their combo. Veigar didn't, so he had to suck.

If this E nerf works, and people can sometimes avoid his 100-0, that is great news for Veigar fans. Maybe not this patch, but counterplay to his combo means Riot can let him actually be good.

Must say that the current changes they are proposing are not exactly intuitive. The Veigar changes would already be huge, but I really do feel bad for the Mordekaiser mains that remain. These changes are mostly nerfs, with a couple smaller buffs thrown in. Low range, no gap-closers, no mobility and little range. Now he's getting his burst potential nerfed aswell, so that they can call him a bruiser. I enjoyed playing a lot of Mordekaiser, but I don't main him. But for those that do (and I know that there're not a large amount of players who do), I hope that your favourite champion isn't ruined too much by these changes. Hopefully Riot will see these changes are not accomplishing anything healthy for the game or champion in general.

Notice though that Veigar's all point and click abilities. If he's in range he never misses. At least the others can be dodged, or the other player can miss.

Not to mention his R nerf is made up for by more farming on his Q. And his Q has longer range.

would like to have a word with you

You're not allowed to have burst if you're low mobility

Because having a hard time reaching your target and being rewarded for it is bad

Kass isn't that bursty after the nerfs, his base damages are utter shit, the only thing he has is his mobility and late game damage, I believe he's the least troublesome of the mobility champs especially cause his mobility is limited with mana

The burst damage archetype (largely assassins but there are others, like Annie) is ultimately toxic to this game.

Nobody enjoys going from 100% to dead before being able to react. And its particularly egregious for champions without a mobility escape.

And the worst part is that when a mobile champ bursts you, people label it an 'outplay' or 'high skill', but when someone does the exact same thing w/o mobility, it's suddenly bad design and bad balance... because let's be real, we're not really seeing sustained damage anymore outside of the ADC - EVERYONE bursts.

I'm still in disbelief about the 5 second garen ult that nidalee has. I'll never understand it

We still have velkoz, Annie, and Cassiopea to look forward to.... till they get nerfed for "dfg compensation" or "morello removal compensation" or something else that totally kills mages.

Because fizz is so strong right now...

You don't need big burst if you don't die to it.

Like seriously, it feels like Mordekaiser may be so ridiculously tanky next patch that his lack of mobility won't matter. AND he's getting a conditional movement speed boost, which does make him faster in some scenarios.

:c

{quoted}

Kat Leblanc Fizz Nidalee Zed Kass Edit: Lee Sin

R.I.P. Veigar (also Morde)

duuurrrrrrrrr cuz most of them are assassins? thats their job? assassins are supposed to have good mobility and dmg for lack of cc and squishiness. On that list kassadin is the only one whos actually tanky but kass has always had problems anyway. Same as lee

I just want to clarify damage in a vane try to stop people saying that "he's too OP" and that shit: Q: 70/95/120/145/170 +0.7 AP W: 40/65/90/115/140 +0.6 AP E: 80/105/130/155/180 +0.7 AP R: minimum: 80/100/120 +0.02 mana | maximum 240/300/360 +0.06% mana. -And you have to spend 1,200 mana every time you want to deal that much damage.

Now let's compare him with a support not oriented to deal high damage like Nami is: Q: 75/130/185/240/295 +0.5 AP W: damage: 70/110/150/190/230 +0.5 AP | heal: 65/95/125/155/185 +0.3 AP E: 75/120/165/210/255 +0.6 AP R: 150/250/350 +0.6 AP -Considering she landed all 3 basic attacks.

Even a support with nice CC like Nami outdamages him. What I wanna say is that Kassa actually pays for his insane mobility in form of reduced damage and limited burst. I think Kassa is a perfect example of a balanced mobility-based champion.

Now let's compare him with another assassin with similar mobility and similar role like LeBlanc is: Q: 110/160/210/260/310 +0.8 AP W: 85/125/165/205/245 +0.6 AP E: 80/130/180/230/280 +1.0 AP R: mimicking Q/E: 200/400/600 +1.3 AP | mimicking W: 150/300/450 +0.975 AP -Considering she deals full damage from that ability.

I know that is pretty off-topic, but I just wanted to clarify why you can't really compare Kassadin to truly problematic champions. I actually think Kassadin is an example of healthy high-mobility champion.