Riot might start publishing there data on champions

CrazFight ·Oct 31, 2017·28 votes·1,278 views

"Maybe we should publish our data, so you can see which champions we think are a problem and which ones we think are fine. Maybe you should be able to see, without asking, which problems we are worried about, which ones we’re worried about but haven’t solved yet, and which ones we think the community can solve on its own."

Full article: https://askghostcrawler.tumblr.com/post/166964825793/meddler-just-dropped-a-bomb-and-debunked-the/amp

I would honestly love this , as im a data whore; do you guys think this would help reduce some of the noise of people yeling "This champ is broken, but my reasons arent really valid!" threads?

29 Comments

PopcornBunniOct 31, 20175 votes

I don't feel it's necessary they publish full data on every champion/item/whatever.

However, I absolutely believe they should reference specific points of internal data with patch notes. It's one thing to hear "We think Ornn could use some help, he's still struggling somewhat." It puts things that much more into perspective if they can be accompanied by internal statistics -- "After Ardent changes, Lulu has been struggling, seeing a dip to 43/whatever% winrate. Shield blah increased to make up for the lost power in her itemization"

Obviously with full or generally large reworks, or with smaller tweaks that feature both buffs and nerfs, the data wouldn't really be necessary as it isn't relevant, but where it is, it could certainly stand to be stated outright.

ChargeItDownMidOct 31, 20174 votes

[deleted]

PopcornBunniOct 31, 20171 votes

{quoted}

The thing about game balance data is that it really has to be all or nothing. In order to properly balance champions, we need to be able to compare champion stats across the board and identify outliers.

IMO, riot should just release all of the data and let the community parse through it. It will give people an appreciation of the complexity of game balance and better allow the community to call out people if they try to slip any bs through.

"We" aren't the ones that are in charge of balancing champions. "We" don't need to see every piece of weekly/daily data or parse through it to know what demands to make of riot, and it would only result in petulant entitlement if it were all public. Sharing data when its relevant is plenty enough to explain when changes are warranted.

AirKingNeoOct 31, 20171 votes

This already happens using stats from op.gg or such.

Literally nothing will change.

Yma SOct 31, 20173 votes

All balance would be 100% objectively based off fact if it had Data to prove it's reasoning

But then I remember a 2015 video where Ghost crawler said that Riot sometimes makes balance changes on how they "Feel" even if there is evidence to support otherwise

so if they released this data, they could no longer get away with this bullshit

DuskDaUmbreonOct 31, 20171 votes

Except there are a good number of times where their "feelings" are based in something objective - such as past experience.

This is going to happen every time with anything new (including reworks), and generally happens when they have no idea what else to do.

Yma SOct 31, 20173 votes

{quoted}

Except there are a good number of times where their "feelings" are based in something objective - such as past experience.

This is going to happen every time with anything new (including reworks), and generally happens when they have no idea what else to do.

so all the data points out to X champion being not OP

but some shit eating rioter says he "feels" that champion is OP, so he gets a nerfed

this is the kind of balance you want your game to have?

DuskDaUmbreonOct 31, 20172 votes

There's way more to it than that.

They "feel" that said champion is just about to become OP, based on past experiences and how they think they meta's about to shift. So they then preemptively nerf said champion.

Rinký DinkyNov 2, 20171 votes

Volibear

AirKingNeoOct 31, 20171 votes

We already have op.gg and other websites.

They'll still get away with bullshit.

The DeckownerOct 31, 20172 votes

there

SweedishGunnerOct 31, 20172 votes

Yeah they've been slowly killing off API sites so it would only be fair.

InfernapeOct 31, 20171 votes

Speaking of the API, I find it weird how Riot's API agreement says something along the lines of "you cannot have an MMR checker" yet OP.GG is allowed to exist and have one.

But aside from that, it would be nice to see their reasoning behind why certain champs (looking at you Twitch) aren't being looked at despite the statistics saying that they were incredibly strong.

JMoormannOct 31, 20172 votes

I think Riot means that you cannot have an MMR checker that pulls your MMR from the API. OP.GG, as far as I know at least, just gives an estimate based on things like LP gains/losses

Tik115Oct 31, 20172 votes

I think it would be nice, but it would depend on the level of data

Would if have things like Cliff notes on balance team meetings?

Would it just be a "Rating system"

Would it point our particular builds?

Its down to the data we get

But overall, transparency is good

EinarUlfarOct 31, 20171 votes

A++ idea. Would really love this, and would potentially remove some potential hateposts for champions.

ZT XperimentorOct 31, 20171 votes

Something that could've been used years ago to help set guidelines for how much of a change is too much.

warpenguin555Oct 31, 20171 votes

I think they should publish it or atleast release reports of it every so often.

It Hertz When IPOct 31, 20171 votes

Short Answer: No.

Long Answer: If you read the article, Ghostcrawler even mentions that people really, really want to externalize blame. There's currently two kinds of complaint threads: A: Well thought out threads. These guys do enough research that usually they're already talking about actual problem champs. B: Whine threads. These guys already do no research, so having more available research isn't going to help.

AirKingNeoOct 31, 20171 votes

We already have full data. Websites like op.gg and leagueofgraphs are top tier sources.

I don't oppose them providing raw data (though I guess many stat sites would die, another subject), I don't see how this fixes the issue of problems like Maokai and Jayce being broken for over a year and a half.

There's also data manipulation, but I'm hopeful that will never be an issue.

Bank of VeggieNov 1, 20171 votes

Jayce was next to the worst champ in the game for a pretty long period not too long ago.

Posts like this are exactly why Riot should start posting this data.

Mig89Nov 1, 20171 votes

op.gg and leagueofgraphs took a big hit when they stopped releasiong API data. Those sites just seem like garbage since then

AirKingNeoNov 1, 20172 votes

Uhhhhhhh

Jayce has always been a viable pick for the past 4 years. He's been broken tier for over 1.5.

HaIlMonitorOct 31, 20171 votes

I would assume the reason they haven't is because people already skew data to say how op something is. I see so many post about "x champion has a massive winrate please nerf!" then when you look up the actual data (even from the same sight) it will be in Korean soloque D+ or something. If they give data it wont really fix that, and honestly it might make the meta's even worst, with more people going into the mold based off of Riots data.

Like he said right here:

"There are third party sites that try as much as they can to aggregate data, but you still have no way of knowing if those data corroborate our data, or if we are even looking at the same data. (For example, are you including all players or only high ELO, and are you looking worldwide or just NA?)"

GayFluffyUnicornNov 1, 20172 votes

So and where exactly is the problem with determining a champs strenght by looking at the people who are amongst the best of this game? You act like soloQ Dia+ would be irrelevant when this is the most relevant set of data.

HaIlMonitorNov 2, 20171 votes

The problem isnt D+ in general. Its when people grab a random small server with a single Ryze main that has a 70% winrate or something dumb so he bloats it and then complaining about how op he is. I see that a ton when people complain about champs.