Kindred sucks.

Liquid Dario·Oct 14, 2015·6 votes·7,870 views

Whatever nerfs were on the pbe for this champion basically made him unplayable. Any jungler ever can just walk into his jungle at any point and 2 shot him. His health is by far too low. His damage overall I find is fine. in teamfights he is just deleted unless he begins the team fight with his ult hes basically useless. I am assuming if hes fed obviously its a different story. hes not an adc/jungle with an inherent cc all he has is a mesealy slow. he cannot kite for long at all especially when its someone like a shyvana hes basically dead no matter what.

I expect he will be buffed next patch. They must have purposely made him bad like they did with reksai only to buff him and make him op later. Right now I believe many others will come to the same conclusion.

If you see a kindred and your on lee, vi anyone really with any invade potental. Just walk in and take control of his jungle he cant do squat to you.

46 Comments

OhthePiplupOct 14, 20157 votes

Is it bad that i want to down vote purely for the fact you call them "him"

AbsorbedHorizonOct 14, 20155 votes

[{quoted}](name=Such is Fate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2kIQrV8L,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-10-14T19:24:04.514+0000)

Is it bad that i want to down vote purely for the fact you call them "him"

No it isn't I felt the same way

PennsOct 14, 20152 votes

Even tho Kindred means both of them, I dont think Ill ever say "they". "She" is where its at! :O

ZyorhistOct 14, 20153 votes

I agree, somehow I feel that lamb runs the show and wolf just tags along...so its a she or them, but never a him. wolf runs nothing.

EndlessSorcererOct 14, 20153 votes

They have been out for less than a day.

Give people time to figure out how they are built and played.

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

They have been out for less than a day.

Give people time to figure out how they are built and played.

how much u wanna bet that next patch kindred gets buffed ? cause I can guarantee it.

EndlessSorcererOct 14, 20151 votes

Unfortunately, it's quite likely. It's what happened for Tahm Kench after he was released even though his numbers were fine.

Look how that turned out.

Red RyuOct 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Unfortunately, it's quite likely. It's what happened for Tahm Kench after he was released even though his numbers were fine.

Look how that turned out.

He also was literally buffed in almost every patch since then.

DrCyanideOct 14, 20152 votes

With the one game you have played, how can you guarantee anything about Kindred?

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

With the one game you have played, how can you guarantee anything about Kindred?

when your watching multipule challenger tier players until 12 pm tonight basically roughly 20 + games ? I think I'll have a good handle on what he is or is not capable of im basically working all day and doing nothing but watching challenger players play the champ.

DrCyanideOct 14, 20151 votes

Challenger players, presumably playing against other challenger players, who have a much better grasp on their champion than the streamer has of Kindred? Let them make the posts about Kindred being weak if that's how they feel.

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Challenger players, presumably playing against other challenger players, who have a much better grasp on their champion than the streamer has of Kindred? Let them make the posts about Kindred being weak if that's how they feel.

Perhaps you should wait until I post my full findings about the champion before you judge my ability to understand the strength and weakness of a champion. I am not watching a STREAM I am watching games in the client and am paying extremely close attention as I like this champion but feel he needs to be stronger than this to contend which I'm sure and extremely confident that riot will feel the same way. If I can give some advice that could help the direction of the champion then I will gladly do so. When said challenger tier player who should understand his champion is going 6-14 it kinda sends off an alarm wouldn't u think ? especially in a game he won and was ahead for the first part of the game. Only to be completely destroyed due to some of the issues I stated earlier which shouldn't be really happening on a fed champion in 1v1 scenarios. Thats like a 5 - 0 kalista losing to a support tahm kench with 0 kills in a 1v1.

DrCyanideOct 14, 20151 votes

When said challenger tier player who should understand his champion[...]

There's the problem right there, there is no such challenger player!

Kindred has been out less than 12 hours. In that time, she's been banned by many players and a contested pick by those looking to play her. Some of these players have been trying to play her ADC, others as a Jungler, and inevitably some as a Top, Mid and Support. Assuming the Challenger player you're spectating bought Kindred as soon as they were released and has been able to play them one out of every three games, that means they've only got 6 games on Kindred. That is not enough time to understand a champion at a level that you can play them against competent opponents.

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

There's the problem right there, there is no such challenger player!

Kindred has been out less than 12 hours. In that time, she's been banned by many players and a contested pick by those looking to play her. Some of these players have been trying to play her ADC, others as a Jungler, and inevitably some as a Top, Mid and Support. Assuming the Challenger player you're spectating bought Kindred as soon as they were released and has been able to play them one out of every three games, that means they've only got 6 games on Kindred. That is not enough time to understand a champion at a level that you can play them against competent opponents.

there is also said challenger players who have been on the pbe grinding it out with kindred and should know how the champion works by now so saying no one knows the champion is incorrect to assume as such.

DrCyanideOct 19, 20151 votes

It's still too early to know for certain, but I thought it'd be worth pulling in some preliminary stats on the subject.

http://champion.gg/champion/Kindred/Jungle

Players with 5-15 games experience are winning 71.02% if games.
With an even number of games played by all players, that comes out to winning 994/1,400 games.

http://champion.gg/champion/Kindred/ADC

Players with 5-15 games experience are winning 95.82% of games.
With an even number of games played by all players, that comes out to winning 369/385 games

The preliminary numbers seem to say the exact opposite of what your "challenger" player was saying, implying very strongly that Kindred will be nerfed in the near future.

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20153 votes

As of right now my criticisms of the champion are

Too weak health wise. Very easy to invade and take over his jungle. E range is too low. Slow is not strong enough. Has very little 1v1 potential for a jungler cannot do much without a frontline champions presence.

as i come up with more ill add them btw im watching challenger players and also playing myself to make these accusations.

KilljoyXOct 14, 20153 votes

Statistically at high elo kindred is below 80th place among all champions. This indicates kindred will get a buff next patch. Preferably a large one.

General Esdeath Oct 14, 20152 votes

"How dare this infinite stacking ranged ad jungler be squishy!"

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20152 votes

{quoted}

"How dare this infinite stacking ranged ad jungler be squishy!"

theres a difference between being squishy and being weak.

General Esdeath Oct 14, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legendary Uchiha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2kIQrV8L,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-10-14T19:42:19.324+0000)

theres a difference between being squishy and being weak.

His health is by far too low. His damage overall I find is fine.

Your own words, you called them squishy but fine with damage. I hope you're trolling m8

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Your own words, you called them squishy but fine with damage. I hope you're trolling m8

im not trolling im being 100% serious.

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20152 votes

What does it matter if he stacks infinitely if he dies instantly ?

HairyLegionaryOct 19, 20152 votes

I feel like if you play kindred smart and you can get a real early stack or two they can easily snowball that to keep getting a lot more stacks, and even an extra 2.5% early is incredibly useful.

SquidsmastahOct 19, 20152 votes

"health is too low"

coughcough

Mister MackeyOct 14, 20151 votes

2 second dash that can jump walls.. While I didn't like the jungle aspect (tried QW and died at my red buff with 2 pots used and 5s left for smite cd...) laning with them is kinda interesting. They can kite really well, dmg is more sustained than bursty. I dunno give them a week before you make any conclusions, especially when most people still building the rec builds instead of trying thier own

HabitzOct 14, 20151 votes

Did someone have a bad first game?

alfavhunterOct 14, 20151 votes

It's an adc jungler it should be squishy because it's late game damage will be extremely strong

CaptnJakSparrowOct 14, 20151 votes

Actually, Kindred at best can only get 15 stacks in a game and that's if they're 20+ kills and a kill during the 6th stack of jungle.

Best case scenario for Kindred is 10. 7 is doing really well. Typical average will be around 3.

Infinite stacks muh ass.

HairyLegionaryOct 19, 20151 votes

One thing i will say is I have never only gotten three, i think my least is 5 in about 10 or so games of Them

CaptnJakSparrowOct 19, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=x SirHardcore x,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2kIQrV8L,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-10-19T16:18:32.618+0000)

One thing i will say is I have never only gotten three, i think my least is 5 in about 10 or so games of Them

Then you haven't played against a higher rated team using Curse Chat :). All they have to do to permashut you down is have the balls to level 1 cheese you followed by another level 2 cheese for FB. Take the first camp, kill both scuttles and then kill you again at your next buff and you're completely useless for the rest of the game. Arguably free gold.

The funnier addition, is when people like, say me :D, are complete fucking assholes and around the one minute mark after your first mark was stolen is perform the "denying" of our own jungle via killing all the big monsters of our camp save for wolf camp forcing the mark to go to the wolf camp. Now you're forced to go balls deep into MY jungle and get marked by wolf smite to die, or roam and "try" to get kills while being 3 levels behind.

I've done this about 15 times now.

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20151 votes

Also another point is his E which doesnt have a long enough range I hope they will make the range on it larger.

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20151 votes

also his 1v1 skills are laughable at best.

AxestsOct 14, 20151 votes

kindred wasn't bad when i played them on pbe. Their ult was difficult to use correctly and takes a while getting used to (kind of like bard ult) and they're reliant on the player constantly kiting around in teamfights. I feel they aren't particularly weak however i also feel that because of the devourer nerfs they'll never live up to the carry potential of adc's when they jungle (damage wise at least). Either way more team is needed to truly gauge kindred's power, we don't need to do what we did with tahm kench and accidently buff them too much because they "feel" weak.

3tysonOct 14, 20151 votes

the way you descripe him hes like a bad twitch jungle

twitch can somewhat clear if you get the hang of it and his ganks can be quite strong if you know who/how to how ever

but when a real jungler staps in and you arent fed hes just gonne rape you and steal your jungle

how ever with clever use of your stealth warding and help from your team you can actualy put up with this in some games

where kindred doesnt really have that verry usefull long stealth twitch has his heal how ever goes of quite fast if your moving so id sugest try kiting around your enemy til help arives and heal up not sure how possible this is with how squeeshy he is

Liquid DarioOct 14, 20151 votes

{quoted}

the way you descripe him hes like a bad twitch jungle

twitch can somewhat clear if you get the hang of it and his ganks can be quite strong if you know who/how to how ever

but when a real jungler staps in and you arent fed hes just gonne rape you and steal your jungle

how ever with clever use of your stealth warding and help from your team you can actualy put up with this in some games

where kindred doesnt really have that verry usefull long stealth twitch has his heal how ever goes of quite fast if your moving so id sugest try kiting around your enemy til help arives and heal up not sure how possible this is with how squeeshy he is

id say more like a very poor twitch / vayne jungle combination. Just wait for my real post on things they should adjust then you will def see what I mean. My post wont be till about 11pm est tho I want to get enough info and have a very good post on what should be done to kindred to make him more effective. That hopefully riot will read and respond to. or at least take note of.

3tysonOct 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legendary Uchiha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2kIQrV8L,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2015-10-14T21:33:14.760+0000)

id say more like a very poor twitch / vayne jungle combination. Just wait for my real post on things they should adjust then you will def see what I mean. My post wont be till about 11pm est tho I want to get enough info and have a very good post on what should be done to kindred to make him more effective. That hopefully riot will read and respond to. or at least take note of.

just played a game with him i feel like hes far from that strong

he can do massive dmg do

Red RyuOct 14, 20151 votes

Main thing that bugs me about Kindred is the low base AD value, if it was higher triforce would be core on then and I would gladly build it.

AdanChristoOct 14, 20151 votes

my complaint about kindred is his dmg and his ult, what's his ult for? it sucks

CincluerOct 14, 20151 votes

You do realize that once they hit 7 stacks their passive does more on hit % damage (8.75%) than the blade of the ruined king's passive (8%) does right? I've been testing them out myself and I've found they do far better as an on hit monster. Try building them with devourer, bork, runaans, and frozen mallet boots and the final item don't matter all that much. Stay away from sheen and its upgrades even though they can easily proc the spell blade buff they have piss poor base damage even with sterak's.

Top RekSaiOct 15, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Legendary Uchiha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2kIQrV8L,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-14T19:23:30.404+0000) I expect he will be buffed next patch. They must have purposely made him bad like they did with reksai only to buff him and make him op later.

As a Rek'Sai main I am offended that you say Rek was bad on release, she has been nerfed 7 times since release also kindred is balanced as far as i can tell her ulti makes up for her lack of tankiness and if you stack an e while ultis up and last hit them when the ulti expires it usually kills them instantly

KingOphidiophiacOct 17, 20151 votes

Did you just call release RekSai bad ?

He was the most op release ever his e did more true dmg then Darius ult.

StaconaOct 19, 20151 votes

I am sorry, they buffed Rek'Sai? Rek'Sai only got nerfs since her release, she is also still relevant by the way - they also never nerfed Kindred on PBE

AlexTheGrandWolfDec 21, 20151 votes

umm nope.its just a really hard champion to play with,if you still disagree,howcome i get more than 14 kills in every game ?

AlexTheGrandWolfDec 25, 20151 votes

Well i mean i call kindred sometimes "him"because i wanna get deep into the role and in order to do that i must compare him too me,though that dosn't mean i agree with "legendary Uchiha",Hes Health Is Just Fine Compared With All The Other Range Champions,And Hes Jungling Is Better Than Good,Most People Get Mad Because They Really Don't Know How To Use them,He Can Win Team Fights Easy If He Uses "Wolf'S Frenzy", Then Spams "Dance Of Arrows" And Then Uses "Mountain Dread."The Mark Of Kindred" Helps Him A Lot As He Gets Bonus Attack Damage,Hes Stacking Is More Than Just Fine And If You Have A Problem With His Health Just Go To The Shop,If You Dont Believe Me Then How Come I Get More Than 16 Kills In Every Game?

CatastropDec 25, 20151 votes

When people make threads like these like, 2 days after the champion's release, I always laugh even harder when they pop up back way after because it shows they were too stupid to have some patience and learn the champion.

Valor LimitDec 30, 20151 votes

Kindred is a horrible champ, her atk ratio on that q is so bad, and her ult is horrible. The only use for that ult is if Im try to take down a turret, and you cant say it'll help in team fights because all other champs expect to kill someone with their moves; not waste it to find out that the enemy is still alive. Riot expects her passive to do all the damage which is only fitted if you build her atk speed and defense.