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Why Going AP Support Won't Work

YumScrumptious96··1 votes·1,013 views

I've seen many players go supports like Sona or Lux and just build full AP without thinking of their adc and proceed to get very fed, while that's good it ultimately is bad. It means your ADC, the AD dealer is very underfed, you usually have a AP mid so you don't need to be another one. Your adc becomes very weak and as a result they are unable to help you siege well, cannot successfully carry a teamfight, and can't help you win. Whereas AP supports like Lux will maybe delete one enemy, then be focused down immediatly because they can't take the turret or can't heal from lifesteal like adc's. They use an entire spell combo to kill one target and become useless till their CD's are up. ADC's however can continue to deal massive damage with crit chance and just auto'ing rather than abilities and will stay alive longer thanks to their lifesteal that they usually build (and in most situations their dash abilities). In short, AP supp "carries" are not better than getting a relatively well off ADC, and it should influence your choices in-game. Do you need that Luden's Echo or would Mikael's be better to keep your real carry alive.

38 Comments

Poop Jelly2 votes

It does if they play them right =]]

YumScrumptious961 votes

It doesn't if the enemy realize you have no DPS in the form of AD and they just build magic resist and kill Sona who has no dash like an ADC.

Poop Jelly1 votes

I play AP supports all the time. It depends on team comp & skill but generally they do work. Just gotta play more assertive than utility support, but pay attention to bad trade/getting caught situations.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Yes and if the enemy team is also playing well they will recognize that you are the strongest in damage with a low escape chance, queue assassins getting you very quickly due to low escape and health with no lifesteal.

make me sad1 votes

{quoted}

Yes and if the enemy team is also playing well they will recognize that you are the strongest in damage with a low escape chance, queue assassins getting you very quickly due to low escape and health with no lifesteal.

{quoted}

It doesn't if the enemy realize you have no DPS in the form of AD and they just build magic resist and kill Sona who has no dash like an ADC.

I can scale to over 700 move no one can even catch me sitting in the backline and even if they are invisible I still know how to position until they engage on someone else and I 100-0 them

and yes I can judge mechancal skill by how well they cs/trade in lane within several minutes sometimes almost instantly

I also rush void staff the second I see anyone is going abyssal/league of maw

YumScrumptious961 votes

700 move, almost homeguards on a Sona was it? Maybe with your one ability but that lasts barely 3 seconds. Nice reply in the wrong comment thread too. I doubt you are even close enough to judge someone's kill by that much time. Nor can you do it because you screw them over with everything you do like taking cs and kills. You know some adc's dont play strongly early game because their champs are weak early right? And some have passive qualities early during laning phase because they prefer to concentrate on cs, something you mentioned yet you're the problem with them because you take cs at random and throw them off.

make me sad1 votes

{quoted}

700 move, almost homeguards on a Sona was it? Maybe with your one ability but that lasts barely 3 seconds. Nice reply in the wrong comment thread too. I doubt you are even close enough to judge someone's kill by that much time. Nor can you do it because you screw them over with everything you do like taking cs and kills. You know some adc's dont play strongly early game because their champs are weak early right? And some have passive qualities early during laning phase because they prefer to concentrate on cs, something you mentioned yet you're the problem with them because you take cs at random and throw them off.

uh once your master/challenger skill you can easily determine how capable someone is by watching them play for 2-3 minutes

you judge stuff like last hitting ability/trade ability/how quickly they animation cancel after aaing/how many skillshots they are dodging etc if I aa all the cs once under the turret and you hit it again your a potato

if the wave pushs and you cant get basically every minion under the turret then your a potato if I see you repeatedly walking into every skillshot thrown at you then your a potato

if I see you failing to respond when I go to harass enemy laners and you have massive openings to aa once or twice then your definitely a potato IE: janna uses shield then I go forward to harass on the free adc and you keep last hitting like nothing happened

I already know your a potato then you literally dont even know how to lane and you expect everyone to worship you and serve you everything on a silver platter even though you have no clue how to gain control of the game by yourself and literally passed up a free 1v2 chance on the enemy adc you expect other people to carry you to mid/end game then act impressed everytime you beat your chest for getting a simple killsteal during a team fight you didnt really earn

thus your a low tier adc

also for someone in bronze 5 with a negative w/r you have a very strong opinion about stuff

also sona gets movement from alac mobi boots/lich bane/mejais/maybe even ludens depending on the build path and a haste with 500+ ap is still a haste and it scales massively at that point

YumScrumptious961 votes

But you aren't even master skill level, currently you're Plat which is quite a ways off. You're generalizing all adc's yet if you were really in D1 these adc's would not be bad or even close. I have a strong position against fools and liars yes. I'm not gonna be a bitch and say I am so much better because ranked resets hit me hard as I was silver before and I don't play ranked often. I never claimed to be a god like you do, honestly you're openly lying about your skills and generalizing an entire group of players, something a master/challenger wouldn't do. I love your creative insults to go along with your insults. ADC's don't expect people to carry them to late, they expect the team to survive that long so they can not ks as you say, but win the entire teamfight because they do more damage than anyone else. This can't happen when some kid who can't stand the fact someone is against their opinion screws you up all game by taking your cs and kills. As for your last little thing, you didn't say anything about her ability that gives movement speed before, and even then its a short duration so there is actually no way you are running the whole game with homeguards. And you aren't usually gonna be full build before any of the enemy team decide to buy say, magic resist items or QSS to stop you from ulting them?

make me sad1 votes

{quoted}

But you aren't even master skill level, currently you're Plat which is quite a ways off. You're generalizing all adc's yet if you were really in D1 these adc's would not be bad or even close. I have a strong position against fools and liars yes. I'm not gonna be a bitch and say I am so much better because ranked resets hit me hard as I was silver before and I don't play ranked often. I never claimed to be a god like you do, honestly you're openly lying about your skills and generalizing an entire group of players, something a master/challenger wouldn't do. I love your creative insults to go along with your insults. ADC's don't expect people to carry them to late, they expect the team to survive that long so they can not ks as you say, but win the entire teamfight because they do more damage than anyone else. This can't happen when some kid who can't stand the fact someone is against their opinion screws you up all game by taking your cs and kills. As for your last little thing, you didn't say anything about her ability that gives movement speed before, and even then its a short duration so there is actually no way you are running the whole game with homeguards. And you aren't usually gonna be full build before any of the enemy team decide to buy say, magic resist items or QSS to stop you from ulting them?

yes I am a master/challenger skill in the time it took you to write this butthurt post I went from p5-p3 doing a double promotion without even finishing promos my mmr on this account is just that good

do you really think a normal plat acct has 80% win ratio with 10:1 kda sona and 20:1 kda on lux? and just casually has multiple 0 death games in a row? LOL!!!!

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=ajimu check out my 2nd game where I go 8-0-15 on sona and carry dominate the ex LCS/famous streamer in d1/master elo

pretty funny stuff

also no my calculation does not include sona having homeguards if I use homeguards sona has well over 1k in base ap sona is 500-600 move speed but can scale to a maximum of 720 speed outside of base WITHOUT homeguards @ 18 6 item 3-5 drag buff/baron she is one of the fastest champs up there with quinn/rammus etc

mejais/lich bane/luden/mobis = shit ton of move speed on top of a haste that scales well when you add extreme amounts of ap

and no I dont care about mr

I go frostfang - darkseal - frost queen - mobis - mejais - sheen - void staff - lich bane I run 2 gold gen quins and frost queen alone gives me 1.5-2k gold on top of whatever kills/assists/cs I take

I easily finish my void staff before their abyssal/maw or about the same time they do even if they cleanse my stun I can still burst for 2.5k dmg which is plenty to kill the mid or adc if I flash on top of them

if I catch a team in my ult I deal massive aoe becuase I didnt build cheerleader

YumScrumptious961 votes

Dude you completely read it wrong. I never mentioned you using homeguards, I said you did not have permanent move speed equivalent to homeguards or very close to. All you talk about is your stats and shit yet if you were really master skill you would be in master wouldn't you? As for time it took me to write this post, it took my 2 minutes, you didn't respond for a while then got promoted, congrats on lying again.

make me sad1 votes

{quoted}

Dude you completely read it wrong. I never mentioned you using homeguards, I said you did not have permanent move speed equivalent to homeguards or very close to. All you talk about is your stats and shit yet if you were really master skill you would be in master wouldn't you? As for time it took me to write this post, it took my 2 minutes, you didn't respond for a while then got promoted, congrats on lying again.

give me afew weeks I just made the acct masters is easy

{quoted}

Impressive. How do you manage not to die so much(if that even makes sense). What do you do that most people don't ?

Aside from that....are you on Replay.gg ? I'd like to watch your replays see if I can learn something. That win streak in really impressive. I never knew someone can be that good.

if you go to the link on op.gg you can download many of my games if you are capable of viewing .bat files you just open and it launchs league

I would recommend adding me ingame and spectate that way and asking questions while I play

YumScrumptious961 votes

Okay give you a few weeks to climb up to masters? Master tier players already made it back to there and they got hit by resets.

FioraWillCarry1 votes

{quoted}

http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=ajimu check out my 2nd game where I go 8-0-15 on sona and carry dominate the ex LCS/famous streamer in d1/master elo

Impressive. How do you manage not to die so much(if that even makes sense). What do you do that most people don't ?

Aside from that....are you on Replay.gg ? I'd like to watch your replays see if I can learn something. That win streak in really impressive. I never knew someone can be that good.

Malfini2 votes

Kayle

YumScrumptious961 votes

Then you lose a lot of hard engage that you would get from say Annie or Thresh while having a solo laner who usually needs farm to do well in a bad role for them. Kayle support only realistically works if you have hard engage, even so you leave your team losing a big chunk of AD from your adc as Kayle will be taking mostly all of the kills to even do well.

Beldair1 votes

Not true....i have done Kayle support before and the adc got pretty fed. While it is true she doesn't have a hard engage, she can make their engage backfire with her ult....allowing her adc to get a few free shots in or escape.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Meaning all the enemy have to do is force you to ult someone quickly. It can work a few times but its not viable if you want to play support as your main to climb.

Beldair1 votes

I've had great success as Kayle support.

  1. Her heal also gives a nice boost too.

  2. her Q slows

  3. Passive shreds some of their armor

  4. E makes them think twice about hiding behind minions.

  5. Ult can set up a double kill or last long enough for ally to flee.

She seems strong enough to me.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Her ability no longer shreds armor, Kayle can either ult herself to keep themselves alive and get themselves a kill or ult their ally and die, both are squishy meaning there is no tank in that lane, CC will destroy the adc or Kayle ults them and the enemy can just back off and re-engage later.

Beldair1 votes

About 50% of games i play has an enemy team with a squishy bot as well.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Yes and they also have a tank support or someone with great disengage like Leona, Janna, Soraka, Thresh, Blitz.

Tyrone Lannister1 votes

God im really happy i dont have as many annie "supports" as i used to

make me sad1 votes

{quoted}

I've seen many players go supports like Sona or Lux and just build full AP without thinking of their adc and proceed to get very fed, while that's good it ultimately is bad. It means your ADC, the AD dealer is very underfed, you usually have a AP mid so you don't need to be another one. Your adc becomes very weak and as a result they are unable to help you siege well, cannot successfully carry a teamfight, and can't help you win. Whereas AP supports like Lux will maybe delete one enemy, then be focused down immediatly because they can't take the turret or can't heal from lifesteal like adc's. They use an entire spell combo to kill one target and become useless till their CD's are up. ADC's however can continue to deal massive damage with crit chance and just auto'ing rather than abilities and will stay alive longer thanks to their lifesteal that they usually build (and in most situations their dash abilities). In short, AP supp "carries" are not better than getting a relatively well off ADC, and it should influence your choices in-game. Do you need that Luden's Echo or would Mikael's be better to keep your real carry alive.

I have been d1-d2 multiple times going ap sona support with no sightstone and intentionally jacking all kills from my adc

umad? definitely mad

my adc is literally my supporting minion and he doesnt exist as the adc unless I say so and give him permission to exist

if I dont deem him worthy I discard him and 4v5 with my remaining 3 viable teammates

im not going to feed a potato that isnt capable of carrying the game just because he is playing an adc champion

YumScrumptious961 votes

Great assumption that I am mad because you brought up a rare occasion. I'd hate to be on a team with you, seeing as you don't play roles nor do you care for your team, you instantly assume all adc's are potato's yet they are also within your rank while playing adc. There's a reason adc's exist and I hardly believe you're gonna get any higher in rank with that mentality.

make me sad1 votes

{quoted}

Great assumption that I am mad because you brought up a rare occasion. I'd hate to be on a team with you, seeing as you don't play roles nor do you care for your team, you instantly assume all adc's are potato's yet they are also within your rank while playing adc. There's a reason adc's exist and I hardly believe you're gonna get any higher in rank with that mentality.

I give him all cs but he has about 5-10 minutes to impress me before I can tell he lacks mechanics sufficient to carry the game then he gets no more special treatment and whoever gets the kill gets the kill

I will regularly tax 1 minion whenever I feel like it

YumScrumptious961 votes

Wait this is one time you're talking about or multiple, its not even special treatment, its how the game is played normally and mean to be played. 5-10 minutes, what if they play a hypercarry, you want them to somehow just get better instantly and have the power they get through late game in early game. Whenever you feel like it, seeing from your last one you just take everything, meaning they get even less of chance to do something to impress you when you intentionally put them behind. You sabotage your own adc and then blame them. 5-10 minutes until you can tell that? I call BS. Some pro player get off to a bad start and do badly in an entire match, doesn't mean they can't do well. I'm sorry you have such a flawed mentality and opinion towards this playing correctly.

Erockandroll1 votes

Usually, I go mage support just so I can flex. Only buying AP after my ADC/someone else Fcks up, and I need to take over.

I end up needing to clear the minion wave, save the tower, perhaps get a kill in the process. all while my Smart ADC found himself back at the fountain.

YumScrumptious961 votes

Its fine if your adc is not performing well and is pretty much forcing you to, my problem is with those who just take all the kills on purpose while not building any defensive items.

SexySoapTurtle1 votes

How about.. i go what i want botlane :D

YumScrumptious961 votes

I'm not demanding you stop, I'm telling you why it isn't the correct choice to do well in ranked.

D3m37r11 votes

It's not my fault my carry is braindead and/or unable to last hit.

YumScrumptious961 votes

But this isn't the case with actual adc's. People who main adc and aren't trolls will do their best do lat hit.

Hex the FenFen1 votes

I play Sona as a full AP mage support, I do pick up a kill or two, but the thing is, Sona really needs the AP to be effective. I gives her a much bigger heal and shield and on top of that her ult will do substantial damage in a teamfight. It also allows me to chunk down a squishy target and either get them out of the fight so we can engage a 5v4 or allow one of my teammates to easily kill them without wasting an important ability. Utility Supports such as Nami and Sona, Lulu too, with decent scaling and good AoE are very nice to have when full AP because it helps their defensive moves too even if enemies do build against them, they wont be building as much armor and such against your ADC allowing them to be more present in fights. Isn't it better they focus you than the ADC?

YumScrumptious961 votes

I'm speaking of the people who aren't really "support" the ones who actively take the kills and leave their adc in the dust because they want to do all the damage.

Hex the FenFen1 votes

So maybe you are talking about the Nidalee's and Anivia's and LeBlanc's that start dorans ring and build like a second APC instead of buying SS or a gold income item to actively support the team. In that case you might have wanted to be more specific

YumScrumptious961 votes

Nah I'm speaking of the people who try to go a support like Sona and try to carry the whole match, they take cs and kills to get themselves fed and leave their adc behind to be useless. Although off meta picks are also a problem.

Athenes Lulu1 votes

Usually they steal 80%+ of their ADC's kills, so I'm not surprised on why these kind of strats fail.

Assuming equal farm, a 0/0/7 ADC has less gold than a 3/4/0 ADC. Do the math, the latter has more money, so therefore he will fare and transition better into later game. And the results? The one with the 3/4/0 ADC wins because he is more ahead.

Otherwise I don't really care on what a support does as long as he doesn't "take too much" from his laners. Not all supports are created equal.

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