S Grading Broken?

YumScrumptious96·May 28, 2016·9 votes·1,172 views

My friend just went 21/3/7 on Yasuo and got an A+, I was Lee Sin and went 6/2/13 and got an S. Why did he get a lower grade, he had more cs, higher KP, more damage dealt. How come he got a lower grade than me when I did worse?

31 Comments

SukishooMay 29, 20166 votes

Lee sin's difficulty is a 6 where as Yasuo's is a 10... so of course there is gonna be A LOT that you will have to do inorder to reach the top for the latter. KDA is also only one factor in the Grade system, CS, Warding (placed and destroyed), Towers/Inhibs taken, Dragons/Baron/Herald taken (and yes this means your involvement in them) . So there's a lot the system looks for.

YumScrumptious96May 29, 20161 votes

Jesus, please read the other comments. I've responded to replies exactly like this too many times.

SukishooMay 29, 20166 votes

Don't start a discussion if you're not going to even listen. No on cares if you've replied to others, we aren't all going to bother going through the thread and reading things other people have said.

YumScrumptious96May 29, 20161 votes

Your comment is exactly like every other. So I'm not going to repeat myself 20 times because you aren't willing to read before you instantly type a reply.

Sona PingMay 28, 20165 votes

You are comparing different champions, in different lanes. You failed at Step One.

YumScrumptious96May 29, 20161 votes

I've played Yasuo and done worse yet still gotten higher grades.

Chake14uMay 28, 20163 votes

Lee Sin was jungle, I'm going to assume?

Well, let's look at a couple things.

Riot looks at a lot of things, but most of all they compare the metrics that an average person would have in that role. Thus, saying that one person was "better" than another person is automatically invalid. It'd be like saying that because the ADC went 10/0/0 and the support 0/0/10, the support is definitively worse than the ADC. Relatively speaking to their role, it could be true, but that's probably not accurate.

Now, there's a LOT of different things that happen. For one, CS and dealing damage to towers is rated extremely highly for some odd reason (Personal observations - no actual proof). Additionally, participation in dragon could be huge. It could be that early game performances were rated much higher, such as if Lee Sin ganked 5x succesfully early game, and then off of those kills Yasuo got a bunch.

You see, it's not about KDA, it's about the impact a person made, and Riot has a LOT of metrics in place that do not just extend to "I HAVE 20 KILLS I GET S"

YumScrumptious96May 29, 20161 votes

Again, read all of the comments as I've explained things like this. He participated in objective taking more than me, had higher CS, had more shutdowns. he outperformed me and still got a lower grade. I've played Yasuo and done worse but got a higher grade.

Critmaster GarenMay 28, 20162 votes

because.

your grade is made up of multiple factors, not just k/d/a. its also minion score, assists in taking objectives like drakes, turrets and baron, wards planted and destroyed.

finally all that is compared to the average of people playing these champs.

so when almost every yasuo gets similar scores and your buddy didnt ward or destroy wards, or participated in objectives, or didnt get a lot of minions, then its just an A+ performance compared to yasuo players in general.

this is also individually calculated for the appropriate gamemode. so if that was in dominion, then getting that many kills might have not been anything special with the constant teamfights.

i break 25 kills on garen in almost every aram i play. if mastery existed there, i wouldnt expect that to be special either.

YumScrumptious96May 28, 20161 votes

He had a higher minion score, participated in each dragon take, we never took baron, he took as many or more turrets, the only thing I beat him in was probably wards placed. There is no way that his score was not S when mine was unless all Lee Sin's are awful.

Critmaster GarenMay 28, 20163 votes

{quoted}

He had a higher minion score, participated in each dragon take, we never took baron, he took as many or more turrets, the only thing I beat him in was probably wards placed. There is no way that his score was not S when mine was unless all Lee Sin's are awful.

its not an S, if yasuos on average play that good.

youre making the mistake of comparing the performance of that yasuo to the lee sin, when the performance is compared to everyone who plays yasuo, and the grade is calculated off that.

its not broken. it shows how good you are with a particular champion compared to everyone else who plays that champion. its the part about champion mastery that makes the most sense in my books.

YumScrumptious96May 28, 20161 votes

I've gotten higher Yasuo grades with worse performances, I can even bring one recent game up after I finish this match I'm in.

Mysticman89May 28, 20163 votes

There's three possibilities there:

First, it's possible it wasn't actually a worse performance. It may have been a worse kda and/or cs, but there's a lot more to grading than those two things.

Second, you could have been playing different roles. Yasuo top is graded compared to other yasuo tops, and is completely separate from yasuo mids for example.

Third, there will be some day to day variance on the requirements due to variance in the overall performances of the community. If by random chance theres a lot of poor yasuo performances without a comparable number of high end performances, then it'd be relatively easier to get a higher grade since it's all percentile based. Requirements aren't likely to actually change by much since theres a lot of performances out there and the curve has likely more or less stabilized, but it can make some differences for performances just on the edge of grades.

YumScrumptious96May 28, 20161 votes

He was playing Yasuo mid, which has a pretty bad winrate and is not very strong currently.

Mysticman89May 28, 20163 votes

Win rate and actual performances aren't quite the same thing.

Top tier yasuo mids are scary, and can produce ridiculous performances (I'm sure we've all seen a yas get fed, then manage an ult in a teamfight that made 3+ members of the team disappear), but at the same time not actually be quite able to win games if the meta doesn't favour them.

And I mean, your friends performance was an A+, which is still good. The lack of the S rank just means enough people were doing yasuo mid even better (perhaps not dieing at all, or maybe more KP [remember, having the highest in that particular match doesn't matter if in other games people managed even higher], or various other factors), so clearly the state of the meta is one that allows yasuo mids to do better.

YumScrumptious96May 28, 20161 votes

Top tier exist in Diamond+ ELO, which I'm not in, so if they rate my performance with them then I am quite annoyed by that. He should be rated by how well he did compared to his ELO, bronze, not higher.

Mysticman89May 28, 20163 votes

Ah, that's probably part of your confusion about mastery grades then.

MMR is not a factor in grades, so you're compared to all performances on a particular champ/role combination, not just those around your elo. That said, an S+ rating 'only' requires you to be in the top 2% of performances, while diamond+ is like the top 1% or so (and most of them aren't actually playing any given champ/role combo).

S grades in bronze/silver are relatively rare as a result (and are arguably easier as ones elo goes up), but they do occasionally happen, since the bloodbaths that happen in those elos sortof counter balances the more careful csing oriented play of the highest elos.

YumScrumptious96May 28, 20161 votes

I get S grades easily with worse scores, I've gotten several S+'s on Yasuo, Thresh, and Lee Sin. I'm annoyed that you are compared to all players in every ELO rather than similar ELO and the fact that I've done worse on Yasuo and gotten better grades than my friends.

Critmaster GarenMay 29, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I've gotten higher Yasuo grades with worse performances, I can even bring one recent game up after I finish this match I'm in.

then maybe the average changed since then. people are tryharding to get S grades on their mains to get mastery 6 and 7. which increases the average.

GaleWinUnleashedMay 28, 20162 votes

Because Lee Sin is not the same as Yasuo. Grades are based on your stats as compared to other players using the same champion in the same role.

There's also more than just combat stats taken into consideration. Objectives, wards, etc. should also make a difference.

YumScrumptious96May 28, 20161 votes

I guess you didn't see my other response, just look at the below replies.

NearaMalforeMay 28, 20162 votes

I would love to know the metrics specifically that they use for determining ranks. When I play supports and I have an objectively perfect game (0/0/20, constant warding, participation in all objectives, etc) and get an A-, but then play games that are utter stomps on my teams part, and I end up "Support Sona" with a full ap build, barely warding because my team is fed beyond belief and in the enemy base the entire time waiting on minions to get through the nexus towers (my ending score being 5/1/4 or something like that) and I'll get an S+....that I just don't understand.

Like I get that it's based on champion, role, performance, and the general player trend. But shouldn't there be some sort of baseline for said specific roles?

edit: Basically, actually playing a role as intended should net benefits from this system, but it doesn't.

Irelia BotMay 29, 20162 votes

well that is yasuo.

Also it is not only KDA that decides ranking

YumScrumptious96May 29, 20161 votes

Please, look at other comments.

BoulderoxMay 28, 20161 votes

funny thing is people want to get rank 6-7 on mid yasuo... and that is the most contested data to beat to earn an S... I have plenty of games where I play underrated champs, and get s ranks based on the role is not very popular/they are underplayed. Try something different, top yas or something, hell theres word of korean jungle yasuo doing work. Your role makes a big indicator as well when receiving your rank. Kills I find are good but are crap honestly... hell http://i.imgur.com/KpAW86R.png VS. http://i.imgur.com/5N1ygyl.png old but still relevant. Team play is a must, you can't just 1 man everything and expect a s everytime.

YumScrumptious96May 28, 20161 votes

I play mid Yasuo and I'm already rank 6 in 4 games of playing it.

elon wątrobaMay 28, 20161 votes

I've got a S for kindred support in normal with shitty stats 7/6 or something like that.

The LexerMay 28, 20161 votes

Meanwhile, 13/10/8 on Jinx is an S-

German CthulhuApr 6, 20171 votes

[{quoted}](name=The Lexer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j72LRHm1,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-05-28T21:22:30.216+0000)

Meanwhile, 13/10/8 on Jinx is an S-

because people like to stomp jinx into the ground ik this because when im an adc and the enemy adc is jinx i just feel obligated to kill jinx or keep her out of lane the whole game tell she is like 4-5 lvls behind the rest of my team then almost anyone else on my team can one shot her

Remlap1223May 29, 20161 votes

If I had to guess, Lee Sin's abysmal win rate is why there's an easy S. Yasuo has a low skill floor, which means you have to be closer to the ceiling to get that sweet sweet S rank.

I assume that the easiest champions to earn S ranks on are champions with high skill floor but a close skill ceiling. If Shaco wasn't full of nothing but mains playing him, he'd be the one I'd recommend. So the only other champion like that would probably have to be someone like Ziggs, Orianna, Zed, Corki, etc .

YumScrumptious96May 29, 20161 votes

Yasuo mid doesn't have a good winrate either though. My friend has been playing Yasuo for a while know, mastery 5 with probably 40k points by now, he just wants to get mastery 6.