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ADC Question

ThePartyLeader··10 votes·781 views

For quite a while I've been seeing these remove adc from the game threads. They tend to make points like these, obviously in slightly more detail than my list.

ADCs shouldn't be strong early game. ADCs shouldn't shred tanks late game. ADCs shouldn't be able to burst squishies. ADCs shouldn't be able to duel others. ADCs are to safe.

But if ADCs can't be strong early or late, can't kill tanks or squishies, and can't duel anyone. That leaves attacking structures. But you guys normally want stronger towers also so you think adcs shouldn't do that either.

So what should they do? Literally anything anyone 1 adc can do you guys don't like.

It's not like other lanes don't have a champion that fits each of theses roles of lane bully, hyper carry, burst champion, sustained damage, and duelist. And it's not like there's been past seasons and patches to where a mid laner or top laner could solo carry games. In fact they still can now.

So what are they allowed to do and how can we make them feel different if they aren't allowed to do different things. Also you obviously play melee champions so how are we going handle lane bullies if we are forced into melee vs melee machups.

12 Comments

Mimy6 votes

Thanks for standing up to the circle jerk Melee Mains.

I don't get where they get the "Melee Champions are soo weak" Bullshit from. If you look at Champion.gg...

#Which is Plat+ RANKING

You would see that Nunu Sion and JarvanIV are 3/5 top win rates to play and... Oh my goodness guess what? THEY'RE ALL MELEE!

All of these melee threads sound like an indirect "Buff my Main, I can't carry hard enough" thread.

But Toplane this and Toplane that!

http://image.prntscr.com/image/bfb5476ec75f435bbd5f54661a4dd2e5.jpeg

#Shut the F__ up... and GET GOOD, YOU BLUBBERING ONE TRICK PONIES!

I think I made my point..

SKT GodKiller2 votes

Well, I understand what the melee guys are talking about, because they get SOOOOOOOO tilted from the new adc top thing, which I personally hate, but I do believe adc's should be allowed to shred tanks, do well early, etc. But I'm just sad that we can't nerf adc's for top lane, because nerfing an adc top lane will also nerf and adc at bot lane, obviously. Its just a lot of melee mains get kited to hell early game at top.

Mimy1 votes

{quoted}

Well, I understand what the melee guys are talking about, because they get SOOOOOOOO tilted from the new adc top thing, which I personally hate, but I do believe adc's should be allowed to shred tanks, do well early, etc. But I'm just sad that we can't nerf adc's for top lane, because nerfing an adc top lane will also nerf and adc at bot lane, obviously. Its just a lot of melee mains get kited to hell early game at top.

tilted from the new adc top thing,

That's just Vayne and a few others needing a Nerf.. and with item 3153 Buffs on the horizon.. If she spikes too much it will come.. I don't think they'll buff an item then nerf it because certain champions are too strong with it..

ADCs are SUPPOSED to shread tanks.. except Rammus because.. That's rammus.. He's the BANE of ADCs and that's His Identity..

If people have that much trouble with ADCs... Play rammus..

But you don't see like Tristana going top?

Tristana was my main for the longest time but She's not very strong in the current meta.

#BUT THAT DOESN'T MEAN SHE NEEDS BUFFS.

She's strong. it's just her Counters are STRONGER at the moment.

SKT GodKiller1 votes

Oh, I understand this all, im just saying the solution is nearly impossible to find

ThePartyLeader1 votes

{quoted}

Well, I understand what the melee guys are talking about, because they get SOOOOOOOO tilted from the new adc top thing, which I personally hate, but I do believe adc's should be allowed to shred tanks, do well early, etc. But I'm just sad that we can't nerf adc's for top lane, because nerfing an adc top lane will also nerf and adc at bot lane, obviously. Its just a lot of melee mains get kited to hell early game at top.

It's not new though Vayne and other ADCs top have been on and off since season 1 just like mages top, tanks top, bruisers top, ect. They cry for diversity, them cry op when they get it.

You just have your jungler dive the adc and you forfeit some cs in order to not push the wave to far out. It's not like adcs are more oppressive than Teemo.

SKT GodKiller1 votes

Well, I understand what the melee guys are talking about, because they get SOOOOOOOO tilted from the new adc top thing, which I personally hate, but I do believe adc's should be allowed to shred tanks, do well early, etc. But I'm just sad that we can't nerf adc's for top lane, because nerfing an adc top lane will also nerf and adc at bot lane, obviously. Its just a lot of melee mains get kited to hell early game at top. I am not saying adc's should get nerfed, in fact, they should get buffed in my opinion for team fighting reasons. But I am just wondering if you ever went against an adc top, because I have, and it was easy because it was a twitch, and I just needed boots, and I could win lane, but as for vayne top, all of it is just cheesy.

ThePartyLeader1 votes

{quoted}

Thanks for standing up to the circle jerk Melee Mains.

I don't get where they get the "Melee Champions are soo weak" Bullshit from. If you look at Champion.gg...

#Which is Plat+ RANKING

You would see that Nunu Sion and JarvanIV are 3/5 top win rates to play and... Oh my goodness guess what? THEY'RE ALL MELEE!

All of these melee threads sound like an indirect "Buff my Main, I can't carry hard enough" thread.

But Toplane this and Toplane that!

http://image.prntscr.com/image/bfb5476ec75f435bbd5f54661a4dd2e5.jpeg

#Shut the F__ up... and GET GOOD, YOU BLUBBERING ONE TRICK PONIES!

I think I made my point..

Why learn to adapt when you can just cry OP?

Noblewind5 votes

ADCs are the only big threat to tanks actually dying late game. Melee carries struggle against them because they can more easily be disrupted while the enemy back line has easier access to chunk them down.

Why in the world shouldn't they be able to kill them? So a tank late game just can't die to anything? That sounds like the most unhealthy thing ever: 1 guy takes forever to kill while he can CC, oh and he's also got 3 other teammates with late game damage and a supp while he's doing it...I don't get the tank complaints, all throughout the game having a tank item or two makes you super durable as a tank champ. I just faced a zac that went full tank and it took FOREVER to kill him every fight.

IMO ADCs are pretty close to being perfectly fine, Riot just needs to slow down the scaling. If an ADC is a glass cannon late game with 5-6 items then sure that's ok, the problem is they are super strong right now with 2 items and can almost solo snowball games. That's way too much strength. Runaans is a big issue, it's too easy to get and being ahead even a little means you get DPS, wave clear, and tower pressure in one go. TOO MUCH!

ThePartyLeader3 votes

{quoted}

ADCs are the only big threat to tanks actually dying late game. Melee carries struggle against them because they can more easily be disrupted while the enemy back line has easier access to chunk them down.

Why in the world shouldn't they be able to kill them? So a tank late game just can't die to anything? That sounds like the most unhealthy thing ever: 1 guy takes forever to kill while he can CC, oh and he's also got 3 other teammates with late game damage and a supp while he's doing it...I don't get the tank complaints, all throughout the game having a tank item or two makes you super durable as a tank champ. I just faced a zac that went full tank and it took FOREVER to kill him every fight.

IMO ADCs are pretty close to being perfectly fine, Riot just needs to slow down the scaling. If an ADC is a glass cannon late game with 5-6 items then sure that's ok, the problem is they are super strong right now with 2 items and can almost solo snowball games. That's way too much strength. Runaans is a big issue, it's too easy to get and being ahead even a little means you get DPS, wave clear, and tower pressure in one go. TOO MUCH!

Still remember some older seasons/patches where team fights would be a minute long and all champions would just walk away with low life with no one dying. Or the times of who won the teamfight? Mundo Mundo wins the teamfight by being unkillable and slowly killing everyone Like watching someone cut down a tree with sandpaper.

Mimy1 votes

Also I wanna bring this up..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTP0pzrrByQ

Aptest1 votes

This is how i see things:

things that players find fun: ganking and killing. things that players find not fun: getting killed, getting ganked (successfully).

Players want the game to be designed for them to have fun. therefore they want to play characters that are good at killing others and at not getting themselves killed. once we go down this road this is what happens:

say fizz kills brand every time. all the brand players switch to play fizz or talon. now brand has no play rate and riot buffs him until he can fight fizz. same way with olaf, jax, fiora, lee sin, rammus, whomever. If you're playing a character in a group that's getting killed a lot you switch out and then riot buffs your character or nerfs whomever is doing the killing.

But ADCs can't "not be played". because need ADC for objectives and team fighting. so riot can safely make them abused class without characters being abandoned.

and that's exactly what the players you are talking about want to do.

(ofc we're gonna end up with a everybody is a mid laner or a jungler, hi 20 min queue in silver situation)

6Sfool1 votes

You have to look at it in the big picture across the roles. The old classification is a pretty simple way to look at it.

Tanks- High defensive stats, can easily survive an assassin's bust, and can last a long time while being focused by sustained damage. Has low damage, but often high cc. Meant to be part of their team, protecting the carries while they do their work. Can duel assassins, but will probably not secure the kill.

Fighters- Medium defense and offensive dps, slight burst. Paired with tanks as frontliners, or roaming alone. Able to zone the enemy carry with their presence, and should be focused if fed. Is great at dueling any champ.

Assassins- High burst, low sustained damage and defense. Meant to remove enemy carries, and should reliably duel squishy champs. Able to dodge most strong cc, but is very vulnerable to point and click cc and exhaust spell.

Mages- Strong zoning in a large area around them, medium burst and dps, low defensive stats. Their damage is more reliable on immobile champs, countered by champs with strong engage, but able to kite others easily.

ADC's- Strong sustained damage, low defensive stats. Very reliable damage in a relatively small around them (this was changed and allowed the jhin/caitlyn/mf meta). Weak to engage, able to kite others it played right. Can duel champs with low damage relative to their tankiness.

ADC's are a middle-of-the-road role. Right now they are overtuned. They should be able to kill tanks, but not this quickly. A tank with 9x the effective hp as a squishy should take 9x as long to kill, not 3x. Assassins are squishy but should be able to kill the adc before they die themselves (as adc varus I nearly dueled a fed khazix shortly before the assassin rework). They should not be able to get the kill if successfully peeled, but barring peel, the assassin should win every time. Fighters with 2x the defensive stats and .66x the damage of an adc should win in a duel as long as they are not kited too much. Mages should out-kite the adc, but should die quickly if they get within aa range. The problem right now is that they can drain-tank the fighters, kill the assassins faster than the assassins can kill them, and shred tanks with items like bork and lord dominick's regards. Some can even out-poke the mages. The whole deal about too much burst relates to the fact that all champs have too much damage right now, and some have high damage nukes like Vayne Q.

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