Ekko being an AP champ feels off.

LittleBlast·May 14, 2015·17 votes·2,419 views

From what we saw in his teaser, he seems to use his sword for mostly everything. I feel like making him an ad or perhaps even true hybrid assassin would fit his theme more. What are your thoughts?

61 Comments

AkabaneKunMay 14, 20156 votes

I would love for him to be hybrid but then i look at the hybrid itemization of this game...

Vistha KaiMay 14, 20152 votes

Hybrid itemization? Like item 3153 + item 3115 ?

BombkirbyMay 14, 20151 votes

Those aren't Hybrid. Hybrid is AP+AD. Physical + Magical damage. Attack Speed+AP for example doesn't mesh at all. Your AAs still hit like noodles even with tons of AP, and Nashor's AA passive isnt doing physical damage.

Vistha KaiMay 14, 20151 votes

So you get BotRK and Nashor... That's AP and AD. w/e m8

SirsirMay 14, 20154 votes

Meh, swords don't mean it has to be AD, look at Katarina . My first gam with her in my noob days I built her AD and thought she sucked.

Plus his sword is glowing, its clearly magical.

Lastly that was his TEASER ANIMATION! Jinx can't ride her ult, can't dodge another Jinx's bullets by sitting still, and doesn't have a giant clockwork bear. Or even the small one in any of her emotes. Bard can't steal items from corpses or teleport his team to an upper dimension. Teaser is not the end-all for a champion, its for entertainment.

Vistha KaiMay 14, 20152 votes

That was actually a monkey, not a bear.

SirsirMay 15, 20151 votes

My b, its been awhile since I've seen that animation...

LittleBlastMay 14, 20153 votes

Oh god if jinx could ride her ult. That would be AWESOME

MudokenMay 14, 20151 votes

if i remember correctly there was a time when playing her ad was quite viable, but that was like season 1 or something?

SirsirMay 15, 20151 votes

Well I joined in the middle of S3, so... :P

qetzelMay 14, 20153 votes

Serious question here. Why do people want a hybrid champion?

I just think you can get the same gameplay out of a non-hybrid champion.

LittleBlastMay 14, 20153 votes

Because it fits his theme. Half magic and tech, half swordsman.

qetzelMay 14, 20152 votes

But with the abilities Riot has chosen, he still fights with the sword. His auto attacks should be necessary for him to get the third proc on the passive (face it, W and the ultimate just aren't going to be reliable enough) and he gets some bonus damage on his autos as well. He can't just stay at the back... Well, he can, but that would be stupid.

Even though he will probably only build AP he still looks like a magic/tech swordsman.

In general, rather than for Ekko, why do people want hybrid champions? You get quite a few threads out that say "Riot, I want a hybrid champion".

MrBuffingtonMay 14, 20151 votes

My best guess as to why people want a hybrid champion is just because it's a theoretical niche that's supposedly not really filled. Either that or they want a reason to build item 3124

Personally I think it's either misguided or the whole issue is misunderstood (there are already champions that deal hybrid damage/build hybrid items, like Jax, Kayle, Teemo, Poppy, Akali, Yorick, etc). I'm not sure what people are expecting from a "true hybrid champion", since most of the threads I see don't really elaborate on what such a champion would look like, especially not beyond the current champion roster

SirsirMay 14, 20152 votes

He seems like the guy who uses his magic for utility and his sword for pain.

BombkirbyMay 14, 20151 votes

Riot has stated they aren't a fan of Hybrid since there's no way to build against it. Jax at least is "countered" by AS reductions like Wither/Frozen Heart but that only helps so much.

NarasimhaMay 14, 20153 votes

One on hand, it would be nice for him to be AD based. On the other hand, it would be INSANE for him to be AD based.

WaffletimewarpMay 14, 20152 votes

Why is Diana AP?

LittleBlastMay 14, 20152 votes

Diana uses moonlight magic, and has a magical blade.

DreadlocksMay 14, 20156 votes

And its not magic that turns back time? xD

SpongebobIsLifeMay 14, 20154 votes

it's techmaturgy bro

LordKentravyonMay 14, 20152 votes

oh sounds like viktor...

JustMyBassCannonMay 14, 201511 votes

Techmaturgy and Hextechnology are scientific branches of...what again?

MAGIC

SpongebobIsLifeMay 14, 20151 votes

uh no, it's clear that he uses man made technology like viktor and jayce. There is no magic involved.

MorsigilMay 14, 20155 votes

You do understand what techmaturgy is, right? The "maturgy" is from Thaumaturgy, which you're welcome to google. It's a school of magic in many, many games and in many real religions. So what we're talking about is magic by means of machine. It's still magic.

Chaotic ReksMay 14, 20153 votes

LIKE MY COMPUTER!!!!

BônesMay 14, 20151 votes

This is a perfect explanation why he should be pure hybrid. Even if you didn't mean it to be. Lol

MorsigilMay 14, 20151 votes

It makes sense according to the lore, but most of his damage comes from his magical spinning device and time explosions, for lack of a better term. Zed zips around and stabs people, Ekko zips around and timesplodes people.

SpongebobIsLifeMay 14, 20151 votes

Yeah I mispoke, there is definitely no magic involved. Pretty sure it's all science.

JustMyBassCannonMay 14, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Its Spongebob,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2YykrfUP,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2015-05-14T17:56:38.588+0000)

uh no, it's clear that he uses man made technology like viktor and jayce. There is no magic involved.

...And Viktor is nearly 100% magic damage, and Jayce has mixed damage types. Heimerdinger also uses "man-made" (hex)technology, and is also magic damage. Rumble and Ziggs use a lot of the same technology and are magic damage.

Your point is not serving you at all, and misrepresenting a person with a false quote just makes you look bad at debate.

SirsirMay 14, 20152 votes

Katarina then? She throws knives

MrElyMay 14, 20152 votes

Obviously Knives are magical

MCBiggah99May 14, 20154 votes

{quoted}

Diana uses moonlight magic, and has a magical blade.

Why is Viktor AP? He uses technology.

Ekko uses technology and energy crap too, so he's AP.

SquizzlyBobMay 15, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Diana uses moonlight magic, and has a magical blade.

Riven?

Lost RMay 14, 20153 votes

Why is GRAGAS AP? He's attacking with his barrel chested beer gut, a barrel, and beer.

Magic damage doesn't seem to be limited to what form the source takes. Sion is dealing magic damage with his voice, Caitlyn does it with cupcakes, and Alistar does it with his FACE.

SpongebobIsLifeMay 14, 20152 votes

Yeah I kinda felt the same way when I saw that he is all ap ratios. I think AD would fit his kit and theme much better.

WhiskerWowMay 14, 20152 votes

But, but, what about Luden's Echo Ekko? item 3285

BlainezyMay 14, 20152 votes

Well throwing balls that explode and stun/slow things seems pretty magical to me. #timemagic. AP fits him perfectly. He's just a male version of Diana, but probably weaker than she is.

4nth0l0gyMay 14, 20152 votes

Well, I would like him to be Hybrid...but that would require him to have a passive that converted AD into AP and vice versa. It's completely ineffecient to mix damage otherwise.

I think, between an AD and and AP champion, AP is preferable; we already have a lot of champions with swords who are AD focused ( Aatrox , MasterYi , Tryndamere , Yasuo , Garen sorta, Fiora ). It's a pleasant deviation.

test accountMay 14, 20152 votes

Based on the stats on the pbe right now, you only need 300 ap to get the full effect from his passive and ult. And his scalings are otherwise horrible.

So as an AP Assassin, we're going to see him building like, say, Brand. With things like Liandry's instead of, like, Luden's. And because of his passive, we're going to see him building a little like Kayle, so Nashor's Tooth. Over all, I think AP Assassin works best for him balance wise. The only real issue is that we could see builds like item 3157 + item 3151 + item 3135 + item 3115 + the new item 3001 (remember he has crazy sticking power) + item 3020 -- where he winds up playing more like an AP Bruiser or a Tank than an assassin.

I'm not sure that's a bad thing, though. A "utility assassin" is really just a mage, after all, so if he winds up fitting into a different niche it probably won't be horrible.

Whimsy SpookMay 14, 20152 votes

When you watch in-game, it really doesn't feel off. Plus, I like a champion who can probably build AP or AD if you want to fool around for funsies.

AnomanderMay 14, 20151 votes

If he had any decent ad scaling with his kit and current damages he would be OP as hell.

BluePolarizerMay 14, 20151 votes

Now that I think about it, I believe the best way to play him might be as an AD/Hybrid bruiser like AD Fizz.

He has great CC, mobility and on-hits. All he needs is the tankiness to survive teamfights long enough to use it. No good throwing out all these huge zoning tools with 3-4 second delays if you get jumped on and blown up in 1.

item 3153 item 3078 item 3143 item 3157 item 3065 item 3158

XengreMay 14, 20151 votes

Has he been announced as an AD champ yet? I thought they haven't said. He could be either but it looks more like the Yi/Fiora route than Diana/Akali. Heck, considering his kit and lack of ratios he is stated to have I would build him AD anyways.

LittleBlastMay 14, 20152 votes

Surrender @20 has the details on scalings and his kit

DurzakaMay 14, 20151 votes

That was my thought as well.

The thing that throws it off for me is his W passive and regular passive, both of them being AA based.

AP is fine, he just strikes me as an AD champion from his kit and playstyle.

BombkirbyMay 14, 20151 votes

I really would like some AD scalings at least so we can at least try to build him AD. I was looking forwards to another AD mid. There are very few compared to AP mids. I'm still looking for the right AD mid. Hoped Ekko would be the one but I guess not. All we have so far are Talon/Zed/Jayce/Yasuo.... a couple of other niche picks like Riven/Lee/Wu/etc. Compared to the 50 AP mages we have and that isn't much. I didn't think LoL needed another AP like Ekko. But if it fits his playstyle better then it fits his playstyle better...

He's probably going to confuse newer players though. I thought Akali was AD when I first started because she used physical weapons. I suspect Ekko will be the same kind of noob trap.

DrakylonMay 14, 20151 votes

Autoattack-based AP just feels weird. The only items that give both Attack Speed and AP are Nashor's Tooth and Trinity Force (and Guinsoo's Rageblade, but slowly), so itemization is going to be pretty wonky for Ekko. My guess is people are just going to abandon ship with autoattacks and build him straight AP assassin - Lich Bane, Deathcap, Hourglass, etc.

MaikalMay 15, 20151 votes

I'd say AD Assassin if AD Assassin itemization didn't fucking suck. You have to build crit to be relevant late game and the only 2 items that are good on Assassins (AD Caster types, not auto attack based like Yi) that give crit are infinity edge and Youmuus. Which is only 35% crit. On the bright side, I know rito knows this and are looking into bringing back Executioner's calling in a way that it won't be complete garbage, along with other items potentially for AD assassins.