Why is Malphite Allowed to go Full AP?

ƒƒorAFK·Oct 17, 2019·9 votes·4,528 views

Laned against a support Malphite, kind of annoying since he has a point and click ability and walks up and does good damage, but we won the lane and I was Ashe. He got destroyed over and over, but then when he was maybe 1/4, he got his ult and just rushed into me and one shots me. Its super early into the game and I buy a stopwatch, use it incorrectly, and now I have absolutely no defense against his ult. I'm grouped with teammates in the back, and he just ults into all of us, one shots me, and gets everyone else low. He just continues to do this, and I can't do anything about it. I have my ult, but I try to save it, and I have Guardian's Angel, but that has a 4 minute cooldown.

Meanwhile, Malph is getting his ult back every 30 seconds. This is broken as fuck and I don't understand why a tank champion is allowed to build full AP and just ape it into the team every 30 seconds and one shot the ADC. It's not fun for anyone and makes me not want to play this game

44 Comments

JuiceOct 17, 20196 votes

AP Malphite is useless.

It's very cheesy, and it's "fun" but AP malph is actually complete garbage.

AP malph has no lane presence compared to other supports, his poke is awful as he runs out of mana fairly quick, he has no escapes, no peel = easy target for your jungler or your support to focus on

His only real strength comes after 6 but by then he and his laner should already be considerably behind, and he can only win if he lands ulti on both you and the support

His ulti is easy to dodge with flash and it's easy to bait him to go in with your jungler

AP malphite goes in > uses ulti > dies in 99% of the scenarios , if you can survive that you make him completely useless as often teammates can't follow up on his long range ulti in time since he's super squishy

Build hexdrinker and then maw / GA

If you are all sticking together against AP malphite you deserve to lose. You'd lose the same way against AP amumu, AP fiddlesticks etc etc

Zero ShingetsuOct 17, 20196 votes

{quoted}

AP Malphite is useless.

You're assuming support. AP Malphite goes top these days as well.
If he maxes Q first he has quite a lane presence at support.

AP malphite goes in > uses ulti > dies in 99% of the scenarios , if you can survive that you make him completely useless as often teammates can't follow up on his long range ulti in time since he's super squishy

item 3116 item 3157 item 3100 item 3027 item 3151 item 3047 3204 HP, 420 AP, 215 Armor (313 when initiating), +20% CDR, 20% more slow on Q, Hourglass after ult, 680 Thunderclap damage (695 when initiating), 538 Ground Slam damage assuming lower Armor, less damage from basic attacks, more damage the longer he stays in your face. This is before runes are factored.

JuiceOct 17, 20195 votes

Lol. The guy's talking about support Malphite. It has no lane presence until like lv4 when he puts a few points into Q. Doran shield heals 50% of his Q damage, his Q is low range - easy to avoid or punish him overextending to throw it. Besides his mana hungry Q he has NOTHING, NOTHING at all to offer to the laning phase.

AP malphite top is even worse ... You can literally 100>0 dive him with any champ lol. Oh God I can't even fathom how awful it would be to lane as AP malphite vs any of the meta top laners such as Kled, Fiora, Darius ... YIKES!

Why are you posting full build when we talk about support Malph? Are you expecting the game to last 50+ minutes with a full AP support malphite in it? Should be over at 20 max lol

Zero ShingetsuOct 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Lol. The guy's talking about support Malphite. It has no lane presence until like lv4 when he puts a few points into Q. Doran shield heals 50% of his Q damage, his Q is low range - easy to avoid or punish him overextending to throw it. Besides his mana hungry Q he has NOTHING, NOTHING at all to offer to the laning phase.

AP malphite top is even worse ... You can literally 100>0 dive him with any champ lol. Oh God I can't even fathom how awful it would be to lane as AP malphite vs any of the meta top laners such as Kled, Fiora, Darius ... YIKES!

Why are you posting full build when we talk about support Malph? Are you expecting the game to last 50+ minutes with a full AP support malphite in it? Should be over at 20 max lol

Alright, let's revise.

item 3401 item 3157 item 3027 item 3047 item 1026 2954 HP, 215 AP, 215 (313) Armor, +20% CDR, Hourglass after ult, 295 Thunderclap damage (310 when initiating), 415 Ground Slam damage assuming lower Armor, less damage from basic attacks. This, again, is before runes are factored.

Sorry, but the value of my post isn't inversely proportionate to the amount of times your reply features the phrase "lol". This is still going to be a tank that's not easy to kill bot. All he has to do is ult-burst the enemy support to death (515 damage at mid game, plus 310 from Thunderclap, plus 415 from Ground Slam, equates to half or more of a damage-spec support's life in less than two seconds) and the ADC is helpless.

JuiceOct 17, 20193 votes

Damn that build is hilarious. Won't even go spellthiefs on AP malphite support? It's literally 4v5 lol.

If you HAVE to play AP malphite support, please don't go that build.

Zero ShingetsuOct 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Damn that build is hilarious. Won't even go spellthiefs on AP malphite support? It's literally 4v5 lol.

If you HAVE to play AP malphite support, please don't go that build.

You said it yourself. He doesn't have any presence in lane. He's squishy. Why would I risk Spellthief on a melee support whose only ranged poke is a Q that consumes a quarter of his mana at level one? Further, with so limited time to build items, why would I trade 150 HP and 150% bonus regen for a paltry 35 AP? You're the one raising the issue that he has no staying power in lane, and you want me to swap 200% health regen for 50% so I can gain 21 damage on his Q at level 18? You're so blinded by your attempt to make me look insignificant that you're not thinking, friend. You're arguing against your own point.

JuiceOct 17, 20192 votes

So if this support doesn't use his Q what is he gonna do in lane? Just sit there and take EXP while his opponents chill and let him do that?

What lol

Zero ShingetsuOct 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

So if this support doesn't use his Q what is he gonna do in lane? Just sit there and take EXP while his opponents chill and let him do that?

What lol

Like any melee support, he uses the bonus health from Targon to last hit cannon minions where he can safely do so, lesser minions from a safer position where he's not able to. He saves his Q for the right moments - when his carry goes in, when his carry needs to get out, when his lane gets ganked.

Later on, once he has half his final AP, he can start initiating on the support with his ult and swinging the lane.

SaezioOct 17, 20191 votes

Lol you are assuming his enemies never go aggro on him for some reason.

When you see enemy malp support you need to be trading with enemy 24/7. he has NOTHING to do.Not to mention even the smallest of shielding/healing laughs at his Q damage.

"When he has half his final AP"? THAT'S WAY PAST LANING PHASE. AT LANE PHASE HE GETS 80? AP MAX. He can complete 2 AP items (except support item) if he is lucky and game goes past 30 mins and he isn't 1/13 already xD.

SaezioOct 17, 20191 votes

Why are you posting builds that are not lane builds?

Assume minute 15 support malph items. And that's like almost the end of the lane phase.

Zero ShingetsuOct 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Why are you posting builds that are not lane builds?

Assume minute 15 support malph items. And that's like almost the end of the lane phase.

I'm not kicking the ball through your misplaced goalposts again (by "you" I mean the duo that's formed to take up this crusade). I refuted your claim. Rather than gracefully accept that you were wrong, you presented a new scenario, thinking I wouldn't notice. I entertained you and refuted you even with this new set of rules. I did it once, and once is enough. Malphite is a perfectly powerful AP support and he's not meant to be. That is where the conversation ends.

You can consider this a response to both of your other replies as well, as they do a similar thing. Comments like this...

"When he has half his final AP"? THAT'S WAY PAST LANING PHASE. AT LANE PHASE HE GETS 80? AP MAX. He can complete 2 AP items (except support item) if he is lucky and game goes past 30 mins and he isn't 1/13 already xD.

... prove that you intend to argue on hypotheticals and conjecture, which is no basis for argument at all. Suppose you and I are debating who the greatest basketball player of all time. I say Michael Jordan, you say LeBron James. You say that LeBron James is an excellent inside shooter and his height gives him an edge in that regard. Now suppose I say, "But Michael would just block all LeBron's shots." There's no way of verifying this. There's no way of running a thousand games between the two players and knowing with hard data that Michael would block those shots. Thus, to predicate my entire argument on statements such as these would be futile.

Instead we'd have to compare something concrete, like average points per game. Well then, shall we do that?

https://i.imgur.com/07KTo08.jpg

Support Malphite, Platinum. 2.0:1 average KDA.

https://i.imgur.com/943iSgO.jpg

Support Nautilus, Platinum. 2.5:1 average KDA.

https://i.imgur.com/cKWUopb.jpg

Support Leona, Platinum. 2.4:1 average KDA.

https://i.imgur.com/Rxyz0nT.jpg

Support Brand, Platinum. 1.85:1 average KDA.

https://i.imgur.com/2Cc1lpE.jpg

Support Lux. 2.43:1 average KDA.

A far cry from the 1/13/0 scenario you're anticipating. The defense rests.

SaezioOct 17, 20191 votes

Concrete stats

1,3% pickrate with 47,5% winrate. Ranked 25/28 supports.

CY@

Zero ShingetsuOct 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Concrete stats

1,3% pickrate with 47,5% winrate. Ranked 25/28 supports.

CY@

The defense. Rests. If this abstract figure is what the prosecution will close with, in a case the prosecution centered around a hypothetical KDA, this should be an open-and-shut case. Boards? You decide.

SaezioOct 17, 20191 votes

I like how you say "tHe DeFEnce REstS" then proceed to keep posting.

Shows a man that really sticks to what he says.

But I guess that's what I should expect from someone calling stats "abstract figure"

P.S. I hope you don't reply again after saying twice you "rest"

P.S.2. I am the defence, I am defending malphite support whose stats speak for themselves. You are the one putting him on trial for being strong when he is the fourth worst support. Oh and if you check higher than plat his stats only get worse btw.

Zero ShingetsuOct 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I like how you say "tHe DeFEnce REstS" then proceed to keep posting.

Shows a man that really sticks to what he says.

But I guess that's what I should expect from someone calling stats "abstract figure"

P.S. I hope you don't reply again after saying twice you "rest"

P.S.2. I am the defence, I am defending malphite support whose stats speak for themselves. You are the one putting him on trial for being strong when he is the fourth worst support. Oh and if you check higher than plat his stats only get worse btw.

I replied, but I didn't add anything else to my argument. (Nice try at coercion, though! It was smooth as butter until you added two P.S. notes.) My defense has rested, that doesn't mean I can't banter with you. Consider it like... The case is over, and now we're going to the bar for a beer, like buddies. We're buddies, right? I mean we clearly have at least one major thing in common.

SaezioOct 18, 20191 votes

Aye of course we're pals. :)

I may find your arguments untrue or whatever. But I have nothing personal against you obviously.

Zero ShingetsuOct 18, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Aye of course we're pals. :)

I may find your arguments untrue or whatever. But I have nothing personal against you obviously.

Good stuff. :D Then here's to whatever the hell Riot's doing next season! May it... not suck for most of us!

SaezioOct 18, 20191 votes

Can't imagine it won't. Chinese rich people is Riot's target group now. LV skins were the last evidence I needed.

But we are gonna enjoy it anyway! CHEERS [slayer-jinx-wink]

Trist mid opopOct 17, 20193 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2OX3JzWU,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-17T08:14:20.265+0000)

You're assuming support. AP Malphite goes top these days as well.

If he maxes Q first he has quite a lane presence at support.

3204 HP, 420 AP, 215 Armor (313 when initiating), +20% CDR, 20% more slow on Q, Hourglass after ult, 680 Thunderclap damage (695 when initiating), 538 Ground Slam damage assuming lower Armor, less damage from basic attacks, more damage the longer he stays in your face. This is before runes are factored.

I dont think ryali scales with his Q slow. I think they apply the largest slowp

SaezioOct 17, 20191 votes

AP malph has lower winrate than tank malp
Rylai's is a wasted item on him, whoever buys it is either trolling or trolling.
You can't just judge by 6 items level 18. You have to play out the entire game to judge a champs strength. And ap malph should suffer so much levels 1-5 that he is already behind on his first R and his opponent already has some MR.

MyrmironOct 17, 20194 votes

item 3155

Zed geniusOct 17, 20197 votes

ADC players don't like to actually try to counterplay things, they only go and rage about them

Dark ArisenOct 27, 20191 votes

https://gyazo.com/9f29432660b6bf21b1739fc2f366c94f

Hexdrinker into Spirit visage and i sold them for banshees. Not enough.

Sinister AnubisOct 17, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Still not enough

7thHeavenOct 17, 20193 votes

item 3156

1 Inch and ProudOct 17, 20193 votes

its unhealthy. just like ashes slows every auto and then empowered q. if you dont have flash you die. autos arent on cd either.

Jerry SeinfeIdOct 17, 20193 votes

cuz he's a burst mage and that's kinda what burst mages do.

I'm grouped with teammates in the back, and he just ults into all of us, one shots me, and gets everyone else low. He just continues to do this, and I can't do anything about it.

have you considered, you know ... not doing that?

It's not fun for anyone and makes me not want to play this game

trust me there's 5 players in that game that genuinly enjoy that.

SaezioOct 17, 20193 votes

Yeah sounds like you and your support played the game horribly, in order to lose to an ap malph. Especially with ashe, each time he tried to get in ranged to Q he should have taken what? 3-4 autos and a W? OR is kiting not a thing in your games yet?

Iźuku MidoriyaOct 17, 20192 votes

I mean sure you can auto him, if he steps up enough the Q steals movespeed (he could just Q the support instead)

All he needs to do is get to level 6 and ashe is dead

NeriticcOct 17, 20192 votes

Only his ultimate has high AP ratio. He gets low ultimate cooldown because he takes Ultimate Hunter rune.

ƒƒorAFKOct 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Only his ultimate has high AP ratio. He gets low ultimate cooldown because he takes Ultimate Hunter rune.

I understand why he gets the ultimate constantly, just wondering how that is healthy for the game and fun from a gameplay standpoint

Zero ShingetsuOct 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Only his ultimate has high AP ratio. He gets low ultimate cooldown because he takes Ultimate Hunter rune.

Two of his other abilities scale with 60% each. That's not exactly a small number for a nominal tank. Sejuani, to name another tank with reasonable damage potential, has a couple 60%'s, but they have conditions. The rest are below 50%. Malphite just gets >50% scaling from a point-and-click Q and an easy to hit AoE because... Well, no one really knows why.

SaezioOct 17, 20192 votes

Maybe because Seju has a fuckton of CC while malph has 1 hard CC on his R?

IllabetheOct 17, 20192 votes

Malph doesn't get his ult back every 30 seconds. It just seems like it. Initial CD is 130 Seconds. Tier 3 is 80 seconds, adjusted by CDR.

That being said..... it is aids when he does have it. Just save your flash for it and play a dash comp. You can't stop him but you CAN get out of his ult's way. after he uses it and misses, he's fodder, even if a Q can hit 60% HP.

Sinister AnubisOct 17, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Malph doesn't get his ult back every 30 seconds. It just seems like it. Initial CD is 130 Seconds. Tier 3 is 80 seconds, adjusted by CDR.

That being said..... it is aids when he does have it. Just save your flash for it and play a dash comp. You can't stop him but you CAN get out of his ult's way. after he uses it and misses, he's fodder, even if a Q can hit 60% HP.

With 40% CD ultimate hunter and presence of mind it comes back at around 20 seconds bud

Presence of mind on champion take down restores 10% of your ulti cool down Ultimate Hunter at 5 stacks is 25% cool down which I believe can exceed the cap for the ulti. 40% natural cool down from items. Let's do the math now. rank 3 malphite ulti 80 seconds.

80x0.25= 20 (5 Stack umtimate hunter) 80x0.40= 32 (From items) 80x0.10= 8. (Presence of mind)

20+32+8=60

80-60=20

So with runes 40% CDR malphite ulti if he gets a kill will be 20 seconds.

SaezioOct 17, 20192 votes

Because obviously Malph spawns in the map at level 16 with 5 stacks of ulti hunter and 40% cdr.

He should be dead 3-4 times before he even gets his R. If not, you are playing your lane wrong. Very wrong.

Not to mention how he needs to go domination+precission for your scenario to work.

This is just a cheese build that can work MAYBE up until plat. It's like complaining about AP lucian

TyRamosOct 17, 20195 votes

{quoted}

Because obviously Malph spawns in the map at level 16 with 5 stacks of ulti hunter and 40% cdr.

He should be dead 3-4 times before he even gets his R. If not, you are playing your lane wrong. Very wrong.

Not to mention how he needs to go domination+precission for your scenario to work.

This is just a cheese build that can work MAYBE up until plat. It's like complaining about AP lucian

"Works maybe up to plat" "Works for 85% of the playerbase" Lol

Zero ShingetsuOct 17, 20191 votes

{quoted}

"Works maybe up to plat" "Works for 85% of the playerbase" Lol

So few people who watch streams and such realize just how much "up to plat" consumes. It really is quite funny to see these kinds of remarks.

Sinister AnubisOct 17, 20192 votes

Yes this is the perfered runes for AP malphite. Most malphites who go AP go mid lane and wait til 6 and have ludens before making big plays. He will then proceed to one shot whoever he is laning vs and then tranisition to team fighting and one shotting 2 or more people. I can even link you to a video of pro players and coaches talking about him and how he is freelo.

Love AnastasiaOct 17, 20192 votes

I just guess I wont see you crying for diversity in other posts. What do you think diversity is? yeah, be able to play malphite tank, ap or even ad.

Btw, im sure you were one of these guys saying malphite ap was troll until it did get popular

Iźuku MidoriyaOct 17, 20192 votes

The problem stems from tanks having high base damages along with him having decent scaling

FioraWillCarryOct 17, 20192 votes

I've tried AP Malphite a couple times and found it quite unimpressive. I've also been playing against this shit a lot on account of how popular it is all of a sudden and to be honest, it really isn't shit. I've found it no more problematic than say, a 10-0 Akali running around or an 8-1 Rengar and unlike those two champions, you can actually counter it quite easily.

If AP Malphite is wrecking a team then it's because that team is trash, not because Malphite is broken. AP Malphite is utterly fuckin useless against a team with even a slight idea of how to play. AP Malphite is good for cheesing wins off noobs. That's all it is, a cheese for quick wins vs unskilled players.

wolviusOct 17, 20191 votes

item 3046 , item 2420 , item 3163 , item 3091 ,bloodthirster shield, overheal shield, item 3157 since kaisa is a popular adc champ, shielding supports with any mr item and he can't oneshot. An ap malphite that can't one-shot a priority target or knock-up a cluster of enemies is useless, alot people aint going to give you much chance for multiperson knock-ups.

Believe me I know i've played enough of predator full AP malphite in aram to know how much the 600 shield from phantom dancer can fuck him, especially if they have lifesteal to draintack after his combo.

Oh item 3812 30% bleed effect can also help survive the burst.

Is AP malphite fair and interactive? No just like the ever increasing list of BS that is going to soon include executes on baron buff because its not like people don't hate pyke ult or champs that require the enemy to outplay themself to die.

Unlike most bullshit though malp has no escape and is fucking useless without ult as AP.

######also AP malp on support budget sounds bad, less gold income for AP items and lower leveling speed means he shouldn't be able make good use of his abilities base damage.