TANK YASUO AND YASUO NERFS WOO

Witch of Babylon·Aug 29, 2016·90 votes·5,918 views

Attack speed per level lowered to 2.5 from 3.2 Base attack speed also increased to [0.67] from [0.658]. Attack delay to -0.067 from -0.05 Steel Tempest (Q) - added to tooltip " is interruptible by crowd control " Last Breath (R) - secondary effect of increased bonus armor pen now only applies to Yasuo's critical strikes rather than all attacks. "For 15 seconds, Yasuo's critical strikes gain 50% Bonus Armor Penetration - this affects Armor from items, buffs, runes and masteries"

http://www.surrenderat20.net/2016/08/829-pbe-update.html

122 Comments

EnlegacyAug 29, 201675 votes

Wait did Riot actually listen to the community on the ult nerf???

ProfDrDeathAug 29, 201629 votes

Probably a (rare) case of Boards using their brains to give an effective nerf to a specific (and universally accepted) unhealthy playstyle of a champion that does not interfere with the intended primary playstyle.

Sightless66Aug 29, 201658 votes

For once, the boards had a good idea. It's amazing! We may never see this day come again!

Seriously though, well done to whoever suggested that. It was a very simple solution to a problem, and wasn't overly harsh to the intended playstyle.

ToastersaotAug 30, 201613 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/H3dUlFEl-make-yasuos-ult-armor-pen-apply-only-to-critical-strikes

Feelsgoodman riot listened

DeltaRavenAug 30, 201617 votes

You know, I'm liking this whole "Riot is listening to the community" thing. Let's hope the trend continues.

Gary B EnkelisAug 31, 20162 votes

We'd all be banned in no time.

[zombie-nunu-hearts]

Kidding!

AninLegions777Aug 30, 20164 votes

Boards is always full of good ideas if you are willing to look for them under the clutter of M&G posts.

TheorcheroAug 29, 201638 votes

Yasuo mains be like

https://i.gyazo.com/e19a59a1bb61db1f5963bc654e83dbe9.gif

dominusxAug 29, 20167 votes

no lmao same deal they just gotta go more dmg oriented fervor is still broken on him

JerulEonAug 29, 201629 votes

I'm actually pretty happy. Now I can play my main again instead of the meta slaves.

yay nibbersAug 30, 20164 votes

So much this. I couldn't play him at all last night because of all the people hopping on the bandwagon. >:^( He was either picked away from me or just banned every time. The nerfs aren't even that bad if you're doing his normal crit build. Q cooldown just scales slightly slower now. No big deal really.

Maximum MordeAug 30, 20162 votes

Nah hes still gonna be perma ban for probably about a month.

Sahn UzalAug 30, 20163 votes

Now lets wait untill people stop banning GP....

Red SilkAug 30, 20163 votes

Soo much this.

NøstalgiaAug 29, 20163 votes

actually not,was waiting for this for so long,hope people will hate him less and ban him less so i can actually play him also hope random fucks stop playing him because they were abusing an op build

Warlord ZudaneAug 30, 20166 votes

It's important to realize that true mains of any champ also want the trash 'mains' gone so they can enjoy their champ again.

Please nerf ZoeAug 30, 20163 votes

Agreed,my heart hurts whenever I see some yasuo wannabe main in my games who goes 10-0 without doing a fuck but only going PD/TF+frozen mallet+tank items and faceroll everyone when he missed every Q and uses W at the wrong times,it's just sad

Wind WhistlerAug 30, 20165 votes

{quoted}

Yasuo mains be like

https://i.gyazo.com/e19a59a1bb61db1f5963bc654e83dbe9.gif

Actually, no. I've seen several ACTUAL Yasuo mains COMPLAINING about Tanksuo. One of them even said that he'd be willing for Yasuo to get overnerfed to stop it.

ArkatraAug 30, 20162 votes

The moment you know where the gif is from and suddenly remember the whole video ...

I think Yasuo mains will be fine with this, at least they can play their champion.

Alistair34Aug 29, 201613 votes

omg people rejoice that shit has finally been nerfed.

Jeanne fan clubAug 30, 20167 votes

I hope everyone can look at what happened here. They saw that currently everyone is complaining about yasuo, then as soon as objective evidence that Yasuo was shitting on everyone came out (his winrate) they finally had every reason they needed to nerf him. They then took an idea on a thread from a while ago that I'm pretty sure not a single Rioteer left a comment on.

Its not like Riot is leaving people OP on purpose, when everyone was complaining about him, he had a 51-52% winrate. In Riots eyes, Numbers around 44 - 56% is healthy (outliers like Kalista are left low because of their potential in coordinated play). Of course there are different accepted winrates for different champions, when the winrate is high for a champion where the community avg games are very low (reworked mordekaiser/ veiger last season for example), then Riot would typically either wait a patch to see the end result, or hotfix the champion with something small within a week. Yasuo however has about 110 avg games per player. since the avg is so high, then it makes sense that yasuo players would have higher winrates than normal, just based on the fact that yasuo players have so many games on their champion. Thats probably why Riot took so long with yasuo in the first place.

People just need to calm down for a minute. Its not like Riot has the direct answer to everything at any given moment. And even when they do see a problem, they need to figure out how to balance the champion without destroying their identity, or neglecting the problem. Typically riot step in to nerf a champion once they both lose their identity, and when their winrate is much to high/low. Yasuo's winrate only started being ridiculous this patch.

SevixysAug 30, 20164 votes

This. Rational thinking is the key for everything. Sadly, it doesn't happen often in Boards.

Jeanne fan clubAug 30, 20165 votes

People on the gameplay boards are driven by emotion, not rational statistics. Sadly, this is a behavior that happens in real life as well.

GULAG 4 UAug 30, 20166 votes

But the boards will bitch about normal yasuo now, they're not satisfied.

GULAG 4 UAug 29, 20165 votes

Riot listened to the comooneetee on the ult nerf? Damn

Fuh QueueAug 29, 20164 votes

Thank the holy Donger.

Lmao Get MoonedAug 29, 20164 votes

The armor pen only applying on crits isn't a nerf at all, what yasuo doesn't have 100% crit by 20 minute mark anyway?

Critmaster GarenAug 29, 201640 votes

{quoted}

The armor pen only applying on crits isn't a nerf at all, what yasuo doesn't have 100% crit by 20 minute mark anyway?

bruiser yasuo. which is currently his highest win % build and not his intended playstile.

this nerf specifically targets his crit less bruiser build. his crit build is sitting at 53% winrate, which is acceptable.

EnlegacyAug 29, 201613 votes

His crit build will probably be dropped 1-2% from the attack speed nerfs, but since that makes it 52-51%, I think that is a very acceptable change to get rid of this bruiser yasuo BS.

ReposerAug 30, 201611 votes

Tbh that's a much higher winrate than he SHOULD have, though atm, like PermabannedGaren said, it's inflated due to the strong ult AA bug. Once that's fixed, I'd want him to have a sub 50 WR, but no lower than, like, 47-48%. He should be like Azir in that sense.

OH MAN NOT GOODAug 30, 20162 votes

[deleted]

LatetotheRaceAug 30, 201613 votes

Just build him as intended and you'll do fine.

HigeAug 30, 20162 votes

these are good nerfs but... the whole bonus penetration man... I don't know

I mean, it's way better than getting all that armor pen on every auto, even if yasuo can obtain 100% crit chance with 2 items... but, doesn't it feel sluggish? like, he's already doing a critical strike, does it need to also penetrate armor? given how easy it is to proc his ult...

wouldn't it be better to simply give him critical dmg increase per target hit? like 10% per target and never more than 50% if he ults a whole enemy team.

I honestly don't see why he needs to be a tank melter on top of highly mobile, yasuo SHOULD have a hard time fighting against tanks, after all he's supposed to be a skirmisher no?

Not to mention the duration of this buff... 15 seconds... like what?? teamfights in which yasuo ults don't exceed 5 seconds! this literally means that anyone who gets knocked up is pretty much dead, there is NO way that someone will outlast that armor pen buff.

GrReaper96Aug 30, 20167 votes

They did this to discourage tank yasuo, forcing him to buy crit

HigeAug 30, 20161 votes

as far as I understand... isn't tank yasuo simply yasuo with a item 3022 ? you can build this on yasuo and follow up with item 3046 item 3031 and you're set...

not to mention that they in fact increased the speed on his attack animation, meaning that while he has less attack speed per level, he autoattacks faster and has better base AS so building AS is more efficient than ever, all you need is a phantom dancer to fill in your needs of AS and then start critting here and there (60%)...

My point being, they may be nerfing tank yasuo a tiiiiiny bit, but they are buffing regular yasuo by a TON.

also for clarification sake's, here's how the whole change looks thanks to Surrenderat20

Yasuo

Attack speed per level lowered to 2.5 from 3.2
Base attack speed also increased to [0.67] from [0.658].
- Attack delay to -0.067 from -0.05

Attack delay refers to the time it takes him to complete an autoattack, the lesser the value, the faster he completes it.

SevixysAug 30, 20166 votes

If I remember correctly, they have a nerf for item 3022 in the same pbe cycle - adding HP and decreasing AD given. item 3748 treatment. Tank/Bruiser yasuo has also included item 3078 item 3065 item 3742 item 3053 often.

HigeAug 30, 20161 votes

Uhm I see, well... his ult is definitely staying behind with this kind of build... but isn't the reason why he's good when built tank is that his bases are high enough? plus, the changes to his AS actually makes Trinity quite more efficient, so yeah he won't penetrate armor anymore but everything that made him super powerful is still in place :S

Battlecast SonaAug 30, 20163 votes

except none of it is.

The nerfs perfectly targetted the problems - Yasuo's Q cd being too short (due to high base aspd growth [and the fact that his base stats reduce the CD of his Q which c'mon riot which other character in the game gets CDR on an ability just for leveling up even without putting points into the ability]) which was nerfed is great because it means especially early Yasuo has less access to nados. Steel Tempest (Q) can be cancelled now by CC, which is a huge QoL change for anyone fighting against him (you can actually stop him from knocking you up!)

The ult change specifically targetted Tanksuo/Bruisersuo, which was his highest winrate and most toxic build, by forcing crit. Yes he can still go like IE/PD into tank items if he really wants but that isn't the build that was good - and while Triforce is "better" on him now the full tanksuo build with no armor pen no longer works unless you also cap crit, which is basically what Riot wanted - you have to make damage to deal damage instead of making triforce into full tank items (with fmallet) and becoming this unkillable high damage monsterbeast. At least now Yasuo either has to make crit or armor pen to deal with armor stacking, instead of just coping with it for free.

Teridax68Aug 30, 20163 votes

Skirmishers/melee carries are typically given some form of tank-melting capabilities (e.g. true damage, percent health damage, armor penetration, etc.) because they're meant to be good at dealing with whomever they're up against, since they usually hit the front line first in any major fight. Unlike assassins, they're also meant to be good at target-agnostic DPS, so they should be able to take anyone down given a bit of time (tank-oriented mechanics also prevent them from bursting squishies too hard, which a pure increase to critical damage would do).

With that said, I'm not a fan of the armor penetration effect: the high moment with Yasuo's ult comes from its suspension and damage, and the subsequent steroid was never really that appreciable, despite being tremendously strong. Now it's going to be a bit more situational, or at least pushed farther towards the mid-late game, and therefore more difficult to access (Yasuo literally cannot make use of this effect without items or runes), which is kind of the point, but also generally not the best power allocation.

What I'm not understanding very well is why Riot is deploying all of these per-champion adjustments against specific tanky builds when the core issue is with tanky builds being too good on squishy champions in the first place. Every single change that forces champions onto squishier builds makes their power more item-dependent, which also makes them more binary and more likely to snowball, particularly since squishier melee champions tend to have less stable success rates. I agree that Yasuo, along with many other champions, needs to lose an appropriate amount of power from tanky builds, but so far these kinds of balance changes have been a game of champion whack-a-mole, where specific champions get targeted one after the other once they pop up with issues (or, in the case of Ekko or Master Yi, once they pop back up with issues over and over again) and giving them specific nerfs, instead of addressing the core problem incentivizing players to build tanky. We need less damage in the game overall, and we need champions to have stable enough base power to not be too useless without items, without degenerating into builds that let them negate their core weaknesses with no real tradeoffs.

HigeAug 30, 20161 votes

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I think the difference between an assassin and a skirmisher should be a tad more distinct?

When Riot speaks about assassins (and they have spoken about them quite a lot thanks to the upcoming update) they talk about the fantasy of assassinating anyone, meaning being target agnostic, so in reality, assassins should be able to kill tanks... and skirmishers too?... uh... that's pretty odd?

I have no saying in this matter but I think that Skirmishers should be more focused around sustained damage, exactly like a marksman but in melee form, an skirmisher has tools to deal with tanks GIVEN THE TIME to do so, take Fiora for example, if a tank allows her to hit all 4 points, the tank is doomed, same happens with MasterYi , he has a harder time killing tanks, but if they let him attack them for long, they'll die :S

this SHOULD be the case for Yasuo as well but given that his ult takes no skill (if an ally knocks the enemy up that is) he functions more like an assassin because he CAN kill anyone in a couple AA, compare his damage with Fiora's or Yi and Yasuo's dmg is off the chart.

Teridax68Aug 30, 20162 votes

{quoted}

I agree with most of what you're saying, but I think the difference between an assassin and a skirmisher should be a tad more distinct?

I kind of agree, skirmishers often turn into assassins if they get fed enough (Yasuo's probably the best example of that), though generally there are also major differences in mobility (skirmishers have persistent, short-range mobility that lets them stick to any target, assassins have bursty-long range mobility that lets them access the back line) and playstyle (skirmishers are all about dealing constant DPS and surviving damage, much like a fighter, whereas assassins are about killing their mark and retreating) that differentiate them. Even just their damage (e.g. percent health versus flat) often places them in different lanes.

{quoted}

When Riot speaks about assassins (and they have spoken about them quite a lot thanks to the upcoming update) they talk about the fantasy of assassinating anyone, meaning being target agnostic, so in reality, assassins should be able to kill tanks... and skirmishers too?... uh... that's pretty odd?

I don't think Riot said anything about assassins being target-agnostic; if anything, they've mentioned several times that they wanted assassins to not be able to kill frontliners well, because assassins are meant to be back line-focused, and being forced to fight a tank or a fighter should be a failure for them in that respect (it would also make it far too easy for frontliners to die if assassins had heavily target-agnostic damage).

{quoted}

I have no saying in this matter but I think that Skirmishers should be more focused around sustained damage, exactly like a marksman but in melee form, an skirmisher has tools to deal with tanks GIVEN THE TIME to do so, take for example, if a tank allows her to hit all 4 points, the tank is doomed, same happens with , he has a harder time killing tanks, but if they let him attack them for long, they'll die :S

That's pretty much the intended function and playstyle of skirmishers. Perhaps that isn't so much the case now with tanky DPS builds and overly bursty damage builds, but ultimately the fantasy of any skirmisher is to be able to kill anyone given enough time.

{quoted}

this SHOULD be the case for as well but given that his ult takes no skill (if an ally knocks the enemy up that is) he functions more like an assassin because he CAN kill anyone in a couple AA, compare his damage with Fiora's or Yi and Yasuo's dmg is off the chart.

I'd say his ult takes a bit more skill than it looks, as does Yasuo in general, but I agree that he tends to be one of the more assassin-y skirmishers around (though right now that's also due to his extra AA bug). My complaint with his armor pen steroid was that its situationality made him less good at killing tanks and thereby more focused overall on popping squishies: if he had a more reliable way of dealing target-agnostic damage, e.g. current health damage on his ult or the like (not that that needs to happen), he'd be able to fulfill his skirmisher fantasy better against tanks while having less overall burst against squishies.

DunkinNoobsAug 29, 20161 votes

The Ult nerf is fine and probably a good overall change. The AS nerf? I don't see the point of it. All it does is lower his build diversity by forcing you to build more AS to reach that critical 1.4 AS. Perhaps that's the point.

StrawberrycocoaAug 29, 201620 votes

It seems to fit along the lines of, "no more building tanky and riding base stats for damage"

DunkinNoobsAug 29, 20162 votes

I'm ok with that. My only beef with it is that Yasuo's ult damage is effectively reduced at all times because his ult is not an auto attack and thus cannot crit. So no more 50% bonus armor pen on the ult damage itself, and the ult already has pretty low damage.

Tyto MorsAug 30, 20166 votes

the armor pen applied to his ult? i thought it was only after that ult that he got the armor pen.

DunkinNoobsAug 30, 20167 votes

He gets the armor pen the moment he blinks, so yes, the damage from his ult benefits from the armor pen.

Tyto MorsAug 30, 20166 votes

damn, thats stupid

Sir FuzziAug 30, 201611 votes

Not that I don't love Yasuo and his design, but I think a champion whose mechanic is 'double one stat' is stupid to begin with.

Tyto MorsAug 30, 20163 votes

i would also agree with you on that, that and the low cd on his abilties besides windwall.

Akali is SO HOTAug 29, 20165 votes

They're nerfing his base stats so he can't just go full tank with no attack speed an still get good stats to go along with it. If you want some attack speed you gotta build it instead of getting a good amount of attack speed for free.