@Riot: Why Is Aatrox A "Light Fighter"?

Dreamspitter··26 votes·2,703 views

The problem with Aatrox is that his revive passive takes so much of his power budget, that he has greatly reduced armor and hp compared to other fighters.

A "Light Fighter" they called him. First of his kind.

#Yasuo is also a light fighter.

Squishy melee carry, with periodic shield, wall (also gives him something to do for his team when not fed), and buttloads of crit). Fiora was stated as being reworked into a "light fighter" a long time ago, but I've not played the rework.

Thing is Aatrox can't really burst, and cant mitigate damage except by sustain (tis why melee carries in Dota have Black King Bar). He's squish and because he's not good at much else besides being an initiator with what some have dubbed "a mini malphite" ult in Q he get's built VERY differently from Yas.** He builds 1 or 2 damage items** and bulks up with health, armor, and magic resist. If you're ahead you can build more damage, like Ghostblade (which gives crit, and also gives atk speed active for after you revive with no bloodwell)

As for things he can do for his team, Aatrox's lore mentioned him being an inspiring leader and many thought he would have some ability like this, but many were disappointed he didnt. Something like that could be attached to Ult perhaps, giving him a buff aura around him for his team while using it.

#About Types of Fighters

Juggernauts (also known rarely as Off-Tanks) are the toughest (or tankiest) of fighters, but also the least mobile. These heavy-duty champions boast powerful defenses in addition to tremendous natural resilience (or tankiness), and while entering a fight is particularly difficult for a juggernaut, actual combat heavily favors them once they are in range. Juggernauts tend to favor heavily defensive builds, though what few offensive items they purchase significantly enhance their already potent innate damage.

Bruisers (also known as Divers) are the most well-rounded of fighters: while not as tough as juggernauts or as loaded with damage as light fighters, divers blend the best of both worlds, mixing in natural toughness and damage with powerful bursts of mobility. While still short-ranged overall, divers excel at entering fights and initiating combat, though once in they have only their natural defenses to protect them against incoming damage. Divers tend to build equal parts damage and defense, allowing them to remain a constant threat without sacrificing too much survivability.

Light Fighters (also known as Melee Carries) are the most offensively oriented fighters: favoring damage-heavy ability sets and builds, light fighters possess situational defenses that allow them to dodge, mitigate or block incoming attacks as they unleash a tremendous stream of damage against their opponents. However, they are also innately fragile, and failure to activate their defenses at the right time usually results in their death. Light fighters tend to be highly mobile, and while they are still vulnerable to kiting, it is nonetheless difficult to keep them completely out of a fight, short of killing them

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion/Champion_Classes

Here's how I would change him.

Passive: Remove Revive Q: give it charges that regenerate over time, up to 3 or 4 at max rank (if needed, only the 1st will knock up on hit); alternatively give it a LOW cd and let it periodically gain a charge of knock up that will allow it to knock up on hit. W: Mostly the same , allow Blood Price to CRIT, maybe allow Blood Thirst to grant shield that would stack with Bloodthirster. IDK, if new BT didnt exist, that effect would be perfect. E: Same R: Add team supportive aura for teamfights

This would give him more room to build damage, as well as crit.

The ALTERNATIVE, is to just buff him and adjust him from Light Fighter into a Bruiser -a champ subtype that makes sense with his builds.

Front Line: Assassins, Initiatory Tanks, and Bruisers Wall: Tanks protecting back line, Non-tank Support Back Line: APC and ADC

Is how it usually goes. Aatrox bt lore leads groups so he should be in the front, but there's more than one way to do it.

14 Comments

junglerboy165 votes

They need to cut back on his AP ratios really hard, buff his AD ratios across the board, and makes his W have a % current HP cost as opposed to an AD ratio cost.

That instantly allows him more room to build damage without being limited by his rather pathetic scaling and wonky ratios.

Also, remove his R's AS buff in exchange for better scaling on his passive Steroid, and then give him a more meaningful buff while his ult is on, maybe something like a 10% AD increase aura for himself and allies.

Dreamspitter1 votes

{quoted}

They need to cut back on his AP ratios really hard, buff his AD ratios across the board, and makes his W have a % current HP cost as opposed to an AD ratio cost.

That instantly allows him more room to build damage without being limited by his rather pathetic scaling and wonky ratios.

Also, remove his R's AS buff in exchange for better scaling on his passive Steroid, and then give him a more meaningful buff while his ult is on, maybe something like a 10% AD increase aura for himself and allies.

Why cut back on them at all?

As if they need to be nerfed, to buff the AD ratios? How often does he get to use them?

Teridax682 votes

I wrote that fighter subclass description! Thanks for putting it here. :D

I also agree with Critmaster Garen that Aatrox feels much more like a bruiser than like any other kind of fighter, particularly since he's really well-rounded (likely too much so) and expected to build about equal parts tankiness and damage. The issue with him right now is that he's not going to do very well no matter what he builds: if he goes full damage, he dies far too quickly (and kills himself faster, too), if he goes full tank he doesn't deal that much damage and carries little overall threat, and if he dips into both he just ends up being mediocre at everything. He likely needs some very large core changes (his sustain can't really be powerful and healthy at the same time, for example), and hopefully those should make him feel better for building tanky DPS. I also agree with you that Aatrox really deserves to have his lore bleed (ha) more into his kit, and he'd totally rock a team buff on his ult. I also think he's probably the most cookie-cutter champion in the game right now, and could really use some effects that would allow him to make a truly unique contribution to his team, which an ally-empowering ultimate would totally achieve. Considering Aatrox is also a champion who really wants to kill people, having an ult that fills both himself and allies with some kind of bloodlust could offer amazing synergy with both his team and himself.

Dreamspitter1 votes

{quoted}

I wrote that fighter subclass description! Thanks for putting it here. :D

I also agree with Critmaster Garen that Aatrox feels much more like a bruiser than like any other kind of fighter, particularly since he's really well-rounded (likely too much so) and expected to build about equal parts tankiness and damage. The issue with him right now is that he's not going to do very well no matter what he builds: if he goes full damage, he dies far too quickly (and kills himself faster, too), if he goes full tank he doesn't deal that much damage and carries little overall threat, and if he dips into both he just ends up being mediocre at everything. He likely needs some very large core changes (his sustain can't really be powerful and healthy at the same time, for example), and hopefully those should make him feel better for building tanky DPS. I also agree with you that Aatrox really deserves to have his lore bleed (ha) more into his kit, and he'd totally rock a team buff on his ult. I also think he's probably the most cookie-cutter champion in the game right now, and could really use some effects that would allow him to make a truly unique contribution to his team, which an ally-empowering ultimate would totally achieve. Considering Aatrox is also a champion who really wants to kill people, having an ult that fills both himself and allies with some kind of bloodlust could offer amazing synergy with both his team and himself.

Cookie cutter? But he doesnt even have % Health damage on E or something!

Teridax681 votes

Fun fact, his ult used to deal percent maximum health magic damage at some point while he was on the PBE.

Critmaster Garen1 votes

aatrox isnt a light fighter. hes a bruiser. and he was intended to be a bruiser from the start.

his passive scales with hp. higher health costs mean you fill up that bar more quickly and gain your attack speed bonus faster.

people just tried to build him like a melee adc and failed. in every instance ive seen the champion in action he was more successful when built bruiser than when built squishy.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

In solo Q melee adc build is better. Why? Cuz tanky requires a team make your psuedo-tanking useful. Good luck with that.

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sleeper Cell,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2LQK79Rm,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-24T15:38:35.431+0000)

In solo Q melee adc build is better. Why? Cuz tanky requires a team make your psuedo-tanking useful. Good luck with that.

And how the hell do you do that without getting blown up and not even lasting 4-5 seconds? I just can't live, or get any kills without building resists. UNLESS....you just happen to get waaay ahead from the start. That is the only way I have managed that.

OyddAWqJ5r1 votes

Literally as you say lmao. Just kinda gotta snowball. Aatrox so feast or famine. If u can get a dmg + GA then ur pretty much good from there teamfight wise so u can keep building more dmg n even tho ur more glassy canon ur totes ok cuz ur revives can give a 7 second psuedotank on top of your already 1-3 second psuedotanking with ur LS/onhitheal. if they ever lay off u, u get to dump the damages.

Dreamspitter1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2LQK79Rm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-24T14:34:55.356+0000)

aatrox isnt a light fighter. hes a bruiser. and he was intended to be a bruiser from the start.

his passive scales with hp. higher health costs mean you fill up that bar more quickly and gain your attack speed bonus faster.

people just tried to build him like a melee adc and failed. in every instance ive seen the champion in action he was more successful when built bruiser than when built squishy.

Morello disagrees.

http://forums.na.leagueoflegends.com/board/showthread.php?t=3550943&page=11#post38739500

Originally, he was Melee ADC, but moved to "light fighter" in some balance testing.

Which actually confuses the meaning of the term even more.

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

Just go sated, botrk, tank. You'll be fine

TurquoiseYoshi5 votes

You shouldn't need Sated for your kit to be good. It should be at least a decent kit normally, and then get OP when you use Sated because it's incredibly overpowered.

Shénzhì1 votes

I'm fond of Aatrox. He is an unusual character. I like how that correlates with the mystery of Aatrox. Where story and lore backgrounds may change, he's still some sort of ancient being probably not so different from the ranks of celestials and angels. But he's all about the living blade. A blade is a frontline item made for battle and battles are made in wars. But anyway...

{quoted}

Passive: Remove Revive

Disagree.

{quoted}

Q: give it charges that regenerate over time, up to 3 or 4 at max rank (if needed, only the 1st will knock up on hit); alternatively give it a LOW cd and let it periodically gain a charge of knock up that will allow it to knock up on hit.

Agree. I understand this to give him mobility. Those who were knocked-up could simply not be knocked-up again (like Rek'Sai unburrow). Consequently, the %Health resource usage ought to only take effect if landing on minions/monsters/champions. Subsequently, landing on nothing lengthens the cooldown of the next cast:

  • [Q] lands on minion/monster/champion: Take %HP and normal cooldown (between charges).
  • [Q] lands on nothing: No %HP taken and extended cooldown (between charges) (call this a control measure against excessive mobility)

{quoted}

W: Mostly the same , allow Blood Price to CRIT, maybe allow Blood Thirst to grant shield that would stack with Bloodthirster. IDK, if new BT didnt exist, that effect would be perfect.

Disagree, but... Maybe both could allow a stack of increased attack range. Aatrox's Massacre [R] would max the attack range stacks.

{quoted}

E: Same

Could use a visual update.

{quoted}

R: Add team supportive aura for teamfights

Disagree. What I'm about to suggest will allow players knowing of Aatrox to be confident of his Blood Well revive. All that is needed is an inspiring animation maybe even a music overlay for him and his allies. It would be amazing. :O


  1. What I've noticed about Aatrox is his Base HP start or Base Scaling HP feels too weak so maybe that could be adjusted.

  2. His reliance on items is his reliance on gold income. Often in a lane (particularly against Riven or Rengar) where he cannot do anything he must do something else to secure income. Without Machette, he can still claim early-game Monster gold. It is important this is kept if not made easier.

  3. Because of his reliance on items, which sometimes have to be used before Blood Well revive, he needs to be ready after reviving! BLOOD WELL REVIVE:

  • (new) Item Passives & Actives cooldowns are reset after reviving with Blood Well. (Blood Well revive will have a HUD effect notifying player. Prompts player for action)
  • Some items may be denied this unique cooldown reset. (e.g. Guardian Angel, Blade of the Ruined King)
  1. Being a Light Fighter / Duelist may mean timely execution of offensive and defensive abilities, which is fine. A problem with Aatrox is he has to go out of the way to prepare for battle (build resource before battle), and so he's sometimes without potential. This needs to change. BLOOD WELL READINESS:
  • (new) ACTIVE Blood Well: Passively generates resource from nearby enemies and allies receiving damage. Denied passive if using Blood Price [W].
  • (new) INACTIVE Blood Well: Incrementally quickens the cooldown of inactive Blood Well if: stay out of combat with champions. (CDR Increment resets if PvP) (inactive Blood Well unique animation: stand still; does the login screen pose)
  1. Items facilitating his function as a diver could also be changed. One item in particular:
  • (updated) Ohmwrecker: Active is now changed to a Passive with a cooldown management to alleviate misuse. ... and maybe some stat changes.
  1. He's a fighter. Abilities: Some of them have to be cast independently after another ability. Aatrox must be allowed to cast abilities while another is in progress.
  • [E] then [Q] with new animation.
  • [Q] then [E] with new animation.
  • [P] Revive and [Q] with new animation; prompts counterplay.
  • [P] Revive and [R] with new animation & inspiring audio layer. (audio layer for the duration of battle applies to nearby allies and spreads. minimized beats if opt to prioritize DJ Sona music)
  1. MOST IMPORTANTLY: [Q] avoid incoming crowd-control effects. Make Dark Flight reliable for escaping!!

SUMMARY: What have I suggested? He's now more reliable in teamfights, which can happen at any moment. He's more fluent with his abilities lubricating his burst tactics. Feels better. His strength as an initiator is fortified. His mobility-to-immobility is corrected with [Q] charges you suggested. However, he is still momentarily reluctant to battle after dying but is able to ready himself quicker.


#[5.17 Sci-Fi Update Mecha Skins?]

Messaiga1 votes

Aatrox is historically difficult for Riot to balance with his current kit. This is mainly due to his W and E. He gets to poke and waveclear with his E, while sustaining with W in lane. This is very hard to balance because when he's strong, there is low counterplay in his lane. Drain tanks are good designs when their sustain has a meaningful cooldown, cost, or requirement. Aatrox can just sustain whilst farming, due to lack of CD or cost to it. I think a few core concepts that fit with Aatrox (but may not exist at the moment) are:

  • Constant healing throughout a battle; very difficult to finish off.
  • Reliant on auto-attacks. Low burst but high DPS.
  • Strong team fighter, turns around battles just as in his lore.

I came up with a rework idea that embodies these ideas a while back while making him much healthier. He's got heavy potential for his character and could easily find a niche with the right work done.

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