Holy crap, you guys complain a lot

uJhisper·Mar 11, 2015·125 votes·6,866 views

I rarely visit the boards (hardly ever) but when I do everybody is complaining. Without visiting the boards I wouldn't really be sure who is broken or not, thank you? I am not really sure how to put this but I think you guys need to realize that not everything will be 100% balanced, ever. Some pokemon are stronger others, some neopets are stronger than others & some club penguin puffles will always be cooler.

I totally respect the fact that some of you might be angry at a specific champion for being OP or whatnot. However, I think we should cool it a bit because this site has way too much negativity at the moment. Thank you.

I love and someone told me that she's not a good support anymore & now I feel . Why? I enjoy playing her, I don't care if she's broken, weak, overpowered, ugly...

146 Comments

UPfreelyMar 11, 201542 votes

try playing Veigar against the popular mobile mids Zed Yasuo Ahri Leblanc with Nidalee JarvanIV LeeSin ganking you and then try telling us its not rage inducing that he got olafed when he wasnt even that good.

Cloud273Mar 11, 20155 votes

{quoted}

try playing against the popular mobile mids with ganking you and then try telling us its not rage inducing that he got olafed when he wasnt even that good.

Yasuo does not have the mobility of the other three. Not even close. He needs to have a target to dash to, which the other 3 do not need.

not a starburstMar 11, 20154 votes

Yes, but as long as Yasuo has enemies, he can dash infinitely.

Cloud NothingsMar 12, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Abyssal Plunge,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1vQ9o6KH,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-03-11T20:15:34.773+0000)

Yes, but as long as Yasuo has enemies, he can dash infinitely.

He can dash to an enemy, but when then? He put himself in the hands of multiple enemies. Ahri can go in, go out, without the need of a second target. The same applies with Zed if he ults, he can go in, and out. The same applies with Le Blanc, and her method is the best. Nidalee, well she just has her pounces.

MogwailuxMar 12, 20152 votes

Ahri's dash is an ultimate. How can you compare that to yauos infinite no cooldown dash? she dashes 3 times then waits a full minute or so before she can dash again. where as yasuo can dash dash dash....etc etc...and his ultimate has a dash as well. So....dash?

Silents429Mar 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

try playing against the popular mobile mids with ganking you and then try telling us its not rage inducing that he got olafed when he wasnt even that good.

So what? It's not like he is the only champion ever to simply not work in the current meta, the meta changes constantly and eventually immobile mages will make their comeback, along with tanks and other roles or champions, just like it has for 5 years.

UPfreelyMar 12, 20156 votes

alright lets gut the 8 bonus champions i listed and 'wait' until the meta shifts for them to be viable again. what? that's unreasonable? you don't say :)

Silents429Mar 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

alright lets gut the 8 bonus champions i listed and 'wait' until the meta shifts for them to be viable again. what? that's unreasonable? you don't say :)

It has always worked that way, people bitched and moaned back when other champions fell out of favor before, and they are going to do it again. Change Viegar to somehow be mobile, he will fall out with the other mobile champions later on too.

Not every champion is going to work all the time, and Viegar mains are bitchy because a nonmobile mage isn't doing well. Well no shit, none of them are.

UPfreelyMar 12, 20154 votes

but this isn't veigar just being veigar, he didn't just die off from a meta shift. he got murdered in cold blood. he finally started seeing some reasonable play; so they gave him some fancy new shoes and tossed him in the river.

so yeah immobile mages arn't doing well, and it's plain to see why.

Silents429Mar 12, 20155 votes

{quoted}

but this isn't veigar just being veigar, he didn't just die off from a meta shift. he got murdered in cold blood. he finally started seeing some reasonable play; so they gave him some fancy new shoes and tossed him in the river.

so yeah immobile mages arn't doing well, and it's plain to see why.

He isn't doing well because of players, No shit you are having a hard time landing his stun, you are used to the might skillful instant AOE stun that was nearly impossible to friggin miss.

And all people have done is tried applying his old playstyle to his new one, and then they see problems, when they shouldn't.

TBadgerMar 12, 20151 votes

I am sick of Veigar mains bitching, but there is a difference between heavily nerfing a champion that, whilst not 'healthy' was by no means over powered. Yeah most immobile mages aren't doing well, but most are doing better than veigar.

Silents429Mar 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I am sick of Veigar mains bitching, but there is a difference between heavily nerfing a champion that, whilst not 'healthy' was by no means over powered. Yeah most immobile mages aren't doing well, but most are doing better than veigar.

He is getting his tuning like any other tuning, but we still need to read the mains bitch and moan because a giant fucking instant AOE stun is somehow okay in their books because he is immobile "OH BUT HOW WILL HE HANDLE THE MOBILE CHAMPIONS?!" Then don't pick a damn Viegar against Ahri, Zed, Or LB. The Immobile vs Mobile is a massive problem on its own and Viegar doesn't deserve to be excempt from balance just because he isn't doing well against them.

This short fucker could 1 shot people with a point and click ability late game and stun the enemy team while he does it. This had no counter play to it, and nothing could be done. He wasn't 'overpower' just had an unhealthy kit.

I have seen new viegar players, I witnessed people missing stuns and now they are landing them again, They are actually learning to lead and time things better. Of course you aren't going to stun someone if you try using it when they have their blinks or dashes up, it worked that way before.

GorszMar 12, 20151 votes

You're bronze.

You see bronze veigars playing against bronze players.

You have no credibility.

Also, anyone would bitch if they drastically changed a champion for the worst that you played for years.

Now mr bronze super noob is saying Veigar had no counter play. Lmao. Ok noob, why havent people been spaming OP no counterplay veigar for the last few years?

Explain.

Silents429Mar 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

You're bronze.

You see bronze veigars playing against bronze players.

You have no credibility.

Also, anyone would bitch if they drastically changed a champion for the worst that you played for years.

Now mr bronze super noob is saying Veigar had no counter play. Lmao. Ok noob, why havent people been spaming OP no counterplay veigar for the last few years?

Explain.

Holy shit seriously?

I am not any less credible then anyone else complaining or carrying on with what they think on this games balance. Regardless of my rank, which means jack considering I don't play ranked.

Most of the people who bitch on these forums about anything are in low ranks or no ranks, it doesn't mean anything.

Ok noob, why havent people been spaming OP no counterplay veigar for the last few years?

Really? I said his big ass instant AOE stun had no counterplay, never said Veigar as a champion didn't.

GorszMar 12, 20151 votes

Banshees Veil, QSS, Cleanse.

High cooldown on his E

Silents429Mar 12, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Banshees Veil, QSS, Cleanse.

High cooldown on his E

Oh I'm sorry items don't count as counterplay. Try again.

GorszMar 13, 20151 votes

Cleanse is a summoner spell.

And yes, items do. Items are a core part of the game. Just like Zed is fine because of hourglass, remember?

Silents429Mar 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Cleanse is a summoner spell.

And yes, items do. Items are a core part of the game. Just like Zed is fine because of hourglass, remember?

No I am pretty sure people went on and on about the hourglass not being a counter to Zed. Try again.

GorszMar 13, 20151 votes

I dont need to try again.

Items are indeed an integral part of the game.

PKnowledgeMar 12, 20153 votes

And all people have done is tried applying his old playstyle to his new one, and then they see problems, when they shouldn't.

Please, master, teach me how to play Veigar !

UPfreelyMar 12, 20151 votes

so let me geuss what his new playstyle is, support right? i can appreciate that you may have to use his stun in a new different way but he has lost **all **reliability as a burst mage. and when you don't have any defensible options, that's a pretty huge deal. his kit just doesn't work anymore, if he had something to setup his stun that'd be different, but he doesn't.

Silents429Mar 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

so let me geuss what his new playstyle is, support right? i can appreciate that you may have to use his stun in a new different way but he has lost **all **reliability as a burst mage. and when you don't have any defensible options, that's a pretty huge deal. his kit just doesn't work anymore, if he had something to setup his stun that'd be different, but he doesn't.

The point and click nukes aren't reliable at all, Totally. Mhm.

UPfreelyMar 12, 20153 votes

you mean his ult? cuz that's all he has now.

Silents429Mar 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

you mean his ult? cuz that's all he has now.

You mean that point and click insta death? Oh yes what a shame to be stuck with such a terrible ability.

PKnowledgeMar 12, 20154 votes

Please refrain for posting stupid nonsense if you don't even know the champ. Without dfg, and unless you're in late game, his R can't OS anyone.

Silents429Mar 12, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Please refrain for posting stupid nonsense if you don't even know the champ. Without dfg, and unless you're in late game, his R can't OS anyone.

I do in fact know the champion, and it doesn't matter his ult is still easily capable of one shoting, and his stun can still be landed. I have played him in Season 3 a few times and again early Season 4, I had at the time read well into his wiki on the specifics of his abilities, and have seen more then enough games with him to be able to have a firm stance on this situation.

PKnowledgeMar 13, 20151 votes

Please. Of course Veigar can OS an AP in late game. But you wont see him OS anyone else with just his ult unless he has 1200+ AP. Just do the maths.

IsefenothMar 12, 20151 votes

In many pro games immobile mages(Xerath etc) have been blind picked and they have been succesful...

l Main RenektonMar 13, 20151 votes

He has CC to defend himself to some extent. Plus he is a backline mage so with good positioning and his own peel, he usually functions better than most other immobile mages)

JustMyBassCannonMar 11, 201533 votes

{quoted}

everybody is complaining

That's sort of the point.

The forums are a place for discussing the game. In a section dedicated to feedback on the balance of the game, you're going to run into a majority of people complaining about X, Y and Zed (particularly Zed in some cases).

Now, personally speaking, I would love it if people would learn to format their complaint and give it some thought. It would be even better if they'd also look through the boards and find a thread talking about the subject they want to discuss, so they can get into a discussion (unless it's too big or isn't quite the same subject they want to discuss).

But, really, I wouldn't change it other than that. There are times where I wish people could post less childish-sounding threads...but the point of this section is to talk about the game's balance and design, and a lot of that involves complaining about what needs work. It's nice to see the occasional, "Thanks for this well-designed bit of the game" thread, but it accomplishes much less than criticism.

Kuroi86Mar 11, 201521 votes

Welcome to the League of Legends, where a hand full of champs need number tweaks.

Of course, if you ask the players, the creators of this game have no idea what they are doing nor did they ever and in fact Riot should fire every employee and hire them to handle all balancing in the game. They believe this despite the fact that the people working on this game have years of experience in balancing while said players have no experience what so ever when it comes to gameplay balance.

But don't go pointing that out to them. They don't like it. They can't prove you wrong, they'll just downvote you into oblivion while touting that they won said argument and continue shouting their own praises to the sky.

JustMyBassCannonMar 11, 20159 votes

{quoted}

Welcome to the League of Legends, where a hand full of champs need number tweaks.

And three need full reworks, another five probably need partial reworks, another ten or so could benefit from having one poorly-designed or antique skill replaced with something else...

But yeah, most of the balance is just number tweaks.

GorszMar 12, 20151 votes

Um, so you're saying just because they stole the game from DotA, I mean "made" the game they are always right, and never fuck up?

League of Cleavers anyone?

Kuroi86Mar 13, 20151 votes

Did I say that?

Everyone makes mistakes.

Yet I constantly hear people claim they could balance the game better than professionals. None can answer the question when I pose it to them. How much experience do they have both in balancing game characters (table tops ftw) and how much experience do they have with video game programming?

slippykittenMar 11, 201512 votes

My main complaint is never over a specific champion (as frustrating as it is to get your main gutted into total inviability). My complaint is that the overall balance of the game is getting worse, not better. The game should be getting more balanced the more balancing riot does. If riots balance work actually makes the game less balanced, then there is cause to complain.

Mikal PikalMar 11, 20153 votes

I don't know. As time goes on more champions are released making it more difficult to balance. Moreover, balance means different things to different people so the game can never be truly balanced, whatever that means.

SammystormMar 11, 20155 votes

I don't know I feel like it is more balanced now. I don't know if you were around for season 2 but that was unbalanced.

lB2kGRlc8yMar 11, 20156 votes

I think the prime issue is how the focus of the game has shifted from strategic to reaction based play, in old league, champions had defined strengths and weaknesses that had to be considered when building a team, veigar being a glass cannon or hiemer being immobile, but now champions are being designed without any glaring weaknesses. Mages are either given retarded amounts of mobility, or are so over-ranged that champions die in a neighboring country. The new trend is that the only counterplay viable for many champions is being cc'd into oblivion, which is not acceptable. The older champions are left to rot against the half second cooldown mobility freaks that can only be killed by targeted stuns (which riots made clear they want to remove) and any old champion that does well is in danger of being nerfed into the ground when they can hold their own, or being completely reworked into half-assed husks of their former selves.

WydiwygMar 11, 201510 votes

Yeah, well...some things never change.

Favors of the Month are always OP, assassins are OP, manaless champs not named Shen are as well, nerfs always destroy champions, champion buffs make them broken, new splash arts are always the worst drawings ever, mobility shouldn't exist, burst shouldn't exist, winrates mean everything, winrates mean nothing, targeted abilities shouldn't exist, the jungle sucks, nobody ever wards, everyone ~~deserves to be~~ basically is challenjour.

You'll get used to it.

ZìggyMar 11, 201510 votes

I don't think soraka is weak at all

DanofDemaciaMar 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

I don't think soraka is weak at all

I used her once and basically carried the early game. at one point had 3 out of 6 kills and saved my empty headed adc countless times.

MaratsuneMar 11, 20154 votes

Soraka Is not ugly! Who said that!???

In all honesty though, I try not to take the forums (boards?) too much to heart; play the game because it's fun, and play characters you think are fun. That's all there is to it. And yes, people complain a lot. Everybody complains a lot. That's all people do. And if they aren't complaining, they're complaining about those who are complaining. It's a painful circle.

ChargeItDownMidMar 11, 20153 votes

[deleted]

junglerboy16Mar 11, 20152 votes

Actually, there kind of is a reason that League can't seem to attain DotA 2 levels of balance (which some people would claim isn't that good, but I'm with you on that point).

DotA 2 as a game was launched from beta with a much more developed perspective of what MOBA is and how to do it right. They also had the entirety of LoL, the original DotA, and every other MOBA before them to perfect their formula off of. Now, Dota 2 doesn't have perfect balance (no game with constant DLC will be) but what makes theres better since its initial launch is that they patch the game much, much more frequently on a smaller scale allowing for faster output of material that course corrects the game more frequently. That kind of design model could help LoL a lot, but its problems run deeper.

LoL as a game is stuck in a state of transition. On one hand we have the old school content like Urgot, Mordekaiser, Urgot, Ryze, etc. and on the other hand we have all of the game's newer content, like Azir, Yasuo, Jinx, Kalista, etc. These champions really do not fit in the same balance universe because the design standards for everything from mobility to counterplay to number tuning has changed drastically since League's inception. Riot frequently updates their older content, but because there is so much of it and they have decided to stick to LoL instead of doing what DotA did and launching a sequel game that is fresh and new from the start, we are left with a game that is losing some of what gained its initial audience and hasn't yet ironed out what it should ultimately become. This is the Reason League can't have DotA 2 balance. If DotA hadn't launched DotA 2 as a whole new game, they would undoubtedly face similar issues with outdated mechanics and game style, not to mention the fact that it would have a ton of Technical issues much like LoL does because League runs on a comparatively old system.

Things Dota 2 does that League should do better (and can do if Riot puts some effort into it):

The whole Melee vs Ranged dilemma (you hardly notice when someone is ranged or melee in DotA 2 except in certain lane setups).
The concept of role (In Dota, roles are much more flexible in general).
The frequency of patches and balance updates.
The maleability of the meta (DotA 2 has a lot of different ways to play the map, like Trilanes, Offlanes, Duo lanes, Roaming supports, Designated gankers, etc.).
All playable characters are unlocked from the get go.

MogwailuxMar 12, 20153 votes

So here is the easy fix....there are over 100 champs in this game. Stop making new champions. And balance the ones you have left. There are more than enough to choose from. If you can't find a champ to play out of the list this game has its time to find a new game. And if you say you are bored of playing the one hundred or so champs in this game, then it is time to do something other than play online games all day long.

PartholonianMar 13, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The problem now is that the difference in champion power, especially in higher mmr brackets, has gotten so big that it is starting to overshadow player skill. There is no reason for that.

No, it hasn't. It's actually just the opposite: the most skilled players have gotten skilled enough that even tiny differences become decisive. High MMR is defined by everyone in it being very skilled (duh), which also means that they're very close to equally skilled.

If you ever see a game where there is a substantial difference in player skill, then you'll see that it doesn't matter what champions anyone is playing. But of course you don't see that in pro games, because genuinely bad or even mediocre players don't get or keep spots on pro teams.

Saint JupiterMar 11, 20151 votes

There are so many champions in this game, If you know how to play the champion then any one of them can be good. Even those who aren't played all that often. . .

Urgot

BerserkInfernoMar 11, 20153 votes

{quoted}

There are so many champions in this game, If you know how to play the champion then any one of them can be good. Even those who aren't played all that often. . .

urgot wrecks face.

KnalxzMar 12, 20151 votes

Ikr

I played him as support and dominated with my Poke and the top with the same results. I just can't bare to look at him.