Riot you really need to focus on toxic gameplay not toxic chat.

Vegas Dad··136 votes·6,461 views

Chat doesn't ruin my fun and make me never want to play your game, I can't mute chat, or simply ignore the little chat box. What I have zero ability to control and what ruins my time in your game far more is toxic gameplay, and it is something you literally REFUSE to address year after year.

I just played a 25 minutes game where my jungler went 0/5/0 did 800 dmg to champs and refused to do anything, this player was not counter jungled in anyway shape or form. They just refused to do anything but farm jungle creeps .

The game prior to this i had a nasus top with 38 cs at 30 minutes who finished 1/10/2 and had ZERO cooldown items..

I can go on and on about this, but it is important this is in gold which is around the top 15% of your players, not the best but FAR FAR from the worst. So it is clear when you see outlyers that perform this badly that they are engaging in purposeful toxic gameplay, for a myriad of reasons i can think of. they don't type anything hostile in chat, which is all your system manages to address. They don't afk, they don't feed yet they destroy the gameplay experience 1000 times more than any idiot calling me bad or telling me to uninstall ever will.

so will you ever make even a midly legit attempt to fix the toxic gameplay the ruins ranked play 365 days a year?

246 Comments

Lucifer27 votes

When I first saw the topic title, I thought this would be about people intentionally feeding or running clarity clairvo and sitting in base. That is NOT what this topic is about, and I'm honestly kind of floored by the community response.

How does this have so many upvotes? Is our community really that self righteous where we believe people need to be punished for not playing well? Are you honestly suggesting Riot ban or otherwise punish people because they aren't performing in ranked games? If this is consistently problematic, they will eventually demote.

I took the liberty of looking into YOUR match history (surely you never have bad games, or you wouldn't have made this topic!)

You are: 19W/31L with Sivir 13W/19L with Teemo 16W/23L with Jinx 63W/83L with Miss Fortune 3W/13L with Morgana

You have some great stats too! For example you have a 55% win rate on Diana, with quite a few games played. That's awesome. But don't go around bullshitting that you don't ever have shit games and that somehow Riot should be punishing people for it. If they ever do, I hope you're first in line. I'm sure you'll be on the forums to complain about it.

Eastrid2 votes

Yeah I refuse to play rank anymore because people get so mad if you don't follow the meta. In MMORPG's I've ran guilds and me and my friends would build off meta and do better together then pug groups following the meta. The main thing is people need to be on the same page when doing rank then it shouldn't matter if they are meta or not. People today get upset to fast over games and it's sad. I do know that there are trolls out there that get off on this kind of stuff but there's not much you can do about.

Then kinda off topic but not really. I remember when Halo 2 came out and people where all into that. We used to trash talk all day in matches then after the match we would 1 vs 1 then become friends after the whole thing. Again now a days to can't say anything without offending people and causing trouble. Times are changing and more people are gaming so you just don't know who you will run into when you start a game.

62227164DEL12 votes

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SymbolicFear3 votes

There is a difference in taking it seriously, and not playing what you want them to kid. People can pick whatever they want as long as they try to win and cooperate with the team. Other than that, I don't care what they play, how they build, or what they say. As long as it doesn't negatively affect the gameplay I don't care. I've seen people play Galio, get trashed talked in champ select, then proceed to carry against the full AD team. So you should just keep your mouth shut...

62227164DEL12 votes

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SymbolicFear2 votes

Actually, you should keep talking about how bad play should be punished.

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-history/NA1/226111660

Lets recount how "unskilled players should be banned" here has been playing in his RANKED GAMES SHALL WEEEE.

2/5 1/8 2/5 5/7 4/9 0/8 4/12

It seems you are about as unskilled as you can get. What is really funny though, is I can tell you get carried every single game. You are basically saying "Ban Me Cause Bad" and its sad. You can't talk about how sick you are of your team mates doing poorly yet you have to be given piggy back rides in every single game. You are the textbook definition of a hypocrite.

Also, it would help if you didn't spit ranked games out like sunflower seeds.

EchoZeero24 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vegas Dad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ev7dGwN,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-06T02:23:28.921+0000)

Chat doesn't ruin my fun and make me never want to play your game, I can't mute chat, or simply ignore the little chat box. What I have zero ability to control and what ruins my time in your game far more is toxic gameplay, and it is something you literally REFUSE to address year after year.

I just played a 25 minutes game where my jungler went 0/5/0 did 800 dmg to champs and refused to do anything, this player was not counter jungled in anyway shape or form. They just refused to do anything but farm jungle creeps .

The game prior to this i had a nasus top with 38 cs at 30 minutes who finished 1/10/2 and had ZERO cooldown items..

I can go on and on about this, but it is important this is in gold which is around the top 15% of your players, not the best but FAR FAR from the worst. So it is clear when you see outlyers that perform this badly that they are engaging in purposeful toxic gameplay, for a myriad of reasons i can think of. they don't type anything hostile in chat, which is all your system manages to address. They don't afk, they don't feed yet they destroy the gameplay experience 1000 times more than any idiot calling me bad or telling me to uninstall ever will.

so will you ever make even a midly legit attempt to fix the toxic gameplay the ruins ranked play 365 days a year?

That jungler has the right to play however he wants. Maybe he felt underpowered and didn't want to feed more. And that Nasus was in no way obligated to buy cooldown items just because you say so. You have no say in what other players build.

Vegas Dad11 votes

{quoted}

That jungler has the right to play however he wants. Maybe he felt underpowered and didn't want to feed more. And that Nasus was in no way obligated to buy cooldown items just because you say so. You have no say in what other players build.

Listen stop being a douche and arguing, i detailed more than just nasus build. These are ranked games and no I am sorry you do have an obligation to play fairly "meta" no you are not allowed to simply say "sorry team I am no supporting you can;t tell me how to play" and roam and do whatever you want, go play like that in normals.

so the jungler? no it is a team game, we are supposed to work as a team not to have some player who never interacts with enemy players the entire match, and the nasus ? his build i dont care that much but he has 38 cs at 30 minutes, okay it is obvious he was boosted and playing with players WAY out of his league, this stuff i am detailing is not " i choose to play differently", and it isnt "i had a bad game" it is i completly have cheated the system to attain this rank, i don;t know how to play the game adequately and am ruining ranked matches every time i que up. Clearly sharing accounts, paying to be boosted etc...

A bad game is having 150 cs at 30 mintues having 38 means i thought it would be funny to let my 5 year old play a game on my account and then report all the people who rage at him in chat.

time is long long past for riot to take a stand and differentiate the expected behavior in ranked play vs normals. People should NOT be jumping into ranked matches who are not there to play competitively. there is a REASON you have different game modes and i am not sure why people feel entittled to ruin ranked play nor why riot allows it to happen it is thousands times more toxic than any stupid chat like gg ez, or uninstall.

Noctius2830 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vegas Dad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ev7dGwN,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-10-06T06:48:07.742+0000)

Listen stop being a douche and arguing, i detailed more than just nasus build. These are ranked games and no I am sorry you do have an obligation to play fairly "meta" no you are not allowed to simply say "sorry team I am no supporting you can;t tell me how to play" and roam and do whatever you want, go play like that in normals.

dude... no... You can't and you shouldn't force anyone to "play in the meta", no matter what game type it is, this is a GAME, games are made to have fun, if you are not having fun then why play? Go to the army if you're that serious about stuff Because people play this to have fun, if they want to have fun AND figure out how good they are, then they have as much right to play ranked as you, be they jungle Lee or tank tristana You may not agree with their choice of build or champion, but it's not your choice to make And the fact rito hasnt given you the "He played out of the meta" report option means they think that too If you want to go pro find a team and play with them, not in solo Q

And above all YOU stop being a douche and arguing, because you have as much a right to your opinion as anyone else, and as they say where i come from "Your liberty ends when mine starts"

JAGMAG6 votes

ok here is the problem there is ranked mode which is for try hards then there is every other single mode in the game which are for those who want to troll and have fun. the meta is there for people who you know want to win and climb in rank and also there's a difference between playing off meta (trynda) vs straight up trolling (ap garren) people just like to pretend that they are playing off meta when they are trolling

also the problem with this stuff is hey you trolled (played way off meta) and made all of us lose when you do dumb stuff and lose your entire team suffers so if you want to troll (play way of meta) stick to normal

Beacon 0F Light18 votes

Playing off meta ≠ trolling. Just because someone is playing something you don't consider meta that doesn't mean they're intentionally doing bad or even that they're worse. It just means you're incredibly close-minded. You DO realize that the way new metas are formed is by people playing different things, right? SOMEONE had to be the first person to play that thing that is now meta.

You say people should stick to the meta but the only way to get the meta to evolve is by playing off-meta. And NO, people DO NOT have an obligation to play as meta as possible in ranked. NOWHERE is that stated as a rule OR EVEN A SUGGESTION. So many people find their groove in playing a champion in a different way. And I LOVE that about League. You can be creative and find success in the weirdest ways. If you are so stiff that you can't see that, you should just go play a different game.

JAGMAG4 votes

actually yes tryndamere is not meta but hes not trolling ap garren is off metta but its also trolling to many trolls try and hide behind the mask of dont tell em how to play i dont have to play meta

Meeks0112 votes

Look up and watch League of Children, it's an online series about your life as a League of Legends player.

killd0zer4 votes

That's the show where the guy picks "off meta" things, and tries to incite people to get pissed right?

Yeah I remember that guy.

Meeks0111 votes

Yeah, like Ashe mid. Then whenever a teammate dies they blame it on him.

all of us lose when you do dumb stuff and lose your entire team suffers

  • Jagmag, 2015

Sounds like a direct quote from League of Children, with less language.

killd0zer2 votes

naw i remember that %%%%%

he would go mid, play like shit then go "lmao just cus im ashe don't be mad:)" then he edits that out and shows the rage

Meeks0112 votes

jumps in 1v5 and dies

MasterYi This fucking ashe, man

MasterYi fukin neckberd peace of shit ashe i ddos u kid and report enjoy account lossssss XDXDXD

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SymbolicFear3 votes

Your lack of intelligence is trolling...

I can play my AP Lucian, or AD Maokai all I want. Just cause I am not some idiot noob playing Freelo champs doesn't mean I am a troll. I play this game cause I enjoy the challenge and diversity of it. If you want everyone to play your way, go make your own team and see how many people stay after listening to you tell them which champ they HAVE to play.

Falkor9995 votes

{quoted}

dude... no... You can't and you shouldn't force anyone to "play in the meta", no matter what game type it is, this is a GAME, games are made to have fun, if you are not having fun then why play? Go to the army if you're that serious about stuff Because people play this to have fun, if they want to have fun AND figure out how good they are, then they have as much right to play ranked as you, be they jungle Lee or tank tristana You may not agree with their choice of build or champion, but it's not your choice to make And the fact rito hasnt given you the "He played out of the meta" report option means they think that too If you want to go pro find a team and play with them, not in solo Q

And above all YOU stop being a douche and arguing, because you have as much a right to your opinion as anyone else, and as they say where i come from "Your liberty ends when mine starts"

first of all there is things in league called normal draft and team builder if u WANT to be little idiot and playing w/e u want then u dont play ranked. and then there is ranked its suppose to be so u can show off ur skill and not your idiotic build or wtf lanes champions so get ur things right no1 need tank katarina or tank tristana THATS WHY there is normal aram team build and rest when i go to play ranked i want to go to divisions of my own skills SO THEN i can have some fun CUZ its not fun playing with trolls and their wtf builds who ruin a game and then after they feed u can just stay in base and wait enemy to finish u off IF THATS FUN FOR YOU and u can have fun like that then i will stand up and clap on the way u think.........

PorkNasty3 votes

You can practice all you want in normals but at a certain point if you want to know if your strat is going to work against a better player you'll have to take it to ranked depending on what your ELO is. If you're good enough anything works in normals, but if you're doing well in normals and you wanna try it in ranked then more power to you. No offense but it's really not anyone's business how another person wants to play their champion if they believe that it works or if they want to experiment. I have no problem with any build or any strat as long as the person doing it is putting in an honest effort to win. It's not trolling if they're trying.

And at the end of the day unless you're making money off of playing league then it really is just for fun. If you're that serious about this game and you're not getting paid or aspiring to get paid (streaming it or being a pro) then I don't understand why you take it so seriously. Don't get me wrong, I get upset when I lose but at this point it's just another drop in the bucket. Over the years I've been playing this game I've won 1000's of games and lost 1000's of games, at this point, losing doesn't bother me nearly as much as the constant trash talking and bm that a lot of players in this community display.

SymbolicFear3 votes

Its the internet, its a video game, and you aren't a 4 year old. If you really feel like trash talking is such a big deal, why do you even partake in ONLINE GAMING???

PorkNasty4 votes

I enjoy the game I just don't enjoy the people. Is that hard to understand? What happens in pro sports when a guy acts like a jack ass or talks trash? He gets boo'd, ppl tune in to watch him lose, they don't cheer him and wish him well. Why do you expect this to be any different? Look at any competition, especially at the top level, what happens at the end of a game? The winner walks up, shakes the other guys hand, says "good effort" and that's that. They don't sit there and talk crap and bad mouth their opponents and when they do the crowd boos and people talk about what a jack ass they are. If I'm losing a game, great... it's bad enough I have to lose but the guy on the other team has to rub my face in it so he can feel better about himself or get his jollies off? IMO, if you wanna act like a jerk then you should be treated as a jerk.

Falkor9991 votes

{quoted}

I enjoy the game I just don't enjoy the people. Is that hard to understand? What happens in pro sports when a guy acts like a jack ass or talks trash? He gets boo'd, ppl tune in to watch him lose, they don't cheer him and wish him well. Why do you expect this to be any different? Look at any competition, especially at the top level, what happens at the end of a game? The winner walks up, shakes the other guys hand, says "good effort" and that's that. They don't sit there and talk crap and bad mouth their opponents and when they do the crowd boos and people talk about what a jack ass they are. If I'm losing a game, great... it's bad enough I have to lose but the guy on the other team has to rub my face in it so he can feel better about himself or get his jollies off? IMO, if you wanna act like a jerk then you should be treated as a jerk.

well ppl who acted jerk to me and flamed me i treated them as lows and made them cry to riot and now i got perma :D

PorkNasty2 votes

That's the problem with getting baited into a flame war with people... I myself have messed up, got baited into a flame war in chat and then ended up chat restricted or 2 week ban cause of the content of what I said. I take responsibility for that, I messed up, I let them get under my skin and on my nerves so bad that I cussed them out but if I can't say anything back and I can't retaliate in some way then the only thing I can do is keep my mouth shut and report. That's the only recourse there is if we're not allowed to get mad at them and give them something back in chat.

Now a days, whenever someone starts in on me I just mute and report at the end of the game. I do my best not to get into it w/ people although even still it is difficult and I trip up sometimes and respond to them when I shouldn't. This game would be so much less frustrating if ppl were more courteous. Try the hipster, unconventional builds all you want but just keep that negativity and bad mouthing out of chat. It's ridiculous.

SymbolicFear2 votes

Listen here kido... The trick to piss off a toxic idiot is to be overly nice when he says something to you. It will make him more frustrated than the 40 year old virgin. I do that every game. I get satisfaction that way, so why should I bother being one of the 12 year olds who report all the time just cause "he hurt my feerings." People need to grow up

Meeks0112 votes

Thank you for this.

I do better and have much more fun when I break the meta. Like I was on a feeding streak playing with friends. Then suddenly, I had a brilliant thought. "I'm following the meta, that's my issue." So I played AP Tryndamere mid rushing Guinsoo's Rageblade next game and broke the streak hard.

I have been unable to do any good as AP Kassidin. 140-180 bases on all his abilities. One game I was 1/10 and the enemy was in our base. I just went "fuck it" and sold everything for full AD items, then I got a double kill. Tried it AD from the start next game in the jungle and carried.

I know, I know. I'm bronze so EVERY bit of hope I have is a fluke and luck is the deciding factor. Nothing I do good is of my own accord.

killd0zer1 votes

loser

Beacon 0F Light4 votes

Truly the pinnacle of human intellect right here ladies and gentlemen.

killd0zer3 votes

*pinacle

Beacon 0F Light2 votes

Thanks for proving my point even further.

*pinnacle

62227164DEL11 votes

[deleted]

Noctius281 votes

{quoted}

If you are Gonna go on off meta adventures, don't do it in my ranked game.

Hey you do you in YOUR ranked games And I'll do me in MY ranked games

If they happen to coincide then... well... I guess it sucks to be you, cuz guess what?

You don't control my PC and can't decide my stuff for me, on the plus side, I can't decide your stuff for you either ;)

Falkor9992 votes

{quoted}

Hey you do you in YOUR ranked games And I'll do me in MY ranked games

If they happen to coincide then... well... I guess it sucks to be you, cuz guess what?

You don't control my PC and can't decide my stuff for me, on the plus side, I can't decide your stuff for you either ;)

i saw your history and i think that was enough to see from the way u talk keep ruining more ppl ranked and drag them into ur own bs divisions where most of you actually belong bronze silver...then go ask fast some of your plat friends to carry you into gold and just keep destroying

Noctius2818 votes

The problem with this is how to regulate it In your example it sounds like the nasus was simply a bad player and not a troll

I have a friend who just started playing like a month ago and he plays Nasus, what you described is pretty much him, and I know for a fact he isn't trolling, he just not a good player yet Just yesterday I went jungle Yi, but my net went down while still in champ select, what happened was the game started without me and when i reconnected I found out for some reason it didnt save my selection of smite, so i went heal/flash with Yi for jungle, I tried my best but still obviously wasn't very usefull till end game and died alot vs the enemy shaco who was always invading I wasn't trolling, stuff just happened that made me have a kinda bad start

Now you sound like the kind of person who would report me for that, independently of how good or usefull I was end game (when i could work without devourer)

Reazale3 votes

This is the thing right here, how to regulate, this shouldnt apply to low lvl players for a start, after that? who knows... its really hard to differentiate some bads from trolls.

Lumen Sage5 votes

Being level 30 is hardly a sign of perfect mastery of a champion or even the game itself.

Any system that targets performance in a game and not the way that player behaved will potentially hurt people trying to learn a new champion or style of play because they are more likely to under-perform until they get the hang of it.

62227164DEL11 votes

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SymbolicFear3 votes

No, there doesn't need to be any deterrent to someone who is bad at the game. If someone lacks the knowledge, give it to them. Stop having that "Bronze Mentality" of everyone who is bad shouldn't play.

Akesgeroth2 votes

But that was in gold. Top 15%. So either the Nasus was a troll or the ranked system is worthless. I think it might be both.

Noctius283 votes

{quoted}

But that was in gold. Top 15%. So either the Nasus was a troll or the ranked system is worthless. I think it might be both.

You'd be suprised... I don't like playing ranked but most of my friends do I have one that is incapable of going tank, like literally physically incapable, when he has to go tank, let's say he gets amumu in aram when the rest of us are squishies, he says he is going full tank, then he builds item 3022 item 3027 item 3116 as first items, when we were facing an almost fully ad team, and he was gold last season and silver this season Ranks have nothing to do with a skill of a person, they have to do with who they have the luck (or misfortune) to be put with

DirtyDishSoap16 votes

[{quoted}](name=Vegas Dad,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ev7dGwN,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-06T02:23:28.921+0000)

Chat doesn't ruin my fun and make me never want to play your game, I can't mute chat, or simply ignore the little chat box. What I have zero ability to control and what ruins my time in your game far more is toxic gameplay, and it is something you literally REFUSE to address year after year.

I just played a 25 minutes game where my jungler went 0/5/0 did 800 dmg to champs and refused to do anything, this player was not counter jungled in anyway shape or form. They just refused to do anything but farm jungle creeps .

The game prior to this i had a nasus top with 38 cs at 30 minutes who finished 1/10/2 and had ZERO cooldown items..

I can go on and on about this, but it is important this is in gold which is around the top 15% of your players, not the best but FAR FAR from the worst. So it is clear when you see outlyers that perform this badly that they are engaging in purposeful toxic gameplay, for a myriad of reasons i can think of. they don't type anything hostile in chat, which is all your system manages to address. They don't afk, they don't feed yet they destroy the gameplay experience 1000 times more than any idiot calling me bad or telling me to uninstall ever will.

so will you ever make even a midly legit attempt to fix the toxic gameplay the ruins ranked play 365 days a year?

There's so much wrong with your post, it's pretty funny. I clicked on the link thinking "oh, someone might actually have a legitimate complaint about the system and share similar thoughts on the subject." Nope, just a classic case of butt hurt.

Your post lacks details on why you think these players trolled you. Nasus for example. We don't know his match up, we don't know if he was getting camped hard, we don't know if he had some major lag issues, we don't know if the jungler out right refused to help him, we just don't know. So you crying about how bad he is doing isn't a legitimate reason to think he's a troll, unless you provide some other form of proof. If he was really that bad of a player report him for being unskilled and it'll drop his MMR and he'll be placed with players of similar caliber. As for Lee...He's not obligated to gank lanes, or more importantly to WIN YOUR LANE. The less you rely on the jungler the better, the less you heckle the jungler too will be better. A general rule I have kept is if a lane is losing by 2 or 3 more deaths, then me going there would just be me feeding the fire unless I'm also heavily fed. That and if someone in lane is giving me attitude on how I'm jungling, I usually ignore them and help others that need it. Raging at your jungler is probably the dumbest thing you could do. It's like pissing off your friend who's giving you a ride to work. With that being said, if Lee had five deaths but didn't get counter jungled, then it seems like he actually did attempt to gank, probably early and it didn't work out, so if he's just farming creeps, he's trying to play catch up and stay relevant in the game. Your whole post on how these players are trolls lacks any sort of details as to why other than that they played poorly. My suggestion is to kick your ego and the crappy attitude you have and you'll more than likely do better. Hate players such as you that blame everyone else and think they deserve a better tier.

I do agree with the headline of the post though. Trolls have waaaaaaay too much power in the game and can single handily effect the match five minutes in, whether they feed lanes intent, afk, or whatever. It's even more asinine that players who actually do rage and fight back against these trolls are actually more likely to get banned, which is utterly stupid. Chat shouldn't even be a problem, there's a mute button in the game, use it, if they're being toxic and ruining the game for you, chances are they won't contribute anything more in chat, so just mute them and communicate with pings, it's pretty simple. Personally, being banned because of whatever is said in chat is probably the dumbest thing you could get banned for when there's literally a way to block it. And please, don't feed me the line "But it's a game! It's meant to be fun!" So is football, soccer, golf and every other sport out there, they're all considered games and they're all, like league, competitive. I play the game to have fun and to also be competitive. You can take a guess which options I use to play competitively and which I use to be casual. Imagine your favorite football team is the Patriots, and Tom Brady is being a dick because his offensive line said his wife looked better with red hair, so he just tosses the game and refuses to throw the ball. Wouldn't you be pretty pissed off at Brady? I don't even know how or why this is a major issue in league. The games been around for years, and I would think some level of moderation would have come into play by now. Do I have any solutions? Sadly, no. It's just something I would like to see fixed by the time season six rolls around.

NihIathak6 votes

tries to start a slow clap

62227164DEL11 votes

[deleted]

SymbolicFear2 votes

Jungler's are glorified supports unless they choose to be kid. You have a long way to go before you learn the ways of "teamwork"

yukumari10 votes

The issue with this is that it's much easier to identify toxic chat. It's rather straightforward to identify. In addition, whole chat logs can be retrieved so it's less prone to have things misread or taken out of context.

With "toxic play" however, It's a much more blurred line. Having your Nasus top with only 38 CS at 30 minutes while having such a poor score/build might not be toxic, but it might just be honest to god poor play. Poor play isn't something that's bannable, but it is something that the ELO system will handle naturally (By dropping their rank).

There are some clear cut actions such as AFKing via DC but that's already heavily punished. The other option of AFKing by remaining connected is much harder to regulate because there's nothing saying that they've done anything explicitly wrong.

This is why the player reporting system is so necessary: It's very difficult to separate poor play and actual toxic behavior. To add to this, any automatic system that would deal with this would be very inaccurate and would only cause more problems than it would help.

DrCyanide5 votes

While you make very good points, Riot started the automatic intentional feeder detection last patch. They intend to make it more and more punishing as they verify its accuracy.

Unlucky Number79 votes

they already implemented a intentional feeder buster on live. it's toned down a bit at the moment but the'll continue to improve it.

PiVoRx6 votes

You can still pretend like you play randomly clicking while watching movies on 2nd monitor and nothing can stop you.

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