Anivia is getting nerfed in PBE!!! WHAT THE HELL!!!

Awhegark··116 votes·9,719 views

This doesn't even make any sense. She is one of the hardest champions in the entire game, and she is not particularly strong this Pre season. Also why the hell are you even nerfing her this way :

Anivia Flash Frost (Q) chill duration lowered to 2 seconds from 3 seconds. Glacial Storm (R) chill duration lowered to 1 seconds from 2 seconds.

This will only make it harder to fight anyone with mobility, since anivia is not very fast herself, and E is a slow traveling projectile.

But whatever, did you see those sweet Zed buffs, that joke of a Kha'Zix buff, and that HP regen for the bunny lady.

208 Comments

Mcprowlington45 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Anivia

I know people that main her are offended and all, but 60% win rate for the most experienced players and 50% win rate for first timers. That's grounds for a nerf. Always will be.

AniviaUser4 votes

and most of users are experienced. why not people use anivia?

because she is a crap and no one wants to use her!

Baron of Bread24 votes

She is most definitely not crap. Her wave clear is nearly unmatched post 6 and her combo is fast and hits ridiculously hard.

To top it off, she has an above 50% winrate for players of all experience levels. She needs a bit of a power reduction overall and reducing the duration on her chill effects will just give her a slightly higher skill floor.

NEOtheONE2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Baron of Bread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ZhY5vxc,comment-id=000f00000001,timestamp=2015-11-25T02:58:02.509+0000)

She is most definitely not crap. Her wave clear is nearly unmatched post 6 and her combo is fast and hits ridiculously hard.

To top it off, she has an above 50% winrate for players of all experience levels. She needs a bit of a power reduction overall and reducing the duration on her chill effects will just give her a slightly higher skill floor.

Except Anivia is very much a situational pick until like platinum league and above. She needs a team that works well in teamfights and will stick together for those teamfights, which in lower leagues doesn't happen. Additionally she has to survive until post 6. I've gotten to the point where I can play Anivia well even against a superior opposing team, but carrying your team with her requires them to have some level of coordination in teamfights and to remember you have a passive.

If they wanted to lower the chill duration from 3 to 2.5, I would be upset but could still tolerate that, but pre-6 especially you have to chase the enemy mid to follow up on a successful Q which decreasing that window 1 whole second is a pretty brutal nerf. The nerf on the Ult chill duration is pretty negligible as popping Ult while E is in the air is the preferred combo over R+E anyway.

Baron of Bread8 votes

She actually works well with a split push comp as well because of how long she can hold a tower against superior numbers. Just lay down your ult and watch the wave disappear.

I will agree that the change to the Q chill duration will probably do something, but I think it won't hit too hard. If I had to go so hard on getting the E off that one second makes a big difference then I usually wouldn't go for it anyway, it would put me too far down the lane.

Darkwind1 votes

That's not really what reducing the duration of her chill effects will do.

What it WILL do is this:

  1. You will have to commit to Qs much earlier. Before, if you fired a long range Q, you would wait a moment to see if it would land before moving up to E; now you'll have to move up right away.

  2. Multi-E spell rotations just got harder. Before one could E>R W Q>E, with the last E coming out quite late and just barely getting the chill effect. This was your all-in combo, and this will be significantly harder to do (you'll need to lock them up for a full second more.... somehow... or else have 20% more CDR than before).

  3. Champions with moderate range dashes or extremely high speed can now avoid double damage E somewhat more reliably. Sometimes, a chilled enemy can dash away/run away as you throw your E, and because the projectile is slow, by the time it arrives they won't be chilled anymore. This is more likely to happen now than before, with a very short duration chill.

Dunno about you, but that doesn't sound like the way to nerf a champion to me.

Baron of Bread1 votes

To summarize what you just said, Anivia will be more difficult now (also people have a better chance of running from the double E damage).

I think making it more difficult to maximize Anivia's damage output is fine as far as nerfs go.

Darkwind2 votes

I'm mostly fine with #1. That's K; long range Qs SHOULD be risky to follow up on; making them more so is reasonable.

The issue with #2 is not that it's more difficult- it's that it's flat impossible against an opponent playing competently (unless you have much more CDR than normal). Even if I E prior to using my R (starting its CD asap), have you in the middle or closer of my R (making you walk as far to get out of it as possible), use my wall to not only block your escape but also nudge you farther into my ult (ccing you briefly and gaining a small distance), fire my Q perfectly such that you cannot dodge it, and use my E immediately as it comes off CD... you should still not receive chilled damage if you simply walked away from me. Keep in mind that for the scenario I just listed, the enemy player had to have done a TON of things wrong. They have to be within 650 range, have no gapcloser or mobility available to them, have no jungler/assistance nearby, AND have no ability to all-in me. This is post- level 8 Anivia, too- you really can't do this in a meaningful way until then, because you simply don't have the points in your skills for this combo to work. If an enemy mage or assassin is THAT close to you without being able to fight you, at that point in the game... they deserve to die, assuming you play optimally. I feel it's very likely that this change will make that not possible to do unless the enemy just meanders around in your ult for a few seconds so your E can come back up.

Point #3 is silly. It's not a case of "oh i outplayed your E damage," it's a case of "wtf my targeted skill isn't doing the damage it should be doing." As the recipient of the E, you should ALREADY have been outplayed (in terms of your ability to avoid the bonus damage) if I apply chill to you and follow up with an immediate E. After all, I have a pretty moderate range, and most likely your champ has more mobility than I do. The only champs that DON'T have either a dash, significant speed boost, or higher base move speed than Anivia are Ashe, Jinx, Kog'maw, Soraka, and Zyra. Four are longer ranged than you, and the fifth doesn't want to damage you anyway. You didn't HAVE to get that close to me; you chose to.

Now, if they changed things around somewhat- say, it calculates whether it deals double damage or not on cast, rather than on impact, but also decreased chill duration a small additional amount (~.25 seconds, maybe as much as .5), I wouldn't have any problems with that. It's still a net nerf- ~1.25-1.5 seconds less slow time as well as ~.5 seconds less chill vulnerability time, but it's not quite as ridiculous.

I'd also be alright with several other changes. Maybe you make the attack speed debuff on the R only 15%; maybe you up the mana cost on the wall a little (it was decreased some time ago); maybe you make Fear, Taunt, and Charm interrupt her R (they actually don't atm). Point is, there are lots of places that you could make nerfs that I think make more sense. This nerf heavily hits some of Anivia's more difficult/skillful to pull off combos in particular, which really isn't where she should be nerfed imo.

Noam Braumsky3 votes

{quoted}

http://champion.gg/champion/Anivia

I know people that main her are offended and all, but 60% win rate for the most experienced players and 50% win rate for first timers. That's grounds for a nerf. Always will be.

But the way they're nerfing her isn't really meaningful. I'd nerf her Q base damage or her E cooldown. From when I used to play a decent amount of birb I was always surprised by her early game burst, but nerfing the time she can get double damage on her E for both of her abilities is a bit extreme. She'll need to be much closer to her targets, and for a kiting dps mage like her, that's going to be really rough.

Divewing2 votes

Well honestly thats probably the idea behind idea, risk for reward etc etc blah blah blah

Krys Star40 votes

Anivia's Q and R are problematic for Yasuo, didn't you know? We can't have anybody slowing down the glorious samurai from achieving 100% crit chance with just a item 3087 + item 1018 . No, no, no. Yasuo needs to be the one that dominates and owns mid! [slayer-jinx-wink]

Battalion6 votes

Azir Last Emperor of Shurima, Ruler of the Desert, Owner of the Middle lane, and most importantly: The wrecker of Yasuo's shit.

Melledoneus13 votes

Malzahar This guy needs no introduction.

Calabok8 votes

{quoted}

Malzahar This guy needs no introduction.

uh . purple dude?

Phuc Dat Bich1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Frozen Beauty,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1ZhY5vxc,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2015-11-25T00:42:22.066+0000)

Anivia's Q and R are problematic for Yasuo, didn't you know? We can't have anybody slowing down the glorious samurai from achieving 100% crit chance with just a item 3087 + item 1018 . No, no, no. Yasuo needs to be the one that dominates and owns mid! [slayer-jinx-wink]

at least yasuo can insta die in team fights

Anivia can just put R down and never die

SO GTFO

Plus you all seem to forget that tenacity got nerfed

and you all seem to forget that ROA got buffed and the mastery that burn enemies for % of your AP and AD is broken for DOT champions

My god your bronze mind make me sick

Krys Star6 votes

A bad Yasuo can insta-die in team fights, as you put it. A good one can't. Anivia cannot put R down and never die, because she has mana unlike Yasuo, and a leash distance, and she can die. I don't know where you get this 'never die' idea from. Your argument is really weak and biased, for a diamond player. You also didn't do your research either. I've been diamond for the past 4 years just like you, although I dropped to plat in the last 2 weeks by mishap.

Regardless, being diamond or bronze is a fail argument. Your place in Ranked doesn't determine anything other than where you are in Ranked based on its poor mmr and lp system. You're a silly child.

The Poetic Zed27 votes

this doesn't make sense to me. i always thought anivia was pretty balanced, if anything a bit underpowered, never over.

DeathToEcchi4 votes

Lowering the chill duration makes it so you have a smaller window to get double damage from the icicle. Basically, they're implying it was to easy to get her full combo off without using her wall or landing the stun.

M0b1us26 votes

The only reason Anivia is experiencing an increase in win rate is the fact that she can easily wave clear once she gets items. It is very strong against ADCs since she can throw her ult down and move a fair distance away. This slows games down and helps stop snowballing.

That is why Anivia is doing well right now. But what you don't realize is that she has been doing this ever since S1! That is what Anivia is! She is a mage that focuses on control. Anivia hasn't receive a direct buff since patch 4.1. Those buffs even then were only mana cost reduction.

Anivia is a direct answer to the current meta and how snowbally it is. That is why her win rate is going up and not because she is overly strong. A nerf like this will do nothing to her win rate in this meta, but if these nerfs go through, as soon as the preseason smooths out Riot will not change them back. The exact same thing happened with Sejuani and cinderhulk.

Baron of Bread9 votes

This is a pretty good description for why Anivia should be doing well right now. She gives her team a chance to make up for the snowballing and gives her opponents more opportunities to throw.

AbodyHUN6661 votes

What's interesting though is that she has bigger winrate in the early game. Looks like the E double damage is a bit problematic early on then.

Baron of Bread5 votes

I am not really sure why she has such a good early game winrate. If she always had it then the E double damage could be the cause, but I don't know as this is the first time I have looked at her winrate stats.

Actually, that early winrate might be because of her waveclear. She can basically hold turrets permanently until Baron is taken; she can't do much against a wave of Baron buffed minions. So once teams start taking Baron she will start losing more since if her team was ahead they will close out fast but if the enemy is ahead that is when they will finally be able to take her turrets. That's just speculation though and if it is true then she probably needs more nerfs than what she is getting (which would make me sad, I love my bird champs).

Captain Aishi3 votes

pretty much everyone in high elo keeps saying that baron buff is the thing that screws over mages like ziggs and anivia the most of anything in the game, so there might be some truth to it

Doctor Dyment23 votes

Because Anivia seems to be one of the only mages who can actively deny the new ADC's and mid laners from completely stomping in lane. So the most logical step is not to nerf those causing the trouble, but rather to nerf those who can stand against them.

7ha7guy77711 votes

It's one of those "separate the good from the bad" nerfs Or Riot just hates birds

BroLane1 votes

{quoted}

It's one of those "separate the good from the bad" nerfs Or Riot just hates birds

Quinn

Captain Aishi2 votes

quinn has nothing to do with birds anymore :P

The Bearded Bard9 votes

One of the hardest champs in the game? That's a joke.

LadyRenly29 votes

no mobility, has a situational stun skillshot, can't cs to save her life pre 6. Pretty glaring flaws in the meta

The Bearded Bard4 votes

Doesn't make her difficult. Step 1: ult. Step 2: press e.

Baron of Bread22 votes

Step 3: Die a horrible death and pray your team saves you

Punkkee3 votes

Step 4: go on fourms Step 5: complain that anivia got a nerf

Baron of Bread9 votes

I think that she could have a nerf and be fine, especially the one they plan. However, she is by no means an easy champion. If you tried the combo that Bearded Bard said then you would probably die since your E does not have enough range to be safe while using it unless you already stunned with Q (which is one of the harder skill shots in the game) or the enemy has no dashes and you have your wall ready.

Is Anivia easy? No. Is a nerf justified? Yeah, probably.

IntakiNine2 votes

So she's Xerath with bigger AoE and better burst?

Alëk9 votes

LOL no. Anivia is hard core zone control with massive burst if you get into range. Xerath is poke. Poke Poke Poke Poke Poke. And his poke fucking HURTS.

Earl Eulrich9 votes

well...she is strong since quite forever. that being said - she still offers a lot of counterplay for experienced players, so i´m not really a fan either.

FreezerFlare8 votes

These changes are going to cause anivia to become a much more passive champion. Right now she can toss out a Q to go for a stun and hopefully make it to them before the stun wears off. (Her E is short ranged) but with these changes if she makes it to her target when the stun wears off the target will no longer be chilled by the time the E makes contact with them.

Because of this she won't be able to play aggressively with her Q and use it only if the champion will be in her E range when they are stunned. She can still waveclear like a boss and punish enemies if they dive her with Double Q hit into E. But she lost any way of poking with Q and still getting her E off

Woodakoodashooda8 votes

Anivia is incredibly powerful. Despite all the additions and changes to the game, I see her played relatively often and very successfully.

As for nerfs and buffs, I don't know Riot's reasoning behind balancing. All their explanations in the patch notes are just flavor text that tell me nothing except the personal feelings they have for their beloved creations.

AniviaUser6 votes

that is because people who use Anivia are mostly highly experienced users.

why dont use while she is OP? becauae she is not!

she has floor pick rate of 3%.

even malzahar never nerfed when he had 58% of win rate

Emperor Cynric5 votes

Lol "one of the hardest champions to play" Hit r than E massive damage. Broke a sweat even writing that.

AniviaUser18 votes

you never have used Anivia.

e range is damn short for non mobile mage who has slowest mobility in whole champions!

and she have to evade all cc to give enemy some demage which makes no sense.

playing anivia is easy. but using well, is impossibly hard

Divewing3 votes

User is right you know. It's E then R for massive damage.

ill see myself out

Gigahappytown2 votes

>anivia >hard >her main damage output is pointclick nuke

her q is slow but it has a massive hitbox and you will almost always be slowed by her r and blocked by her w so it never misses

delusional mage mains

AniviaUser13 votes

oh then why her pick rate is only 3%?

bullshit

Dirty Roleplayer1 votes

{quoted}

oh then why her pick rate is only 3%?

bullshit

Because she is boring to play. Effective yet boring.

Captain Aishi6 votes

she's one of the most fun champs in the game to play for those who like to use their brain instead of just reflexes though

Troll for Trump1 votes

Anivia has been annoying in the years. Annoying, but never meta, kinda like Yorick and Poopy. A 3 second stun is a little much. You saw what they did to fid fear.. I guess 2 seconds, despite it being a really hard to land skillshot.

Auryiel13 votes

3 second stun...

Did you really...

What the...

She has a 1 second stun...

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