Where are AP Assassin Items?

Cabruh··5 votes·1,898 views

I know already the AP assassin class is very small. Akali Ekko Fizz Kassadin Katarina Evelynn Diana Nidalee

All these champs utilize basic AP mage items, but where are the Assassin items? All the AD assassins have really strong items for their class, and they dont rely on adc items most of the time.

I can agree Rabadons and voidstaff are the most important portions of an ap kit for max damage, but they dont offer much for ap assassins in utility. Like ad assassins, they need penetration, or, as of now, lethality. Shouldn't riot be fair to Ap assassins as well and give them this stat too? It makes the lives of this class much easier to do what they were meant to do: assassinate. Thats what riot wants to do with the assassin update anyway.

The movement speed is also something ad assassins get. Sure, there's ludens for ap, but its been used as a basic mage item and assassin-ish item that I only sometimes build on them for a little extra ms. I think there should be another item that gives magic pen as well as more utility that shows some love for this little group of guys.

IMO, my biggest candidate would be item 3100. All of these assassins use autos efficiently, and it offers potential burst more valuable to this class than most mages. Think about it: the only champs who are mages that really use this as a core item are TwistedFate and Viktor.

Proposed idea for Lich bane: I think this item can be reworked to gain ms when using a basic attack after casting an ability. "After casting an ability, the next basic attack will gain bonus damage based on ap and ad as well as giving a movement speed buff. For the next three seconds, the target has their magic resist reduced based on level" The ap on this item would probably be reduced to 60, giving bonus ms and magic pen along with the strong passive instead cdr and mana. IK, without mana the item 3057 couldnt be in the build, so the proper item to replace it would be item 3145. I mean, the bonus damage based on ad never helped ap champs anyway. Revolver is much better for their build path. This would make for a much better item dedicated to this class that could be balanced and more useful to a whole class of champs as opposed to the few that lich bane already serves well.

11 Comments

Troy2426213 votes

Evelynn likes item 3100 and AP burst items :c

Cabruh1 votes

Sorry. Ill be sure to include her in my post too.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo2 votes

dont ap assassin do burst damage with ap and magic pen? and there is ap and magic pen ?

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ufcs1tl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-19T02:58:06.026+0000)

dont ap assassin do burst damage with ap and magic pen? and there is ap and magic pen ?

OP was mainly talking about the Utility that an Assassin would enjoy. Though I wouldn't say that AP Assassins would need the same kind of Utility that the current AD counterparts offer. Overall, a Burst mage and an AP Assassin will probably have similar damage scaling, thus benefit from items the same, so the two classes would be better differentiated by their kits.

One of the key things I've noticed with the AP Assassins is that they generally don't support the ranged Assassins as much as they use to. Le'blanc is still there, but Ahri got refocused, and that all happened when DFG got removed. But for Melee AP, I'm surprised that no one mentioned Protobelt. Given that the missiles become more effective at close range, and offers a decent gap closer.

As per OP suggestion, I don't think putting a MR version of Lethality, only applied when the spell blade is active, would be a very healthy approach. (I'm not even sure why the recipe needed to change.)

Not sure if I would change Lich bane to serve as an Assassin item. But if I did, I would cut it's current ratio's by about a third. But increase the damage up to double, based on missing Health. (you know, create an actual Execute effect.)

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

but here is the thing about "AP ASSASSINS" they are gonna get items like item 3001 item 3157 item 3135 item 3100 item 3089 item 3020

which gives them stupid amount of damage , magic pen and survive-ability

at least typically with an "ad assassin" they have to go full damage with no def (utility or survive-ability )

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Ufcs1tl,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-10-19T03:44:57.535+0000)

but here is the thing about "AP ASSASSINS" they are gonna get items like item 3001 item 3157 item 3135 item 3100 item 3089 item 3020

which gives them stupid amount of damage , magic pen and survive-ability

at least typically with an "ad assassin" they have to go full damage with no def (utility or survive-ability )

Not sure that's the case anymore. All of the Assassin items are getting that out of combat MS. And since it's an unnamed passive, it will stack with other items. (meaning that combinding Ghost blade, dusk blade, and edge of night, bring it up to 60) Edge of night by the way is offering a powerful defensive mechanic by giving you a spellshield. And the stuff duskblade offers is hilarious.

AD Assassins will not be without Utility, and it will be the kind of utility they want most.

Dark Nephthys1 votes

If you add item 3145 then it would probably need an active (to match with all the other Hextech items) and it will cause some annoyance with building it if the assassin also likes to build something like item 3152 or item 3146 since it would share the same CD between them. Also losing out on the extra damage from item 3057 might not make the item worth it for assassins.

Also you forgot a few AP assassins to add on the list: Diana Evelynn though some people might not consider Ahri Nidalee as assassins but I still think they are as well.

Cabruh1 votes

Sorry. You are right. Diana, nid, and evelynn deserve to be on there. But like I said, these are ap assassins that use autos, and they would really benefit from this specific item. Also, the revolver actually does a lot more damage for ap assassins than sheen does than you think. Playing a lot of ap ekko mid, Ive had a lot of success with a revolver first over a sheen.

oSEXYPLATYPUSo1 votes

they consider diana a diver not an assassin

Hinagiku331 votes

item 3089 : AP amplifier for pure burst item 3020 item 3135 : MR Penetration item 3285 item 3100 : Movement Speed + tons of extra burst item 3157 item 3116 item 3152 item 3165 : Extra AP and utility

Don't get me wrong, AP Assassin itemization is bland as hell. But it's not like there is some big gap that needs to be filled. Maybe some extra items to compete but that's about it.

Heck, Kat and Akali can even get some of the AD items if they want - Kat's AD scalings are stupidly high on her ult, and Akali...well her passive looks like it got gutted but she still gets a little healing that scales with AD and her E scales with AD. Really, if you weave in a couple auto-attacks it might not be a waste to get stuff like item 3147 on them.

Fizz is weird and has AD Bruiser builds that pop up occasionally. Just get the 1 AD item you want on him and it'll probably work.

Kassadin...it's Kass, just build tons of AP and Mana.

Ekko might continue to be a Tank, but if he isn't then just stacking AP will probably make him bonkers after all the AP scaling buffs he's received.

Oh, and the reason you will not see a "Lethality" for MR is because every champion gets Armor/Level but ranged champions don't get MR/Level, so it's already really easy to do near-true damage to anything that you're actually supposed to be assassinating.

Talinis1 votes

Current AD assassin items barely do more than increase the raw damage output of their wielders. While items still need to pack a punch so assassins can close out their kills, we're updating them to include more tricks to help assassins set-up, stalk, and ambush—not just burst.

If you read this, what the actual hell, because AP itemization does EVEN LESS than AD items in terms of providing more than just raw burst. There is no way in heck Riot does not favor AD itemization. AP itemization for assassins blows massive. The new Fizz, absolute joke of an update, will never work as AP and will need to be completely scrapped. With AD itemization, sure, it could work. I actually want the updates to go through on Fizz just so Riot can realize what a joke they are when it comes to properly balancing him as he WILL be AD tank build now and sub 30% win rate as AP. They need to give AP melee assassins more ways to survive in melee like they give AD assassins or they will continue to build AD tank.

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