Boards›Gameplay

Can we discuss removing the self-slow on Skarner's E - Fracture?

Predatorator·Feb 1, 2019·5 votes·2,285 views

Hello! Right now Skarner's E self-slows as it passes through more targets. I wanted to discuss the removal of this mechanic, because right now between all the mobility, the cc make it a struggle for skarner to close on enemy champions. His gapclosing is tied to both land E and use his W, which works as a shield that gives a ramping speed bonus over the duration. Pop the shield and he loses also the ramping speed bonus.
Now that also the meta has shifed more to favor ganking playstyles, i think a quick changed to aid the guy would be to remove the self slow from Es projectile. This can aid him in ganking while still offering the counterplay to pop the shield. it can also help him more while playing top, because he can setup ganks far more reliably since Es projectile won't slow down as it passes through minions, and i don't think that's bad since he cannot harness to his passive as he could by playing jungle. Giving his shield a small base value could be helping him to tank more. Overall i think it'd be an easy fix on the way to some major work.

17 Comments

xDogMeatxFeb 1, 20193 votes

i personally think he needs a buff and/or rework to be more playable or at least enjoyable.

Warlord RhinarkFeb 18, 20192 votes

Okay.

I knew I said the other thing was epic too.

But this.

This is epic.

PredatoratorFeb 18, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1BR74Epc,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-02-18T13:03:35.464+0000)

Okay.

I knew I said the other thing was epic too.

But this.

This is epic.

Thank you so much, let's make skarner epic again =p

PredatoratorFeb 2, 20191 votes

I know, but it'll be a long wait before he gets his vgu. This one is just an easy fix in the meantime

ShahamutFeb 17, 20191 votes

This would be wonderful, although, what he NEEDS is simply this:

A new Passive. I would be ok with the old Crystal Venom, but something different would be ok in my book.
Crystal Slash revert: Give back its BASE DAMAGE and attack/move speed stacking buff. It was what made a ramp up speed on W ok... now he is just too slow.

AAAAAAND thats it for NEEDS.

Would like:

Your suggestion of removing the self slow projectile. I would like to see maybe a major increase in its base damage and AP scaling, and maybe have it deal less damage to subsequent targets, maybe even as low as 50%, but that slowing down thing should go for sure.
Mana sustain: Have stunning targets marked by E restore mana instead of dealing bonus damage. The game already has too much burst in it. Skarner doesn't want/need burst damage. Some mana sustain would be ok by me.
For his passive, I would really like a periodic sting attack that poisons targets in some way, like an attack speed slow, or a deals less damage debuff with some minor %HP magic damage

PredatoratorFeb 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

This would be wonderful, although, what he NEEDS is simply this:

A new Passive. I would be ok with the old Crystal Venom, but something different would be ok in my book.

Crystal Slash revert: Give back its BASE DAMAGE and attack/move speed stacking buff. It was what made a ramp up speed on W ok... now he is just too slow.

AAAAAAND thats it for NEEDS.

Would like:

Your suggestion of removing the self slow projectile. I would like to see maybe a major increase in its base damage and AP scaling, and maybe have it deal less damage to subsequent targets, maybe even as low as 50%, but that slowing down thing should go for sure.

Mana sustain: Have stunning targets marked by E restore mana instead of dealing bonus damage. The game already has too much burst in it. Skarner doesn't want/need burst damage. Some mana sustain would be ok by me.

For his passive, I would really like a periodic sting attack that poisons targets in some way, like an attack speed slow, or a deals less damage debuff with some minor %HP magic damage

new passive is definitely something he needs, or at least a great improvement of the current one. thing is a new passive may require balancing skarner's kit as a whole, from number tweaks, to even adding/removing mechanics. Not to mention all the arts/sounds/animation. This is a lot of work, and may require alot of time, opposite to the simple and short term fixes i'm looking at. A revert to pre juggernaut update (crystal venom skarner is best skarner) and some modernization from that would be lovely too. But you know how riot handles reverts aaaaaand it's still about skarner.
some base damage would be nice, not too much because of the scaling, but still would make tankier builds still relevant, given that skarner doesn't get as tanky as most tanks anyways. I'd be happy too if they added back the pre jugg ramping mechanic, even tho it may overlap with the spire buff, so followup will be needed. Overall i feel they should just rework his Q: right now it's only AoE hybrid dps, and sheen proc. Reworking it would mean make it a more interesting and cohesive ability, freeing skarner from buying only sheen items. there are lots of good items for skarner out there, but it feels bad to buy most of them because of his Q.
idk what the point of tweaking the damage could be. poke may be better, but usually the first target you hit are either minions or tankier champs, so it nullifies.

4)Hitting marked enemies with E already gives mana back, what you are looking for is a more consistent mana gain. this could also mean skarner could lane at least better. but it may overlap with spires. the damage is ok, is not really that bursty as jax/master yi/camille. i was thinking about buffing the cd reset on E for hitting marked enemy champions. This way skarner gets a bigger reward for doing something he's supposed to.

5)Ironically enough, i posted something that looks exactly like 80% of what you're looking for. I think that's a good direction for a skarner VGU, since it actually captures it's cunning and ferocity, and it's more coherent to his scorpion nature. Here, have a look and tell me what you think: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/kQjnA3ie-skarner-vgu-concept-how-about-giving-him-a-fiora-like-passive

ShahamutFeb 18, 20192 votes

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-plus/A1I5czRs-my-thoughts-on-skarners-spires-long-post?comment=0014

This post is a long and detailed post about why the spires are ACTUALLY bad game design and not ok.

The entirety of my premise for suggested changes is the removal of the spires.

And yes, pre-juggernaut Skarner was THE best Skarner. :) <3

PredatoratorFeb 18, 20192 votes

{quoted}

https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-plus/A1I5czRs-my-thoughts-on-skarners-spires-long-post?comment=0014

This post is a long and detailed post about why the spires are ACTUALLY bad game design and not ok.

The entirety of my premise for suggested changes is the removal of the spires.

And yes, pre-juggernaut Skarner was THE best Skarner. :) <3

i red that post, and i can say i totally agree with what's in it, nothing about skarner goes unnoticed by me =p i'm totally with you that his passive is badly made, and long term solution (VGU/GU) should be about removing it. i'd like to make a megapost about skarner in the future, where i'll throw in everything i think is problematic of skarner, the pros of acting on this problems, dividing between short term, and long term solutions, and hopefully we can have a richer discussion a t that point. But if i were to ask you right now, keeping in mind all your thoughts on skarner, what passive would you make for him?

ShahamutFeb 18, 20192 votes

<3<3<3<3

I personally would like to see more use of his tail and a new version of the "Crystal Venom" is where I took it:

Basically, my ideal kit for Skarner looks like this:

Revert Q to pre-juggernaut state. It is exactly what works with the ramp up movement speed and reinforces his DPS combat pattern.

E: Change the stun proc effect to mana restortation instead of bonus damage. This missing damage will be back in his Q revert, as it had base damage before the juggernaut rework.

New Passive: Crystal Venom- Every 6/5/4 (at levels 1/6/11) auto attack, Skarner strikes with his tail, dealing X% (A small and no ratio amount, so like, 2-5% maybe) of the targets max health as magic damage over 3 seconds. While poisoned, targets deal Y% less damage. (something moderate, since % values scale anyway, but with no other scaling, so like 10% reduced damage.) Would also be ok if it was reduced auto attack speed, but not a movespeed slow. He has a slow on his fracture ability and speed buffs on W and Q. But the poison should be something debilitating.

R: Only change to his R is that it would apply Crystal Venom to the victim on both initial and secondary damage procs.

This, in my opinion, would make for the best Skarner. Thanks for asking :) What do you think an ideal kit for Skarner would look like?

PredatoratorFeb 19, 20192 votes

{quoted}

<3<3<3<3

I personally would like to see more use of his tail and a new version of the "Crystal Venom" is where I took it:

Basically, my ideal kit for Skarner looks like this:

Revert Q to pre-juggernaut state. It is exactly what works with the ramp up movement speed and reinforces his DPS combat pattern.

E: Change the stun proc effect to mana restortation instead of bonus damage. This missing damage will be back in his Q revert, as it had base damage before the juggernaut rework.

New Passive: Crystal Venom- Every 6/5/4 (at levels 1/6/11) auto attack, Skarner strikes with his tail, dealing X% (A small and no ratio amount, so like, 2-5% maybe) of the targets max health as magic damage over 3 seconds. While poisoned, targets deal Y% less damage. (something moderate, since % values scale anyway, but with no other scaling, so like 10% reduced damage.) Would also be ok if it was reduced auto attack speed, but not a movespeed slow. He has a slow on his fracture ability and speed buffs on W and Q. But the poison should be something debilitating.

R: Only change to his R is that it would apply Crystal Venom to the victim on both initial and secondary damage procs.

This, in my opinion, would make for the best Skarner. Thanks for asking :) What do you think an ideal kit for Skarner would look like?

I'm happy that we're going to the same direction with the passive, i too like something like this because DoT with a light impair better captures skarner's scorpion nature. It also adds up to his dps pattern, more than adding burst. So this is one of the two directions i wanted to go for the vgu. I'll try to shrink it as much as possible.

Premise is that right now Skarner got these problems to be solved: passive; he lacks agency against skilled opponents, and relies too much on the team to do things for him; he doesn't fare well in lane; he can't specialize into nothing: he can go tanky, but even most fighters get tankier than him, he can go damage, but he got little to no way to extert that damage, and most fighters/juggernauts/even tanks spike up faster than him; too binded to sheen items.

for his Q, i had to go wild, i'd do with a xin zhao/sejuani move, where first move he uses his claws to damage and impair people in a cone, setting them up for his second strike, using his sting. i was thinking to split damage between impact damage and poison stack, proportions could vary (50/50, 30/70, etc). Core idea is that skarner should take down his opponents mainly using his poison, think of a melee cassiopeia

As for W i don't know really. Skarner needs tools to improve his survival, and tools to gapclose, and his way to gapclose currently is split between his W and E. His lore hints at him being able to heal by burrowing on the ground. underground healing could actually have a place in his kit, because scorpions also use burrows, but i'm afraid it overlaps with Rek'Sai too much. and making it an out of combat heal, could make it too close to garens. So if were to update his W, i'd probably go with an active/passive skill, where the passive could be the out of combat heal, and the active his usual shield, except shattering it could cause damage in a small AoE; Or the crystal shield could be a passive ala malphite, and the active could be a self sleep that restores an amount of his health; Or a self sleep that restores health and conceals skarner for the duration (He's underground); I'm fond to add that underground heal somehow, it's good from lore/and nature perspective, and a vgu seems the good enviroment to explore that. other option would be to use his massive claws to cover, blocking/getting reduced damage for himself/and his allies.

Not too sure about his E neither. Something good about Fracture is that gives Skarner a way to fare at further ranges than melee, and i'd like to preserve that. However nothing comes to mind right now. Probably something about crystal magic. It could be his actual way to gapclose. will edit if something comes to mind.

His R should stay roughly the same. Except I'd increase its range a bit, like to 350 ish units, so we can see that stinger lunging in and actually impaling someone.

ShahamutFeb 19, 20191 votes

I have suggested many rework ideas in the past, one of my suggestions was to replace skarner's shield with a self heal and a passive:

Crystaline Exoskeleton: Skarner's body is charged with Crystal Energy, granting him additional protection, vigor, and the ability to heal wounds.

Passive: Skarner gains increased Armor and Magic Resist

Active: Skarner gains a ramping movement speed buff for 5 seconds. During this time he regenerates health based on his missing HP.

For the increased raw stats and unbreakability of the speed buff, I lowered the duration by one second, and would probably increase its cooldown a bit as well. Not much though.

I would also like to note, that my only real disagreement with you at this point is that I like that Skarner is a good sheen user. Honestly, there are not very many champions who use Sheen all that well, and Skarner I think is the best (just his kit, not that his damage is good or anything XD)

PredatoratorFeb 20, 20191 votes

{quoted}

I have suggested many rework ideas in the past, one of my suggestions was to replace skarner's shield with a self heal and a passive:

Crystaline Exoskeleton: Skarner's body is charged with Crystal Energy, granting him additional protection, vigor, and the ability to heal wounds.

Passive: Skarner gains increased Armor and Magic Resist

Active: Skarner gains a ramping movement speed buff for 5 seconds. During this time he regenerates health based on his missing HP.

For the increased raw stats and unbreakability of the speed buff, I lowered the duration by one second, and would probably increase its cooldown a bit as well. Not much though.

I would also like to note, that my only real disagreement with you at this point is that I like that Skarner is a good sheen user. Honestly, there are not very many champions who use Sheen all that well, and Skarner I think is the best (just his kit, not that his damage is good or anything XD)

i can see that work.

Oh no don't get me wrong, Skarner is an excellent sheen user, he can proc the passive almost everytime it's up. And he got high base ad. However it's almost the only guaranteed way for skarner to deal damage, and right now building it seems not really optimal. skarner got the potential to build alot of stuff, and i'd like to see that enforced.

ShahamutFeb 21, 20192 votes

Ok, I can agree that it would be nice if he didnt HAVE to build it, but I would definitely want to preserve its being a core item on him. XD

PredatoratorFeb 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Ok, I can agree that it would be nice if he didnt HAVE to build it, but I would definitely want to preserve its being a core item on him. XD

That'd be ideal =)

ShahamutFeb 21, 20191 votes

Oh hey, ALSO:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCmcc5x1LGI_JFPYLANz1-w?view_as=subscriber

i stubbornly refuse to not play this champion XD Here is some top lane Skarner from me :)

I plan to get a nice PC sometime this year and then video quality should improve. Also, I think the new Conqueror is going to be REALLY good for our boy Skarner (specifically in lane)

PredatoratorFeb 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Oh hey, ALSO:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCmcc5x1LGI_JFPYLANz1-w?view_as=subscriber

i stubbornly refuse to not play this champion XD Here is some top lane Skarner from me :)

I plan to get a nice PC sometime this year and then video quality should improve. Also, I think the new Conqueror is going to be REALLY good for our boy Skarner (specifically in lane)

i think there's some potential too with skarner using new conqueror. but mind that you're giving away tankiness, and you'll be facing champions that use it better. that being said, it's definitely worth a try

ShahamutFeb 22, 20191 votes

Definitely crushed a Riven earlier today :)

I may put up a gameplay later.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplayJul 18, 2015764 comments

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 1, 2015156 comments

GameplayApr 1, 2016606 comments

GameplayDec 21, 2014456 comments

3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.

GameplaySep 17, 2015114 comments

When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?

GameplayNov 30, 2014634 comments

More by Predatorator

We finally got rid of Garens Villain mehcanic

GameplayOct 10, 201962 comments

What do you call a Kha'Zix jumping in a 1v5?

Memes & GamesFeb 3, 201941 comments

PSA: When a Skarner player pulls an enemy to You..

Memes & GamesDec 6, 201634 comments

Apparently finding ideas to make skins for Xerath is hard.

Concepts & CreationsJun 12, 201946 comments

You know what's particularly ironic about the latest Skarner rework?

GameplaySep 4, 201944 comments

for his VGU, Skarner needs to have the crab rave as his dance

Concepts & CreationsAug 8, 201923 comments