Theres a difference between "overpowered" and "unfun"

AlphaKappaPika··74 votes·7,473 views

There has been a LOT of complaints about Yasuo recently. Now, as a yas main, im trying to look at this objectively as possible without being biased, so bare with me. Anyways, back to the point, there are a lot of complaints about yasuo due to his relatively recent spike in popularity, the spike in popularity has a lot to do with people picking him up because he has been in a few worlds games recently, and then the people are getting hooked on playing him because he is a fun champ to play. However a lot of these threads are calling for nerfs and although I do think a little tweaking is needed, he really doesn't need a nerf.. He needs a rework... Currently, his kit is incredibly fun to play, however VERY unfun to play against. Although i RARELY lose to yasuos, simply because i've played a ridiculous amount of games with him. A lot of people don't know how to properly counter him. Personally, i think he has a lot of counter play, and people really need to learn how to counter him. However even with his counter play, playing against him can be summed up in one word... Annoying... Overall I think he DOES need a few minor nerfs, but overall he just needs a rework. I'd like to see less OP PLZ NERF threads, and more suggestions on how we can make his kit not so annoying to play against. I'd love to hear your thoughts on the matter.

216 Comments

TehNACHO58 votes

I'm of the opinion that he's a feast but no famine champion.

I mean, you need to admit, the fact that a design for a functioning melee carry exists that doesn't go into full famine mode if they fall behind at all is just short of actually amazing. The biggest problem though is that to counteract Yasuo's inability to go full famine, Yasuo shouldn't be able to go into hyper carry levels of power when only a little bit ahead.

Perhaps they only need to rework his critical chance passive as it, to be frank, takes way too much of his power budget to create a power curve that quite frankly doesn't make sense on Yasuo (he's a melee carry, who is supposed to be strong late. However the passive is a powerful midgame passive and a bad late game passive. It's such a weird passive on a melee carry).

AlphaKappaPika4 votes

{quoted}

I'm of the opinion that he's a feast but no famine champion.

I mean, you need to admit, the fact that a design for a functioning melee carry exists that doesn't go into full famine mode if they fall behind at all is just short of actually amazing. The biggest problem though is that to counteract Yasuo's inability to go full famine, Yasuo shouldn't be able to go into hyper carry levels of power when only a little bit ahead.

Perhaps they only need to rework his critical chance passive as it, to be frank, takes way too much of his power budget to create a power curve that quite frankly doesn't make sense on Yasuo (he's a melee carry, who is supposed to be strong late. However the passive is a powerful midgame passive and a bad late game passive. It's such a weird passive on a melee carry).

You have to remember that he is a hyper carry, so on a hyper carry there really isn't much famine if you fall behind. And that's really at the core of why he is so annoying to play against. I do think that the sheer spikes of his power are the reason why people think he has a strong early/mid game. but you have to remember he is strong levels 1-6, then falls off until he gets shiv. then a little bit after shiv he falls off again until he gets I.E. (or tri) then that's when his power basically stops spiking for the most part. What i'm trying to say is that he appears to have a very strong early to mid game, when really he just has crazy power spikes. (though his early game is strong, and if he gets ahead so is his midgame)

TehNACHO4 votes

And said spikes are caused by his critical strike passive.

We have two different perspectives on the matter but I assure you, I think we're both thinking the same thing.

Mast3rShake21 votes

{quoted}

You have to remember that he is a hyper carry, so on a hyper carry there really isn't much famine if you fall behind.

Actually, it is the opposite. If a hypercarry falls behind they are suppose to become basically useless otherwise why would you ever not pick a hypercarry? If you get fed you are unstoppable and if you don't you still stay strong and relevant...that isn't the case.

Stephenizgod15 votes

Well actually a Hyper-Carry is suppose to be Feast or Famine. The trade off for being able to decimate an entire team is that if you get shut down and stay shut down you cant do anything. Take old Fiora, she was true Feast or Famine, she gets 2 kills and she get tiamat or Rav Hydra and there is nothing you can do, she gets to the back line and erases them BUT if you shut her down in lane... well not much she could do. New Fiora is Op because True Damage is a stupid mechanic to have on so many champions...

The reason people complain so much about Yasuo and Vayne is because they have strong early-mid games and supreme late games, plus there is no falling behind. Once Vayne gets BotRK she is ready to 1v5, Yasuo gets shiv and suddenly he goes from 1/7 to 25/7, they are not Hyper Carries, they are Supreme Carries, they never truly fall off and they are always strong, even early game, just not at maximum capacity yet.

DorkunedAuras1 votes

new fiora will delete you 1v1 whether she's 1/10 or 10/1, it's really dumb

Valor Simulator2 votes

Thats simply not true i've been 1/10 as fiora before and trying to 1v1 a 10/1 anybody when your that far behind is not going to work out for you

Stephenizgod17 votes

The thing with Yasuo is his ability to scale massively with skill level and too be honest you don't really need all that much skill to be good with him, im not putting Yasuo mains down because there is a good amount of skill required but you dont need to be diamond level. Its the same issue with Lee but way worse, Lee is "hard" to play (although as long as you hit your abilities you can kill almost anyone thanks to his ridiculous base damage, tank, and survive-ability) but once you reach a certain amount of skill and mechanical ability, he is incredibly strong and versatile. Yasuo takes that to the next level, his kit gives him the ability to out play about 99% of all situations with correct timing, knowledge of the game, and mechanical skill. Basically when played at maximum potential, Yasuo is untouchable, unescape-able, and unchase-able all with the ability to deal massive amounts of damage with just 1 item (shiv).

This means he is a well designed champion to be honest, so why is this such a bad thing? Well it puts him in a tier above most other champions. Take Brand, a very strong mage with good damage, great poke, decent waveclear, and good peel if you are skilled at using it correctly. But even if Brand is great at using his abilities and dodging, there are still a lot of things he cant deal with, such as targeted hard CC, long range poke such as AA's, and instant burst. Yasuo on the other hand can block any targeted hard CC that is a projectile, easily dodge all skillshot, block long range poke, and has an easy to gain shield in case he cant dodge or block certain damage. The biggest problems with this are what he gains and yet loses nothing for. His shield he gains just by moving, something that all champs do. His double crit passive he gives nothing for and with only 2500 suddenly almost half his attacks are dealing double damage. He gives nothing for these, what little he does give for the rest of his kit, he more than makes up for with Wind Wall and his Dash.

Yasuo needs to stop gaining so much for nothing, that double crit passive needs a harsher drawback because whatever drawbacks are there are clearly not apparent. The shield is too strong for how often he can have it up, most mages can not reliably poke him enough while its down due to mana restraints, meanwhile he has no resource. His ults drawback was suppose to be "oh it requires them to be knocked up" but he has a long range line knock-up or a large AoE knock-up depending on how he wants to play it both of which are capable of knocking up multiple people. Yes it is decently easy to dodge but then there are just so many champions with knock-ups almost any team comp will have sufficient amount of knock-up to proc his ult. He just has so much going for him and very little against him other than the players skill.

There are two solutions:

  • Nerf or Rework Yasuo so he is better matched to the overall power of his fellow champions giving him a better balance in what he gives to what he gains, probably the easier of the two solutions but then Yasuo might not see as much play since most people play him for his ability to curbstomp most people. This would need to be done to several other champions as well.

  • Buff or Rework all other champions who are more balanced in how much they give for what they gain. Ultimately this will create balance through imbalance, but then this would turn this game even more into "who clicks the buttons faster!" and the amount of champions you would need to buff/rework is pretty massive.

Cloud Potato5 votes

This is a really good post. Instead of posting my own I'm gonna respond to this one:

The thing with Yasuo is his ability to scale massively with skill level and too be honest you don't really need all that much skill to be good with him, im not putting Yasuo mains down because there is a good amount of skill required but you dont need to be diamond level. Its the same issue with Lee but way worse, Lee is "hard" to play (although as long as you hit your abilities you can kill almost anyone thanks to his ridiculous base damage, tank, and survive-ability) but once you reach a certain amount of skill and mechanical ability, he is incredibly strong and versatile. Yasuo takes that to the next level, his kit gives him the ability to out play about 99% of all situations with correct timing, knowledge of the game, and mechanical skill. Basically when played at maximum potential, Yasuo is untouchable, unescape-able, and unchase-able all with the ability to deal massive amounts of damage with just 1 item (shiv).

Yasuo is still exploitable, but you are pretty much right about everything else, especially Shiv's ridiculous synergy. In fact, the one biggest problem with Yasuo's balance is Statikk Shiv:

Q is supposed to have counterplay until you buy Attack Speed. That way, by the time teamfighting starts to become common, Yasuo's damage counterplay goes down in order to compensate for his squishy meleeness against a team. But the other thing about Q is that its base damage is quite low. This way, a Yasuo who rushes Attack Speed will not deal very much damage per Q, compensating for the fact that it's much easier to land. These things combined prevents Yasuo from becoming a monster before 2 items: an AD item and an AS item.

The problem is obvious. Shiv gives a lot of damage while also giving the AS to lower Q's dodgeability. An easy way to remove this synergy is to remove the much-hated double Crit passive. While I'm convinced that his build will switch to Black Cleaver + Tiamat like every other melee AD champion buys now, he still does have Crit scaling on his Q, which might be enough to make Crit items viable.

This means he is a well designed champion to be honest, so why is this such a bad thing? Well it puts him in a tier above most other champions. Take Brand, a very strong mage with good damage, great poke, decent waveclear, and good peel if you are skilled at using it correctly. But even if Brand is great at using his abilities and dodging, there are still a lot of things he cant deal with, such as targeted hard CC, long range poke such as AA's, and instant burst. Yasuo on the other hand can block any targeted hard CC that is a projectile, easily dodge all skillshot, block long range poke, and has an easy to gain shield in case he cant dodge or block certain damage. The biggest problems with this are what he gains and yet loses nothing for. His shield he gains just by moving, something that all champs do. His double crit passive he gives nothing for and with only 2500 suddenly almost half his attacks are dealing double damage. He gives nothing for these, what little he does give for the rest of his kit, he more than makes up for with Wind Wall and his Dash.

I feel Yasuo's power comes from one specific place: the inherent weakness of being melee. Yasuo is given so much in order to survive because he has to deal with very punishing positioning issues against mid laners designed to be weak due to their range such as Annie. Against such champions his play pattern is quite intense for both sides. But then you put him against someone like Vel'Koz and suddenly Yasuo is a problem, because his tools to fight low counterplay mid laners are ridiculously overkill against normal ones.

Yasuo needs to stop gaining so much for nothing, that double crit passive needs a harsher drawback because whatever drawbacks are there are clearly not apparent. The shield is too strong for how often he can have it up, most mages can not reliably poke him enough while its down due to mana restraints, meanwhile he has no resource. His ults drawback was suppose to be "oh it requires them to be knocked up" but he has a long range line knock-up or a large AoE knock-up depending on how he wants to play it both of which are capable of knocking up multiple people. Yes it is decently easy to dodge but then there are just so many champions with knock-ups almost any team comp will have sufficient amount of knock-up to proc his ult. He just has so much going for him and very little against him other than the players skill.

There's also the fact that he's a squishy melee sustained damage dealer.

There are two solutions:

  • Nerf or Rework Yasuo so he is better matched to the overall power of his fellow champions giving him a better balance in what he gives to what he gains, probably the easier of the two solutions but then Yasuo might not see as much play since most people play him for his ability to curbstomp most people. This would need to be done to several other champions as well.

  • Buff or Rework all other champions who are more balanced in how much they give for what they gain. Ultimately this will create balance through imbalance, but then this would turn this game even more into "who clicks the buttons faster!" and the amount of champions you would need to buff/rework is pretty massive.

The problem with these solutions is that neither addresses the real issue with Yasuo's design: he is made to fight low counterplay champions in order to not be shut down for losing champion select, but when put against a healthy champion is incredibly oppressive. This is not just a problem with Yasuo himself, but also with champions whose balance is 'my range is low'. Champions such as LeBlanc, Ahri, Jayce, Twisted Fate, Lissandra, I could go on, are designed just fine with other ranged champions in mind, and melee burst damage champions are still able to beat them with careful play, but sustained damage melee champions stand absolutely no chance whatsoever. Counterplay through low range is simply not something that works well nor does it feel good for anyone.

ShatoSummoner1 votes

The real problem though, is that he isn't necessarily squishy. All he needs to be successful is shiv-infinity edge-last whisper. This leaves him to build boots of his choosing, and then two tank items as well if he wants to. He can go full squish with a life steal item and a triforce, but he can also build tank items and do more sustained damage over time.

Cloud Potato2 votes

By the time he can buy those items, he is no longer in lane. Teamfight wise I think he is perfectly fine for a melee champion with limited mobility. It's his laning that most people take issue with.

BattleOxe12 votes

Unfun to play against... Well, rework doesn't ensure it will be after it. I mean, look at fiora

4ManVotedAgainst12 votes

Make Yasuo require walking into little tornadoes that are scattered around the map in order to replenish his resource-bar. Make it a resource, make him required to touch those mini-tornadoes in order for him to be able to build up a shield, for him to be able to use his wall, for him to be able to dash to things, and treat that wind-resource a lot like a mana-bar.

AlphaKappaPika1 votes

{quoted}

Make Yasuo require walking into little tornadoes that are scattered around the map in order to replenish his resource-bar. Make it a resource, make him required to touch those mini-tornadoes in order for him to be able to build up a shield, for him to be able to use his wall, for him to be able to dash to things, and treat that wind-resource a lot like a mana-bar.

idk if thats a joke or not, but that would basically gut him... "whelp im out of wind, cant q, cant e, cant w, cant ult, and i dont have my shield." closest mini tornado is toplane, brb...

Keevalroy6 votes

Well...he is a wanderer isn't he? It may be a good starting point for a rework.

ZT Xperimentor5 votes

it'd be nice to see an assassin thrown into the dumpster for a change instead of tanks & supports.

C9 Scott Free 2 votes

Zed is garbage if the enemy isn't brain dead

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Zed requires positioning, timing, and management of energy, if he combos too quickly he's useless beyond auto attacks. Meanwhile yasou & katarina are resource-less with even lower cooldowns, making their strong kits abusable with any cdr items. Both of who have mobility, ignoring the positioning problem; spam-able abilities making timing a non-issue, and without restriction. Zed has been nerfed a few times already, rather see one of the more frustrating champions of the sort get abandoned on the shelf for once.

C9 Scott Free 2 votes

That was why I chose him. Zed is pretty garbo now and everything that counters him was in the game since Season 3. Even if you sneak into the back line to kill the ADC they just use QSS WomP

AbrahamBaconham2 votes

Or maybe we could just refrain from "dumpstering" champions at all?

ZT Xperimentor2 votes

I'm inclined to agree, and would love to see a wider variety of champions played. Unfortunately the meta-maniacs and ignorant sheep of the community dodge every game that their team doesn't line up with 'pro' games. It's disheartening that so many are unwilling to take chances over a video game, and it leaves ~1/3 of the list unplayed outside of aram. This is one of the reasons I hate the 'meta', it makes it stale from the lack of variability. Even if riot buffs unpopular champions or nerfs popular ones, there's always going to be a few dozen champs left behind by the community.

Yes riot has a sway in it, but it's more of the community's fault that there's abandoned champions. It's why I've asked for unplayed & underrated champions to get buffed instead of nerfing the popular picks; with more 'powerful' champions to choose from there'll be more diversity between games, but when they just nerf repeatedly it reduces the number of 'powerful' champs to use which leads to more of the same games. I put powerful in quotation as I'm referring to the general viewpoint of the public.

Count Zubat7 votes

I'd say he needs rework, but then I look at how Mordekaiser's rework that was supposed to make him healthy turned out to be, so I decided to just stfu and don't ask for anything. I just know we might get something worse.

LOL Spammer7 votes

I don't even have to read the post. I agree with the general idea. Too many people use the word 'unfun' in the same sentence as 'op' and it is annoying as hell mostly because who doesn't enjoy pwning the shit out of people as an op champion? +1

Mistress Akali5 votes

Sometimes "unfun" and "op" go hand-in-hand. To be honest, Id be completely fine with Yasuo if they made him have to hit his own q's and stop gaining an advantage just because they have a malphite.

Mistress Akali7 votes

Take away his ability to ult on all knockups and just his own. That's my bjggest issue with him. He has 2 ways, one melee and one ranged, to knockup a target on his own, but he gets a free ult even if he fails to use either. If you outplay a Yasuo in a teamfight by dodgjng or flashing his q, you shouldnt still be able to be punished by Yasuo just because Janna/Malphite/Xin/Trist/Vayne/Lee/Vi/ Cho/Sion/Thresh/Blitz/Fizz/Aatrox/Alistar/Azir/Braum/Gragas/Jarvan/Lulu/Naut and others exist. I only listed that many to illustrate that it isnt just a handful of champions that can make Yasuo very dangerous for free.

Drakylon7 votes

Flow should be a rage-like resource for Yasuo, not just a random shield he gets once in a while. He gains it by moving around, and his abilities all interact with it. For example:

  • Wind Wall spends some % of Yasuo's current Flow, and lingers for a duration scaling with the amount of Flow spent.
  • Steel Tempest's third Q spends some Flow to gain range based on the amount of Flow spent.
  • Sweeping Blade's damage is based on the amount of Flow Yasuo had when he cast it.
  • Last Breath spends all of Yasuo's Flow to grant him a shield based on the amount of flow used, upon landing.
C9 Scott Free 6 votes

I think the main problem is that he has an ass ton of mobility with the double Crit so there isn't a real way to stop him from being able to kill squisy unless he is trying to lose after a while unless you are playing an assassin

FastAsHeck6 votes

If you hate a champion, remember that "if you can't beat them, play them". You will learn what pisses off these champions the most, first hand. I have played a little bit of Yasuo and I no longer hate him, because I understand him better (I'm no main, just mastery 3, but it helped a lot).

Also, a great video to watch:

https://youtu.be/uNPktI93N6c?t=2m54s

I suggest this guide because it is actually funny but still teaches you. It expalins how to play Yasuo and how to fuck him up. (skip the first 3 minutes lmao)

YCitizenSnipsY5 votes

http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo

His popularity skyroketed long before worlds, he's been at roughly 15% since the 5.16 which is when the juggernaut changes first took place.

AlphaKappaPika2 votes

{quoted}

http://champion.gg/champion/Yasuo

His popularity skyroketed long before worlds, he's been at roughly 15% since the 5.16 which is when the juggernaut changes first took place.

not really the point im trying to make.. but good to know

YCitizenSnipsY7 votes

You blamed his FoTM and thus the complaints about him for being picked in worlds. That was wrong I merely corrected it. Other than that your post isn't something we have never seen before. Since his release people have complained about how unfun it is to lane against Yasuo, and there have been countless ideas thrown around as too what to change about him to make him bearable to play against. But like I've said in the past he belongs to a group with champions like Le Blanc, Lee Sin, and Ekko. People will always hate him no matter how bad he is.

IcyPepper5 votes

You know, Yasuo of right now reminds me of Katarina awhile back. But complaints about her has died down as every role gets more and more tools to deal with her, with them being optional so those who get stomped by her can learn from the experience.

Honestly, I think Riot needs to give us some anti-knock-up tools. Like a sort of anchor ability or item, that has an active (not a passive, jesus that would gut most knockup champions) since tenacity does not affect knockups.

Troll for Trump5 votes

His kit is just too Overloaded, especially for a champ with no resources. It is kinda similar to Riven in that regard. So yeah, strong, unfun to play against,overloaded kit, but fun to play as, and good champdesign. I like both of their lores(although they are kinda generic). Like most CertainlyT created champs(except the recent morde), wonderful concept, great lore, great design, but bad execution. The kits are just too dang strong.

Clown Apocalypse4 votes

Honestly he just jumps around so much that it's annoying. All that mobility with no cooldown to it. Other than that I don't think he's that bad. I actually played a few bot games the other day just so I could understand his kit and cooldowns and scaling a little better. As well as the range of his abilities. I think a lot of people who complain about champs never play them to see what their shortcomings are. I have everyone in the game, so when I start feeling like I'm losing a bunch to certain people.....I play a few games with that champ just to understand them better. Everybody has their counters plus, a lot of Yasuo's are so trigger happy with the wind wall that you can bait it and then attack them as soon as it drops. When played properly though......I hate his guts. Been known to take a tank mid to lane against him.

chriserit4 votes

personally i think there are only two way to go for yasuo:

  1. relegate him top lane where there are a lot of counter pick and would be healthy
  2. negate most of the mobility he has on his e.
thePandev3 votes

The reason why he's strong is because he's basically a hybrid. He will do just as much magic damage through item 3087 and his E than physical. And that early into the game there really isn't an item that can be built to provide MR + Armor and an offensive boost to compete with his damage output. And even then he has so many defensive utilities (W, Shield, E to dodge) that it's nearly impossible to take an early lead on him. His kit is designed to serve as an AD Anti Mage, but is applicable in nearly every situation and synergizes amazingly with any AoE knock up champ.

Slamurai Jack3 votes

Yasuo counters the other 4 most popular mid laners. Boom. Yasuo's win rate is higher for some reason. Nothing to see here. He's pretty much exactly the same as he was 6 months ago, and no one was complaining then. You already gutted him last year; Leave him alone. The playerbase simply getting better at the champion isn't justification to nerf it.

Chespin20133 votes

LOL woe and behold look who I find defending Yasuo's current state. I knew you were gonna do it. What a hypocrite you are LOL. You keep trying to make post about Morde should be gutted and for him to be left in the dirt and how people should just accept Morde's new identity and that people shouldn't give feedback on it. Yet here you are trying to justify how Yasuo is "healthy" for the game. Might want to read the patch notes during the last few months because he indeed had some changes to him and by no means is he gutted. If anything OP is right about Yasuo he is over tuned and is unhealthy for the game and needs a rework. Might need to get rid of that double standard there bubby.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

{quoted}

LOL woe and behold look who I find defending Yasuo's current state. I knew you were gonna do it. What a hypocrite you are LOL. You keep trying to make post about Morde should be gutted and for him to be left in the dirt and how people should just accept Morde's new identity and that people shouldn't give feedback on it. Yet here you are trying to justify how Yasuo is "healthy" for the game. Might want to read the patch notes during the last few months because he indeed had some changes to him and by no means is he gutted. If anything OP is right about Yasuo he is over tuned and is unhealthy for the game and needs a rework. Might need to get rid of that double standard there bubby.

I like new Morde and think he's relatively balanced, so I don't know wtf you're talking about. These boards are the ones crying about how OP and broken he is, not me. I'm not gonna argue against it anymore though; once the circlejerk is in full swing, you just have to wait it out before you can have an actual discussion again. It's the same with Yasuo. Once Riot gives us something else to complain about and the Yasuo hate boner goes limp, maybe then we can have a real discussion about it. But right now, discussing Yasuo is like trying to discuss Riven or Lee Sin on these boards: a complete waste of time.

AlphaKappaPika4 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0soEA1LJ,comment-id=001500000000,timestamp=2015-10-19T12:56:08.078+0000)

I like new Morde and think he's relatively balanced, so I don't know wtf you're talking about. These boards are the ones crying about how OP and broken he is, not me. I'm not gonna argue against it anymore though; once the circlejerk is in full swing, you just have to wait it out before you can have an actual discussion again. It's the same with Yasuo. Once Riot gives us something else to complain about and the Yasuo hate boner goes limp, maybe then we can have a real discussion about it. But right now, discussing Yasuo is like trying to discuss Riven or Lee Sin on these boards: a complete waste of time.

are you sure about that? so far I'm having a pretty intelligent discussion with the people who are commenting here. You will always have circle jerk people who are obnoxious but you can always ignore them. I hope as a fellow yasuo main you take the time to make a post and make an opinion on his current state.

Slamurai Jack1 votes

{quoted}

are you sure about that? so far I'm having a pretty intelligent discussion with the people who are commenting here. You will always have circle jerk people who are obnoxious but you can always ignore them. I hope as a fellow yasuo main you take the time to make a post and make an opinion on his current state.

You can have a discussion so long as you agree with the premise that Yasuo is an annoying, cancerous champion that should be reworked or gutted. State that you think Yasuo is fine and you just get heavily downvoted and called a moron.

AlphaKappaPika6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0soEA1LJ,comment-id=00150000000000010000,timestamp=2015-10-19T16:33:26.568+0000)

You can have a discussion so long as you agree with the premise that Yasuo is an annoying, cancerous champion that should be reworked or gutted. State that you think Yasuo is fine and you just get heavily downvoted and called a moron.

I would love to know why you think he is fine, i think he IS an annoying champion to play against, even if you know how to play against him. Downvotes are meaningless, as all they mean is that somebody doesn't agree with your opinion, and also if you look at the poles, a LOT of people say he is fine where he is, your not alone.

Slamurai Jack3 votes

Because despite his resourceless kit, he has very large and very obvious windows of power and vulnerability, his kit constantly forces interactions between him and his opponent, and Yasuo, despite people protestations, is fairly easy to outplay if you know what you're doing. I feel the same way about Riven and Lee Sin. By comparison, the kind of champs I dislike are ones like Shen Chogath Nasus who are encouraged to not interact with you, have kits that are larely impossible to outplay when used correctly, and just beat you to death with their ball of stats. I don't find Yasuo frustrating to play against unless the matchup is literally unwinnable for me, and very few of those unwinnable matchups exist despite what people think. I've never enjoyed playing against a Cho or Shen.

And yes, a lot of people agree with me but just don't post, and I can't honestly blame them. The circlejerk against Yasuo is strong and anyone who dares to defend him can expect a plethora for personal attacks and "corrections" from people who have never played Yasuo in their lives. You get tired of dealing with people like this all the time.

Voluug135 votes

I have played Yasuo since release and I can tell you that Midlane Yasuo is a gigantical problem to basically everyone not named Annie/Malzahar/Swain/Lissandra. He is unfun, he has low counterplay, no resource, and 1v1 he has always the upper hand because infinite dashes.

You are being extremely biased because there is no realistic counterplay to Riven, Yasuo or Lee Sin, just counterpick unless there is a gigantical skill gap. You can name imaginary situations where an ideal champion gets to counterplay them, but truth is few champions actually can do that.

A decent Yasuo will be basically invulnetable to a skillshot based champion. A decent Riven basically will stomp over you sooner or latter if you dont have the outrade potential, sustain, CC and/or tankyness to keep her off. Lee Sin is one of the safest champion in existance with one of the most biased risk/reward ratios until now, with a kit that allows him to choose every single one of his encounters.

You hate going against champions that counter your favorite champions, but at the end of the day champions like Annie, Cho and Shen are 100% necessary, otherwise there could be no one to keep on check those kind of champions like Yasuo. Champions that deny interaction are a necessity to deal with snowball champions, because snowball champions are designed to outrade everyone else. Not every match-up in the game is a reflex/latency battle, and that is something you need to admit sooner or latter.

You speak of unwinnable match-ups, however you fail to mention that Yasuo has no unwinnable matchups, even against his hardest counters, while he gets to hard counter several midlaners like Lux and Viktor.

A Prop Phone3 votes

His Q knock up is on too low of a CD, especially early.

In my opinion he can just cast way to many spells for a champion with no resources.

windwolf7773 votes

I think he's fine. But I think that they would recode windwall where if part of a wide skill shot for, example Nami ult is blocked a bit, but not more than half then what the wall blocks is removed, but not the entire thing. Maybe more than half and the entire thing is gone? That and something where aerial things like Nami bubble pass over it instead of, again, being deleted.

FistOfSharkiesha3 votes

He has too much utility for his unneeded double crit chance and 50% AR pen. Wind wall blocking ALL projectiles even a Nami Ult and his annoying shield that's always up make him toxic as fuck against most mid laners but easily shut down by bruisers. He's just an annoying champ that ruins mid lane for evveryone.

ZzEslIolZQ3 votes

Yasuo needs a complete rework. He's absolutely worthless in specific match ups, is anti fun in all match ups AND on top of all this if he gets even a bit ahead he becomes more faceroll than Katarina cause of the ridiculous certainlyT special of completely unneeded passives (in this case it's his double crit and 50% arpen).

RISE Shlack1233 votes

I think your post was very objective. And I agree in the fact that I don't think Yasuo is overpowered simply because I've played him several times and I'm terrible at him. But a good Yasuo will make the game very unfun to play, and it could use tweaks.

I think you summed it up best with:

However even with his counter play, playing against him can be summed up in one word... Annoying...

Zelphon3 votes

Change how his dash works so its not near infinite when multiple unites are around and he'd honestly be fine.

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