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PBE Context Please: Illaoi Q change

TTK Dreadnought··7 votes·3,839 views
5/19 PBE Update

I am aware that all things in the PBE can be changed and reverted.

Ability Changed: Tentacle Smash (Q) now increases Tentacle damage by 10/15/20/25/30% rather than increasing AD damage ratio by 0/10/20/30/40%

(NOTE: Tentacles start with 1.2%AD with 0 and 1 rank Q but increases by 0.1%AD per Q rank afterwards, maxing at 1.6%AD)

I was wondering what the context on this was. I know that her W was recently changed to deal more damage

Harsh Lesson (W) now deals damage equal to [4/4.5/5/5.5/6% (+2% per 100 AD)] of target's maximum health from [15/35/55/75/95 + 110% AD]

The W change is closer to a buff to W damage, and scales better throughout the game.

However, i assume this is a damage NERF on her tentacles, which is basically her entire kit, while already having a 50% damage reduction on overlapping tentacles past the first.

Illaoi is already in a tough spot and the change on the W is welcomed by not just me. However, nerfing the Q would actually be one of the worst things for Illaoi.

I would rather have the W be around the damage it does now early game but keep the scaling damage [2/2.5/3/3.5/4% (+2% per 100 AD)] and keep the Q and tentacle damage as is.

basically, Illaoi is an AOE/Multi fighter who uses tentacles around her as peripherals. However, the W changes increase her damage to a single target, while decreasing her AOE damage. I'm talking about this on here because while on the PBE boards there are a couple illaoi posts, i feel that most illaoi players/mains (im a main) need to give some input in the bigger pond

26 Comments

RiotRiot Sotere6 votes

Pretty sure this is a buff in almost every case. This isn't a compensation nerf for W, for instance.

HotChilly1 votes

Hey Sotere! Sorry, this is completely off topic but I believe it was you who spoke about changes to GP last time when he was getting nerfed. I was wondering if you guys have any thoughts as to what effects the trinity force changes on the pbe will have on GP and if you might give him a little help down the road after losing a lot of item synergy. Or if you guys feel like GP was in need for further nerfs, I would love any insight! =D

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0fdlPEMB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-05-19T22:25:35.725+0000)

Pretty sure this is a buff in almost every case. This isn't a compensation nerf for W, for instance.

yea, i didnt really read it well, so i stated that it was an assumption because of how i read it. if you could explain the difference, it some more that'd be great.

Jungle Lux God2 votes

I think how this is a difference is that the % increase would affect the base damage too in addition to the scaling, whereas the AD ratio increase would only affect the scaling.

Kiharon1 votes

I read it the same as Kamquats; it affects the base and the scaling.

Current: 10-180 (based on champ level) + 120-160% AD (based on Q level) New: (10-180 (based on champ level) + 120% AD) * (110-130%) (based on Q level)

Assuming you take 1 point at level 1 and max first,

L1 Current: 10 + 120% AD L1 New: 11 + 132% AD L1 difference: 1 + 12% AD (New always better)

L9 Current: 90 + 160% AD L9 New: 117 + 156% AD L9 difference: + 27 - 4% AD (New better until 675 AD)

L18 Current: 180 + 160% AD L18 New: 234 + 156% AD L18 difference: +54 - 4% AD (New better until 1350 AD)

So yeah, overall better.

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

{quoted}

I read it the same as Kamquats; it affects the base and the scaling.

Current: 10-180 (based on champ level) + 120-160% AD (based on Q level) New: (10-180 (based on champ level) + 120% AD) * (110-130%) (based on Q level)

Assuming you take 1 point at level 1 and max first,

L1 Current: 10 + 120% AD L1 New: 11 + 132% AD L1 difference: 1 + 12% AD (New always better)

L9 Current: 90 + 160% AD L9 New: 117 + 156% AD L9 difference: + 27 - 4% AD (New better until 675 AD)

L18 Current: 180 + 160% AD L18 New: 234 + 156% AD L18 difference: +54 - 4% AD (New better until 1350 AD)

So yeah, overall better.

Yea, my issue when I first read it though I was thinking that the AD scale was being completely changed (including the 120%)

Skias2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Riot Sotere,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0fdlPEMB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-05-19T22:25:35.725+0000)

Pretty sure this is a buff in almost every case. This isn't a compensation nerf for W, for instance.

It would be nice if killing the tentacles actually felt rewarding. They come up so incredibly fast that her ult seemingly always has the maximum amount. It makes for a very tired and annoying mini game.

Tychusfindlay9191 votes

{quoted}

It would be nice if killing the tentacles actually felt rewarding. They come up so incredibly fast that her ult seemingly always has the maximum amount. It makes for a very tired and annoying mini game.

Nasus I like the mini game, 1000 stacks her I come Nasus

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

{quoted}

Nasus I like the mini game, 1000 stacks her I come Nasus

It's funny because I've smashed every nasus I've run into so far. Get em stacks. But it's also a great opportunity to hit you :3

Regulas1 votes

Her ult directly makes tents...... as for why they seem to come up fast it's actually just because your not accounting for her next charge. If she hasn't made one in a bit then she'll have a charge waiting. But if you just clear them persistently you'll easily get rid of them, it's like a 20 second CD early on.

Skias1 votes

{quoted}

Her ult directly makes tents...... as for why they seem to come up fast it's actually just because your not accounting for her next charge. If she hasn't made one in a bit then she'll have a charge waiting. But if you just clear them persistently you'll easily get rid of them, it's like a 20 second CD early on.

I despise it. There is no point. They come up so quickly at one point that its a trial in futility.

Regulas1 votes

So quickly... at absolute fastest they come up after 12 seconds....

not to mention shes one of the most UP characters in the game.

Crett3 votes

Late game this is a 4% AD ratio decrease, and a 54 base damage increase. I'd say it's a buff. You'd need 1300 AD for the damage to start being weaker than before.

Lady Hammerlock1 votes

{quoted}

Late game this is a 4% AD ratio decrease, and a 54 base damage increase. I'd say it's a buff. You'd need 1300 AD for the damage to start being weaker than before.

Which unless you had Yi E passive+Jhin passive+Zed W passive would be nearly impossible to do so

TTK Dreadnought2 votes

Love the random down vote but no comment.

Sona Ping2 votes

Just skimmed but you seem to be incorrect on your assumption that it is a nerf on tentacles.

Tentacles deal 10 - 180 (based on level) (+ 120 / 130 / 140 / 150 / 160% AD).

Current Q levels give a percent AD bonus and this bonus increases per level the AD amount that is used to calculate the damage of the tentacle. Proposed Q level gives a percent bonus to all tentacle damage including said AD amounts.

Also note the proposed PBE change gives a bonus to tentacle damage starting from Ability Level 1 instead of Level 2 as on live.

Edit: Whoo! Ninja'd Sotere!

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0fdlPEMB,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-05-19T22:23:57.762+0000)

Just skimmed but you seem to be incorrect on your assumption that it is a nerf on tentacles.

Tentacles deal 10 - 180 (based on level) (+ 120 / 130 / 140 / 150 / 160% AD).

Current Q levels give a percent AD bonus and this bonus increases per level the AD amount that is used to calculate the damage of the tentacle. Proposed Q level gives a percent bonus to all tentacle damage including said AD amounts.

Also note the proposed PBE change gives a bonus to tentacle damage starting from Ability Level 1 instead of Level 2 as on live.

Thats where i got confused though. It mentions the bonus damage, but doesnt mention the AD ratios anymore. so does the AD ratio still get increased with Q but simply happens in the background now like through the passive?

Prophet of an Elder God: Tentacles deal 10 - 180 (based on level) (+ 120 / 130 / 140 / 150 / 160% AD based on Q rank). Tentacle Smash (Q): Increases Tentacle damage by 10/15/20/25/30%

Sona Ping2 votes

{quoted}

so does the AD ratio still get increased with Q but simply happens in the background now like through the passive?

No, I believe that has not been done. This is fine and is still a buff because, firstly, it's a stronger type of stat increase. Currently, it is percent AD increase while the proposed change is to scale the tentacles with a percent increase of both AD and base damage. Secondly, the passive increase starts with one ability point in Q instead of two so tentacle damage is unambiguously buffed at times when Q is rank one. This means that tentacles will be buffed, doing more damage levels 1-3 and will be greatly buffed for players with Illaoi builds that are leveling W or E first.

To give it a more concrete example and make it clearer with numbers:

Tentacle damage*:

Illaoi Level 1 Live: 10(+72) = 82 Damage PBE: 10(+72)+10% = 90 Damage

Level 3 Live: 30(+81) = 111 PBE: 30(+81)+10% = 122

Level 4 Live: 40(+86) = 126 (QL1) Live: 40(+93) = 133 (QL2) PBE: 40(+86)+15% = 144

Level 5 Live: 50(+91) = 141 (QL1) Live: 50(+106) = 156 (QL3) PBE: 50(+90)+20% = 168

*I am aware that calculating from stats gives slightly different results, numbers are given to match the rounded numbers found in tool-tips and combat text on live.

RespectPlus1 votes

Unless youre building full AD, this is a buff

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

{quoted}

Unless youre building full AD, this is a buff

item 3071 item 3111 item 3025 item 3083 item 3143 item 3065 sometimes item 3026 item 3748 instead of warmog

ReZisT Lust1 votes

aww that sucks i can go destroy mid lane no more :(

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

My team and I play with my illaoi as the ADC and our support as sona. My most recent game was 15:2:5 with a quad (almost Penta but sion ulted away with 100ish hp)) using my posted build

Spoofghoul1 votes

im pretty sure illaoi's damage isnt why she struggles

because its absurd and now it got overall buffed

she wills till suck because this doesnt fix her needs

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

{quoted}

im pretty sure illaoi's damage isnt why she struggles

because its absurd and now it got overall buffed

she wills till suck because this doesnt fix her needs

Personally I would like the spirit, when broken by damage to stun for 1sec rather than slow for 2. But if they walk out of it, it remains the 2sec slow. It's not hard CC which she didn't need in most cases from my experience, but it would help with counter stuns sometimes that end up resulting in your death in a normally favorable position

TTK Dreadnought1 votes

Okay, so thanks to the people who commented, i understand what the Q change mean now, as i had misread it originally like i thought.

Thanks everyone for the input. and now im excited to see ANOTHER Q change i see on surrender@20

"Tentacle Smash (Q) now slows all units hit for X% for 1.5 seconds."

THIS will be AMAZING if it goes through.

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