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Kindred: Early Game and Late Game

apple juıce·10/17/2015, 6:25:08 AM·2 votes·9,111 views

Kindred is a great champion. I think we can all agree that Kindred was designed to scale very nicely into the late game. The thing is, Kindred has a very decent early game for an amazing late game. She (they?) has no tradeoff for her late game. Kindred is has mobility, sustainability, damage, and the ability to stick to targets (via the slow).

Unless picking a major duelist and counter jungler (Lee Sin, Shyvanna, etc.) Kindred does not suffer too much from early game. Especially in lane, where Kindred is constantly moving around getting stacks on her W passive. In fact, I think the heal is the main problem. It heals a generous amount of health that does not even take much time to stack. She has the ability to trade and heal all the damage she received. Kindred needs sustain-reduction. I understand that the heal is meant to help Kindred sustain in the jungle, but that really only affects the first clear. After that, you can always buy a Ranger's Trailblazer.

Edit: tombdragon - "I'm wondering why her W heal isn't monster-exclusive. I can understand champions, but not minions..."

19 Comments

lolipopevelynn10/17/2015, 1:03:11 PM3 votes

{quoted}

Kindred is a great champion. I think we can all agree that Kindred was designed to scale very nicely into the late game. The thing is, Kindred has a very decent early game for an amazing late game. She (they?) has no tradeoff for her late game. Kindred is has mobility, sustainability, damage, and the ability to stick to targets (via the slow).

Unless picking a major duelist and counter jungler (Lee Sin, Shyvanna, etc.) Kindred does not suffer too much from early game. Especially in lane, where Kindred is constantly moving around getting stacks on her W passive. In fact, I think the heal is the main problem. It heals a generous amount of health that does not even take much time to stack. She has the ability to trade and heal all the damage she received. Kindred needs sustain-reduction. I understand that the heal is meant to help Kindred sustain in the jungle, but that really only affects the first clear. After that, you can always buy a Ranger's Trailblazer.

Edit: tombdragon - "I'm wondering why her W heal isn't monster-exclusive. I can understand champions, but not minions..."

no dude, her late game is extremly important. if you cant get stacks at a decent rate then she falls off very fast and very hard.

the only reason you think her early game is good is because of the fact that she is ranged and gets ganks off very easily with red buffs, however the trade off here is that xin, elise, kha, rengar, shaco, completely destroys her if they decide to counter jg you. you cant do anything except surrender your camps to them because if you try to kite and fight them they just jump on you. xin in particular is nasty.

as for the heal, its the only thing to keep her relevant if she wants to go the traditional bot lane ADC role. its a neccesity really. 500 range is abysmal for a bot lane carry, especially with jinx and trist running rampant. without that heal she will just be a crappier version of quin bot lane, which is a horrible thought. even quinn has more range than kindred...

Swollwonder10/17/2015, 6:27:54 AM3 votes

You ever played as kindred where you dont have stacks?

You have to literally tell someone you are going to kill them or go into the enemy jungle and take a camp they KNOW youre going to want to take.

There is counter play to why she has damage late game.

BlunterMonk10/17/2015, 6:36:51 AM2 votes

Yes Kindreds' self-sustain is pretty strong in lane. But I don't think it's strong enough to need a reduction. I would like to compare Their laning to Yasuos'. Mobile, shield, damage, the only way to beat him is timing, burst, and a good matchup. But They have way less burst damage and instant mobility. Zed, Yasuo, Talon, they can just move at light speed and bust you down. where as Kindred only has the little flip dodge and the slow.

Kindred seems like a less oppressive Vayne with more survivability.

In my eyes Kindred is pretty balanced

Earl Eulrich10/17/2015, 12:28:25 PM2 votes

oh well, she´s darn squishie and very short ranged - one wrong move and your dead. So I think the sustain is somewhat justified. She´s a little snowbally at times, but mostly in a good spot.

O Fallen Scholar10/17/2015, 12:37:28 PM2 votes

I think what defines Kindred is mind games aspect. I pretty much always gamble when I go for the mark in the enemy jungle. It could pay off or go badly. Reading enemy junglers moves is hard and challenging. Also enemy jungler has to read your moves constantly.

LaughingMan1110/17/2015, 12:17:10 PM1 votes

I personally thing nerfing the amount of sustain she has would always force you to take trailblazers, id be okay with making it jungle and champ exclusive. But i like having the option of taking Skirmishers or Stalkers over Trailblazers because they're a lot more helpful when you go in to gank.

Also, from what i've noticed Kindred's stacks dont really get overwhelming until you hit around 10, after that point its pretty dumb, and if you're a lane kindred getting your 6 stacks from just the enemy jungle every game, the enemy team really needs to work on their objective control.

Fiveofswords10/17/2015, 1:26:04 PM1 votes

kindreds late game actually seems terrible. kindreds early game is nothing special. kindred mobility is rather low. sustain as all adc know is only a useful anti poke farming tool...if you arent a tank it actually doesnt help duel because you die so fast. Kindred is fine as a jungle marksman, but your team might suffer a bit from lack of tankiness and staying power, which i suppose her ult is meant to compensate for a bit.

HappyHappy2310/17/2015, 6:52:26 AM1 votes

kindred snowballs pretty hard. She is bound to have 6 stacks or more end game

there isn't that much counter play

I have been watching, sneaky use her as an ADC and occasionally jungler

I have been watching IWD use her as a jungler

I have been watching doublelift use her occasionally as adc

I have been watching meteos use her

all of these players easily got 6 stack end game even when they were losing lane/ or being outdueled or pressure

so again, there is little counterplay to her having at least 6 stacks

I guess n approach would be to lower the wolf stacks at 2-3, and make the rest of the stacks go on baron or dragon.

it would make sense to put such a low cap on the wolf stacks for counter jungling. (laning phase isn't that long)

HappyHappy2310/17/2015, 6:53:28 AM1 votes

what is really oppressive is getting six stacks and rushing baron at its spawn time

its broke, her baron time is fast

IcyPepper10/17/2015, 6:57:20 AM1 votes

I'm wondering why her W heal isn't monster-exclusive. I can understand champions, but not minions...

Unlucky Number710/17/2015, 7:26:18 AM1 votes

wow. that would definitely confine her to the jungle. i approve.